Should we trade Aramis Ramirez?

[jmajew]

This Cubs team has many holes. The biggest holes I see are the defense, a consistent offense, and an extra starting pitcher. The first thing I propose to do is trade Aramis Ramirez. With this we have two options. One trade him to the Red Sox straight up for Manny Ramirez. The second, would be a three way deal. The Cubs would get Torri Hunter, the Angels Aramis Ramirez, and the twins would get Corey Patterson and prospects from the Angels. No matter which trade we would make we would resign Nomar to play third base. If it is to the Red Sox the cubs will need to sign a centerfielder who will be here for the year until Pie is ready. This player should be Kenny Lofton and if we can’t get him you play Pie. If it is the Hunter trade we need to sign a corner outfielder. The options are pretty slim. You have Reggie Sanders, Jacque Jones, Juan Encarnacion or Johnny Damon. I’d go with Encarnacion or Damon (Damon obviously my first choice). So we have two potential lineups. If the Red Sox deal you have Lofton CF, Walker 2B, Lee 1B, Manny LF, Nomar 3B, Murton RF, Barret C, Cedeno SS. If it is the three way deal you have Damon LF, Walker 2B, Nomar 3B, Lee 1B, Hunter CF, Murton RF, Barrett C, Cedeno SS. If you don’t get Damon you bat Cedeno first and put Encarnacion 7 or 8. The other option of all of these is to not trade Aramis. If you don’t trade Aramis there is a completely different situation. I think you would need to sign Lofton to play center and sign either Nomar or Reggie Sanders to play one of the corner outfield spots. Preferably I’d sign Nomar because I believe he belongs in Chicago and I think he will be a pretty good defensive outfielder. He has a good arm and he has the speed to cover ground in the field. In this scenario the lineup would be Lofton CF, Walker 2B, Nomar LF, Lee 1B, Ramirez 3B, Murton RF, Barrett C, and Cedeno SS. I think any of these potential lineups would be more consistent than our lineup was last year. Our defense in the Torri Hunter trade will be much improved and the offense will be most improved. This may be the best case scenario for our lineup. If we don’t make a trade I think our offense will naturally just be better because we will have a proven leadoff hitter in our lineup meaning Lee, Nomar, and Aramis will have more chances to drive in runs.

When it comes to the pitching staff I say we keep everyone. For the rotation we need 6 pitchers. I think we need to go out and sign a solid number three starter. The options are Jarrod Washburn, Jeff Weaver, and Matt Morris. I think the one who would fit our team the best would be Jarrod Washburn. But any of the three would be good. I think we could get Washburn at the cheapest also probably about 7 million a year. Our Rotation would be Zambrano, Prior, Washburn, Wood, and Maddux. You would have Rusch in the bullpen but with our injury history you will assume he will end up starting at some point. Our Bullpen would pretty much stay the same. I think we need to sign a setup man and that is it. I think we should sign either Octavio Dotel or Paul Quantrill. Dotel is my preference because we know he can be dominant. He did have surgery this past season but I think he is worth the risk. Just like Dempster was two years ago. Our bullpen would then be Dempster, Dotel, Williamson, Ohman, Wuertz, and Rusch. You have Novoa and Jerome Williams if needed also.

When it comes to our bench we resign Nefi Perez and Jose Macias. Our bench would then be Perez, Macias, Patterson/Pie, Hairston, Blanco, and Ben Grieve. You know with the way Dusty is everyone will get some playing time so there is no need to worry that Pie will regress in his time up here. With any of these lineups the Cubs payroll will be right around 95 million, which would be about the same as it was this year.

This, of course, is just one Cubs fan’s opinion; however, I truly do believe this would work. I think it may be time for the Cubs to buy a championship, just like the Marlins did in 1997.

[USSoccer]

Trading Aramis Ramirez would be pure idiocy. Pure idiocy. You'd trade him for Manny Ramirez, who's leaving him prime, and makes twice as much? There's not a giant difference in the production between the two-all you're doing is making a lateral move.

 

Your second trade is an even worse idea. Basically, it's Aramis for Torii Hunter? Hunter is a nonfactor on offense. That would be the worst trade in the history of sports.

 

Ramirez is going to win an MVP award sometime during the next 4 years. The day he got hurt, he led the Cubs in RBI and HR, and this was after an awful start to the season. With respect to Derrek Lee, Aramis is the better offensive player. You don't trade your best offensive player if you're trying to fix your offense.

 

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but trading Aramis is a truly terrible, godawful idea, unless you're getting a major impact player of similar age and production.

[CuseCubFan69]

This Cubs team has many holes. The biggest holes I see are the defense, a consistent offense, and an extra starting pitcher. The first thing I propose to do is trade Aramis Ramirez. With this we have two options. One trade him to the Red Sox straight up for Manny Ramirez. The second, would be a three way deal. The Cubs would get Torri Hunter, the Angels Aramis Ramirez, and the twins would get Corey Patterson and prospects from the Angels. No matter which trade we would make we would resign Nomar to play third base. If it is to the Red Sox the cubs will need to sign a centerfielder who will be here for the year until Pie is ready. This player should be Kenny Lofton and if we can’t get him you play Pie. If it is the Hunter trade we need to sign a corner outfielder. The options are pretty slim. You have Reggie Sanders, Jacque Jones, Juan Encarnacion or Johnny Damon. I’d go with Encarnacion or Damon (Damon obviously my first choice). So we have two potential lineups. If the Red Sox deal you have Lofton CF, Walker 2B, Lee 1B, Manny LF, Nomar 3B, Murton RF, Barret C, Cedeno SS. If it is the three way deal you have Damon LF, Walker 2B, Nomar 3B, Lee 1B, Hunter CF, Murton RF, Barrett C, Cedeno SS. If you don’t get Damon you bat Cedeno first and put Encarnacion 7 or 8. The other option of all of these is to not trade Aramis. If you don’t trade Aramis there is a completely different situation. I think you would need to sign Lofton to play center and sign either Nomar or Reggie Sanders to play one of the corner outfield spots. Preferably I’d sign Nomar because I believe he belongs in Chicago and I think he will be a pretty good defensive outfielder. He has a good arm and he has the speed to cover ground in the field. In this scenario the lineup would be Lofton CF, Walker 2B, Nomar LF, Lee 1B, Ramirez 3B, Murton RF, Barrett C, and Cedeno SS. I think any of these potential lineups would be more consistent than our lineup was last year. Our defense in the Torri Hunter trade will be much improved and the offense will be most improved. This may be the best case scenario for our lineup. If we don’t make a trade I think our offense will naturally just be better because we will have a proven leadoff hitter in our lineup meaning Lee, Nomar, and Aramis will have more chances to drive in runs.

When it comes to the pitching staff I say we keep everyone. For the rotation we need 6 pitchers. I think we need to go out and sign a solid number three starter. The options are Jarrod Washburn, Jeff Weaver, and Matt Morris. I think the one who would fit our team the best would be Jarrod Washburn. But any of the three would be good. I think we could get Washburn at the cheapest also probably about 7 million a year. Our Rotation would be Zambrano, Prior, Washburn, Wood, and Maddux. You would have Rusch in the bullpen but with our injury history you will assume he will end up starting at some point. Our Bullpen would pretty much stay the same. I think we need to sign a setup man and that is it. I think we should sign either Octavio Dotel or Paul Quantrill. Dotel is my preference because we know he can be dominant. He did have surgery this past season but I think he is worth the risk. Just like Dempster was two years ago. Our bullpen would then be Dempster, Dotel, Williamson, Ohman, Wuertz, and Rusch. You have Novoa and Jerome Williams if needed also.

When it comes to our bench we resign Nefi Perez and Jose Macias. Our bench would then be Perez, Macias, Patterson/Pie, Hairston, Blanco, and Ben Grieve. You know with the way Dusty is everyone will get some playing time so there is no need to worry that Pie will regress in his time up here. With any of these lineups the Cubs payroll will be right around 95 million, which would be about the same as it was this year.

This, of course, is just one Cubs fan’s opinion; however, I truly do believe this would work. I think it may be time for the Cubs to buy a championship, just like the Marlins did in 1997.

 

Welcome to the board!

 

I'd trade Ramirez for an impact player if he made the Cubs better and an even up trade for Manny IMO does not do that. I'd rather make a deal with the Yanks for ARod.

[USSoccer]

Oh yeah, Welcome to the forum! :D

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

There's not many deals I'd make for Ramirez. I certainly wouldn't trade him for Torii Hunter. I also wouldn't trade him for Manny unless the Red Sox send over Hanley Ramirez or eat a ton of Manny's salary as well.

 

I would consider trading him for Alex Rodriguez. I have to get a young impact player to even think about letting Aramis go anywhere.

[Andy]

So, I suppose by the end of the offseason, we'll have had people advocating trading EVERY important player on the team?

 

We've already had advocates for trading Lee and Ramirez, ESPN Radio has talked about trading Z. Aren't we a little insane for all this?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

So, I suppose by the end of the offseason, we'll have had people advocating trading EVERY important player on the team?

 

We've already had advocates for trading Lee and Ramirez, ESPN Radio has talked about trading Z. Aren't we a little insane for all this?

 

it depends on what you get in return. if someone wants to get robbed, yeah, i'd consider trading Ramirez, Lee, or Z.

[CuseCubFan69]

So, I suppose by the end of the offseason, we'll have had people advocating trading EVERY important player on the team?

 

We've already had advocates for trading Lee and Ramirez, ESPN Radio has talked about trading Z. Aren't we a little insane for all this?

 

I think it's wise to see what value you could get for any player on the roster. The trades that are proposed are for the players individually and I'm sure they are not made by grouping Lee, ARam and Z together. I see nothing wrong with finding out what the options may be.

[jmajew]

In that trade you would have to think the red sox would pay 5 million bucks a year of manny's deal. And Torri Hunter doesn't add anything to our offense, but when you add in his defense he is more valuable than Aramis. Hunter has averaged about 85 rbis the past 3 years not counting last year. Aramis is one of the worst defensive third basemen in baseball and he can't run. The only reason he was putting up such big numbers this year was because D. Lee was batting in front of him. Yes Aramis is valuable to out team but I think you can best help the team for next year by resigning nomar and making one of those trades. In the long run it is not the best deal but the cubs should be in the business of winning today. I'd be more than willing to trade away a possible all-star for the next 6 years for one World Series. I don't think I am alone in that sentiment.

[Backtobanks]

So, I suppose by the end of the offseason, we'll have had people advocating trading EVERY important player on the team?

 

We've already had advocates for trading Lee and Ramirez, ESPN Radio has talked about trading Z. Aren't we a little insane for all this?

 

I've said that every time I read one of these posts. The Cubs have enough holes without making a new hole to plug one of them. The Cubs have a ton of money to spend and lots of spare parts (Walker, Patterson, Rusch, Williams, Mitre, Welly, etc.) to fill the holes without trading Zambrano, Prior, Lee, Ramirez, or Pie.

[USSoccer]

In that trade you would have to think the red sox would pay 5 million bucks a year of manny's deal. And Torri Hunter doesn't add anything to our offense, but when you add in his defense he is more valuable than Aramis. Hunter has averaged about 85 rbis the past 3 years not counting last year. Aramis is one of the worst defensive third basemen in baseball and he can't run. The only reason he was putting up such big numbers this year was because D. Lee was batting in front of him. Yes Aramis is valuable to out team but I think you can best help the team for next year by resigning nomar and making one of those trades. In the long run it is not the best deal but the cubs should be in the business of winning today. I'd be more than willing to trade away a possible all-star for the next 6 years for one World Series. I don't think I am alone in that sentiment.

 

In response to the three bolded points-

 

CF defense will never outweigh what Aramis contributes to the offense. Ever. I'm sorry, but Hairston or even Corey in CF is just as good as having Hunter and no offense from CF and a signifigant drop from 3B. It would be a stupid move for a team with offensive issues to compund said offensive issues by dealing arguably their best offensive player for a defensive specialist at a position where we have a couple of acceptable defensive players at that position.

 

Second point, how then do you explain Aramis' stellar 2004? And his 2002? I'm sorry, Derrek had a nice year, a great year, but Aramis is just as good of a player. The Cubs had one of the best 3-4 combos in baseball last year; they need more OBP in front of those 2 guys; they don't need to jettison one of the two unless they are getting an impact player of similar age.

 

Your third bolded point is the way you end up with no titles in 98 years. You can't make shortsighted trades and expect to win a World Series.

[David]

In that trade you would have to think the red sox would pay 5 million bucks a year of manny's deal. And Torri Hunter doesn't add anything to our offense, but when you add in his defense he is more valuable than Aramis. Hunter has averaged about 85 rbis the past 3 years not counting last year. Aramis is one of the worst defensive third basemen in baseball and he can't run. The only reason he was putting up such big numbers this year was because D. Lee was batting in front of him. Yes Aramis is valuable to out team but I think you can best help the team for next year by resigning nomar and making one of those trades. In the long run it is not the best deal but the cubs should be in the business of winning today. I'd be more than willing to trade away a possible all-star for the next 6 years for one World Series. I don't think I am alone in that sentiment.

 

In response to the three bolded points-

 

CF defense will never outweigh what Aramis contributes to the offense. Ever. I'm sorry, but Hairston or even Corey in CF is just as good as having Hunter and no offense from CF and a signifigant drop from 3B. It would be a stupid move for a team with offensive issues to compund said offensive issues by dealing arguably their best offensive player for a defensive specialist at a position where we have a couple of acceptable defensive players at that position.

 

Second point, how then do you explain Aramis' stellar 2004? And his 2002? I'm sorry, Derrek had a nice year, a great year, but Aramis is just as good of a player. The Cubs had one of the best 3-4 combos in baseball last year; they need more OBP in front of those 2 guys; they don't need to jettison one of the two unless they are getting an impact player of similar age.

 

Your third bolded point is the way you end up with no titles in 98 years. You can't make shortsighted trades and expect to win a World Series.

 

Thank you for saying everything I was about to say before I said it. You put it all extremely well. :D

[Blizzau]

This Cubs team has many holes. The biggest holes I see are the defense, a consistent offense, and an extra starting pitcher. The first thing I propose to do is trade Aramis Ramirez. With this we have two options. One trade him to the Red Sox straight up for Manny Ramirez. The second, would be a three way deal. The Cubs would get Torri Hunter, the Angels Aramis Ramirez, and the twins would get Corey Patterson and prospects from the Angels. No matter which trade we would make we would resign Nomar to play third base. If it is to the Red Sox the cubs will need to sign a centerfielder who will be here for the year until Pie is ready. This player should be Kenny Lofton and if we can’t get him you play Pie. If it is the Hunter trade we need to sign a corner outfielder. The options are pretty slim. You have Reggie Sanders, Jacque Jones, Juan Encarnacion or Johnny Damon. I’d go with Encarnacion or Damon (Damon obviously my first choice). So we have two potential lineups. If the Red Sox deal you have Lofton CF, Walker 2B, Lee 1B, Manny LF, Nomar 3B, Murton RF, Barret C, Cedeno SS. If it is the three way deal you have Damon LF, Walker 2B, Nomar 3B, Lee 1B, Hunter CF, Murton RF, Barrett C, Cedeno SS. If you don’t get Damon you bat Cedeno first and put Encarnacion 7 or 8. The other option of all of these is to not trade Aramis. If you don’t trade Aramis there is a completely different situation. I think you would need to sign Lofton to play center and sign either Nomar or Reggie Sanders to play one of the corner outfield spots. Preferably I’d sign Nomar because I believe he belongs in Chicago and I think he will be a pretty good defensive outfielder. He has a good arm and he has the speed to cover ground in the field. In this scenario the lineup would be Lofton CF, Walker 2B, Nomar LF, Lee 1B, Ramirez 3B, Murton RF, Barrett C, and Cedeno SS. I think any of these potential lineups would be more consistent than our lineup was last year. Our defense in the Torri Hunter trade will be much improved and the offense will be most improved. This may be the best case scenario for our lineup. If we don’t make a trade I think our offense will naturally just be better because we will have a proven leadoff hitter in our lineup meaning Lee, Nomar, and Aramis will have more chances to drive in runs.

When it comes to the pitching staff I say we keep everyone. For the rotation we need 6 pitchers. I think we need to go out and sign a solid number three starter. The options are Jarrod Washburn, Jeff Weaver, and Matt Morris. I think the one who would fit our team the best would be Jarrod Washburn. But any of the three would be good. I think we could get Washburn at the cheapest also probably about 7 million a year. Our Rotation would be Zambrano, Prior, Washburn, Wood, and Maddux. You would have Rusch in the bullpen but with our injury history you will assume he will end up starting at some point. Our Bullpen would pretty much stay the same. I think we need to sign a setup man and that is it. I think we should sign either Octavio Dotel or Paul Quantrill. Dotel is my preference because we know he can be dominant. He did have surgery this past season but I think he is worth the risk. Just like Dempster was two years ago. Our bullpen would then be Dempster, Dotel, Williamson, Ohman, Wuertz, and Rusch. You have Novoa and Jerome Williams if needed also.

When it comes to our bench we resign Nefi Perez and Jose Macias. Our bench would then be Perez, Macias, Patterson/Pie, Hairston, Blanco, and Ben Grieve. You know with the way Dusty is everyone will get some playing time so there is no need to worry that Pie will regress in his time up here. With any of these lineups the Cubs payroll will be right around 95 million, which would be about the same as it was this year.

This, of course, is just one Cubs fan’s opinion; however, I truly do believe this would work. I think it may be time for the Cubs to buy a championship, just like the Marlins did in 1997.

 

Welcome to the forum! You presented some interesting ideas, and I'm sure you're having fun receiving feedback from your fellow Cubs fans. This is a great place to ponder potential moves by our favorite team!

 

I thought you might appreciate this tip about posting: Your post contained a lot of information. It would be helpful if you could break it up (paragraph-wise) for easier reading.

 

Again, welcome aboard!

[jmajew]

In 2001 Aramis had his best year he was with the Pirates...he had brian Giles batting in front of him that year and the next two seasons. In 2001 giles OBP was 400, 2002 450, 2003 430. Yes Aramis Ramirez is good offensively but he is not great. Replacing him with Nomar and someone to play the outfield it doesn't have to be Manny or Hunter. You also have to take into account that Aramis doesn't have the best OBP himself. Since 2001 it has been 350, 279, 314, 373, 358. In comparison to Manny who was 405, 450, 427, 397, 388. Yes it has gone down but every year is still better. Hunters are lower but not incredibly worse than Aramis. 306, 334, 312, 330, and 337. By getting Manny it would be creating more RBI opportunities for whoever bats behind him therefore helping our offense. Aramis is simply an RBI machine. NOmars OBP in taht same span is 352, 352, 345, 365, and 320. Just as good as Aramis. Is nomar that big of a drop off? Woulnd't having Nomar and Manny, Hunter, Pat Burrell, Bobby Abreu, be better? I don't like trading manny but sometimes the best way to help you team is trade away one of your best players for a player that would fit your team better. Teh cubs have two solid third baseman in Nomar and Aramis, if nomar resigns which he wants to. Aramis has more trade value than Nomar so he would be the one you would trade. I think the most important offensive stat is offensive is OBP.

 

In Response to the creating more holes idea. I do not believe this trade woudl be creating more holes. WEwould still have a good third basemen and gain an outfielder. How does that create a hole? If you traded them for prospects that would cause more holes. I love Aramis Ramirez but if we are to win it all you have to make tough decisions. Teh White Sox traded one of their best offensive players in Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik. The Red Sox traded Nomar.

[Andy]

In 2001 Aramis had his best year he was with the Pirates...he had brian Giles batting in front of him that year and the next two seasons. In 2001 giles OBP was 400, 2002 450, 2003 430. Yes Aramis Ramirez is good offensively but he is not great. Replacing him with Nomar and someone to play the outfield it doesn't have to be Manny or Hunter. You also have to take into account that Aramis doesn't have the best OBP himself. Since 2001 it has been 350, 279, 314, 373, 358. In comparison to Manny who was 405, 450, 427, 397, 388. Yes it has gone down but every year is still better. Hunters are lower but not incredibly worse than Aramis. 306, 334, 312, 330, and 337. By getting Manny it would be creating more RBI opportunities for whoever bats behind him therefore helping our offense. Aramis is simply an RBI machine. NOmars OBP in taht same span is 352, 352, 345, 365, and 320. Just as good as Aramis.

The last two years, particularly in 2005, Nomar's OBP is not even close to Aramis. Also, Aramis's OBP has been rising and he is still yet to enter his prime. Ramirez has the chance to become a truly special player, and there's no reason at all to trade great-hitting third basemen who haven't yet entered their prime.

[David]

In 2001 Aramis had his best year he was with the Pirates...he had brian Giles batting in front of him that year and the next two seasons. In 2001 giles OBP was 400, 2002 450, 2003 430. Yes Aramis Ramirez is good offensively but he is not great. Replacing him with Nomar and someone to play the outfield it doesn't have to be Manny or Hunter. You also have to take into account that Aramis doesn't have the best OBP himself. Since 2001 it has been 350, 279, 314, 373, 358. In comparison to Manny who was 405, 450, 427, 397, 388. Yes it has gone down but every year is still better. Hunters are lower but not incredibly worse than Aramis. 306, 334, 312, 330, and 337. By getting Manny it would be creating more RBI opportunities for whoever bats behind him therefore helping our offense. Aramis is simply an RBI machine. NOmars OBP in taht same span is 352, 352, 345, 365, and 320. Just as good as Aramis. Is nomar that big of a drop off? Woulnd't having Nomar and Manny, Hunter, Pat Burrell, Bobby Abreu, be better? I don't like trading manny but sometimes the best way to help you team is trade away one of your best players for a player that would fit your team better. Teh cubs have two solid third baseman in Nomar and Aramis, if nomar resigns which he wants to. Aramis has more trade value than Nomar so he would be the one you would trade. I think the most important offensive stat is offensive is OBP.

 

In Response to the creating more holes idea. I do not believe this trade woudl be creating more holes. WEwould still have a good third basemen and gain an outfielder. How does that create a hole? If you traded them for prospects that would cause more holes. I love Aramis Ramirez but if we are to win it all you have to make tough decisions. Teh White Sox traded one of their best offensive players in Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik. The Red Sox traded Nomar.

 

First of all, this may just be semantics, but a .900+ OPS isn't good, it's great. Aramis is GREAT offensively. Excellent even. And he's young. It would be stupid to trade him unless we got an absolute steal, and none of your proposals are that.

 

Secondly, Lee for Podsenik was not a good trade. The Sox won because of their pitching. Their success owes very little, if anything to that trade.

 

BTW, you know that big button three spots down from the 'L' key? Use it, please.

[USSoccer]

In 2001 Aramis had his best year he was with the Pirates...he had brian Giles batting in front of him that year and the next two seasons. In 2001 giles OBP was 400, 2002 450, 2003 430. Yes Aramis Ramirez is good offensively but he is not great. Replacing him with Nomar and someone to play the outfield it doesn't have to be Manny or Hunter. You also have to take into account that Aramis doesn't have the best OBP himself. Since 2001 it has been 350, 279, 314, 373, 358. In comparison to Manny who was 405, 450, 427, 397, 388. Yes it has gone down but every year is still better. Hunters are lower but not incredibly worse than Aramis. 306, 334, 312, 330, and 337. By getting Manny it would be creating more RBI opportunities for whoever bats behind him therefore helping our offense. Aramis is simply an RBI machine. NOmars OBP in taht same span is 352, 352, 345, 365, and 320. Just as good as Aramis. Is nomar that big of a drop off? Woulnd't having Nomar and Manny, Hunter, Pat Burrell, Bobby Abreu, be better? I don't like trading manny but sometimes the best way to help you team is trade away one of your best players for a player that would fit your team better. Teh cubs have two solid third baseman in Nomar and Aramis, if nomar resigns which he wants to. Aramis has more trade value than Nomar so he would be the one you would trade. I think the most important offensive stat is offensive is OBP.

 

In Response to the creating more holes idea. I do not believe this trade woudl be creating more holes. WEwould still have a good third basemen and gain an outfielder. How does that create a hole? If you traded them for prospects that would cause more holes. I love Aramis Ramirez but if we are to win it all you have to make tough decisions. Teh White Sox traded one of their best offensive players in Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik. The Red Sox traded Nomar.

 

Aramis is on the uphill part of his career. Nomar is clearly on the downside. He's a name only. He bears no resembalance to the batting champion he once was. His legs have gone out on him the last 2 seasons and he's missed over 50% of the games in the past 2 seasons. He's not an answer for the Cubs at 3B. There's no question to be answered at 3B. That question was answered in 2003. Nomar is no longer an elite player, Aramis is. You would be making your team worse by choosing him to play 3B.

 

You seem to be saying that the only avenue for the Cubs to improve the OF would be to make their infield vastly weaker. That's no formula for success. That's a recipie for disaster. If you want to improve the OF, there are tons of ways to do so without trading one of your 2 most valuable offensive players.

 

Also, citing the fact that the Red Sox and White Sox both traded players means nothing. The one thing both of those teams had in common was not some voodoo trade karma, but the fact that both teams got great pitching, and in the case of Boston, rode a great 1-2 punch to a title. We already have that 1-2 punch. Why screw with that? If you want to improve the offense, improve the OBP at the 1-2 spots, not at a spot where you're already getting great production that has a great chance of being spectacular. If you want to get an impact OF bat, there is one available in FA and 3 or 4 likely available via trades, but those trades would not involve one of your 5 core guys.

 

You have a farm system for a reason. If the Cubs want to trade for an OF they theoretcially could do it just with prospects, depending on the target and the length that Hendry is willing to go to make the deal.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

ARam may have a lower OBP, but he slugs like a champ. even Abreu can't touch him. if you put high OBP players in front of him, you're going to generate a lot of runs. his plate discipline wasn't too great this last year (looking at K/BB) but we're going to ride ARam in his prime, where his power more than makes up for lack of plate discipline.

 

Ramirez is capable of solid D (look at 2004). Injured hamstrings don't help, but that's fixable. Get him stretching and fielding a ton of balls in BP and he's good to go.

[USSoccer]

I also would like to point out that Torii Hunter's OPS+ sucks over the past 3 seasons, and he makes $10.75m in 2006. That roughly as much as Aramis would make for a signifigant drop in production.

 

Manny's peripheral numbers are also declining. They're still going to be really good for the next 2-3 years, but he's not worth Aramis.

 

Short of ARod, Tejada, Pujols and Johan Santana, I don't trade Aramis. Concened about his conditioning? That's why the Cubs are sending a trainer to work with him all winter.

 

Aramis is one of the last things we as fans should worry about. He is going to win an MVP in the next 4 years. I promise you.

[littleburr24]

What if Nomar swallowed his pride and took a bench role for the Cubs? He can play both 3rd and SS. This is definitely a pipe dream, but it's not impossible, just highly improbable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I really don't want to see Nomar go.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

What if Nomar swallowed his pride and took a bench role for the Cubs? He can play both 3rd and SS. This is definitely a pipe dream, but it's not impossible, just highly improbable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I really don't want to see Nomar go.

 

he doesn't just swallow his pride, he throws away millions of dollars. you don't pay 3+ million for a bench player plus incentives (that he'll never reach off the bench).

[jyoung55]

In that massive post, I think the end of it was lost. He suggested having Neifi AND Macias on the bench. No thank you. Thats almost as bad as the trading Aramis point. :shock: Its official our new poster is Dusty Baker.

[USSoccer]

What if Nomar swallowed his pride and took a bench role for the Cubs? He can play both 3rd and SS. This is definitely a pipe dream, but it's not impossible, just highly improbable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I really don't want to see Nomar go.

 

he doesn't just swallow his pride, he throws away millions of dollars. you don't pay 3+ million for a bench player plus incentives (that he'll never reach off the bench).

 

That's the only role I'd want Nomar back in. It would pretty much tank the notion of bring Neifi back, plus I think that's the only role Nomar could contribute for a full season in.

[RynoRules]

So, I suppose by the end of the offseason, we'll have had people advocating trading EVERY important player on the team?

 

We've already had advocates for trading Lee and Ramirez, ESPN Radio has talked about trading Z. Aren't we a little insane for all this?

 

it depends on what you get in return. if someone wants to get robbed, yeah, i'd consider trading Ramirez, Lee, or Z.

 

He gets the least national attention, but Z's probably the most valuable of the three.

[USSoccer]

So, I suppose by the end of the offseason, we'll have had people advocating trading EVERY important player on the team?

 

We've already had advocates for trading Lee and Ramirez, ESPN Radio has talked about trading Z. Aren't we a little insane for all this?

 

it depends on what you get in return. if someone wants to get robbed, yeah, i'd consider trading Ramirez, Lee, or Z.

 

He gets the least national attention, but Z's probably the most valuable of the three.

 

I think you might be right. I'd put the top 5 as:

 

Z

Prior

Ramirez

Lee

Barrett