11/05 College Football

[Andy]

Truth be told, Notre Dame's "awesomely hard" schedule this year had been somewhat of a bust:

 

PITT: 4-5
MICH: 6-3
MSU:  5-4
WASH: 1-8
PUR:  3-6
USC:  9-0
BYU:  5-4
TENN: 3-5
NAVY: 5-3
SYR:  1-7
STAN: 4-4

TOTAL: 46-49

 

Not terribly impressive. They deserve what now?

You hate on ND for not joining a conference and then reel off a list of teams (like MSU, Tennessee, Michigan and Stanford) who have compiled their losses mainly against very good teams in their conference. Why am I not surprised?

 

Notre Dame has played an invincible team in USC, a very good team in Michigan, a good team in MSU, a good team that fell victim to a murderous schedule in Tennessee. Pitt and Stanford are both teams that aren't great but aren't terrible either, and Notre Dame sent Purdue's season into a tailspin by smoking them. Syracuse and Washington, IMO are the only just plain terrible teams Notre Dame has played/will play, as opposed to most big-conference teams who made sure to schedule at least 2 terrible teams out of conference while also getting to play Indiana/Illinois-caliber teams. (See Baylor, KSU and Oklahoma State in the Big 12, Duke in the ACC, both Washington schools in the Pac-10, Kentucky, Arkansas and Mississippi St in the SEC, the aforementioned IU and Illinois, etc.)

Edited November 6, 2005 by Andy

[Derwood]

I don't hate ND for not being in a conference. I just question their BCS bowl credentials.

 

I was a PSU fan for years during their "independent" years. They had great schedules with Miami, Texas, Alabama, ND, USC, etc. all in the same year. But I'm very satisfied with their choice to join the Big 10.

 

ND is just greedy. They don't want to split bowl or TV revenue.

 

They can hide behind "preserving their rivalries" all they want, but how awesome would this schedule be? :

 

BC

STAN

USC

TENN

PSU

IOWA

MICH

MSU

PUR

OSU

NU

MINN

 

play a 12 game schedule, keep USC, maybe rotate ou Stanford, Tennessee and BC for BYU, PITT or Army each year.

 

Then you have no controversy about whether the Irish deserve to go to BCS games or not

[Andy]

I don't hate ND for not being in a conference. I just question their BCS bowl credentials.

 

I was a PSU fan for years during their "independent" years. They had great schedules with Miami, Texas, Alabama, ND, USC, etc. all in the same year. But I'm very satisfied with their choice to join the Big 10.

 

ND is just greedy. They don't want to split bowl or TV revenue.

 

They can hide behind "preserving their rivalries" all they want, but how awesome would this schedule be? :

 

BC

STAN

USC

TENN

PSU

IOWA

MICH

MSU

PUR

OSU

NU

MINN

 

play a 12 game schedule, keep USC, maybe rotate ou Stanford, Tennessee and BC for BYU, PITT or Army each year.

 

Then you have no controversy about whether the Irish deserve to go to BCS games or not

ND recently chose to discontinue their games with BC due to the juvenile behavior of Eagle players and fans. And you've conveniently left off IU and Illinois. If Notre Dame joined the Big 10 and then ran the table in a bad year for the conference (like last year, when PSU, MSU, IU, and Illinois were all bad and there was no more than one or two real good teams in the conference), then what would the complaint be?

 

And if you were ND, would you join a conference when you can make boatloads of money without doing so? Seriously, put yourself in other people's shoes. If I had a network football deal then what could possibly be the benefit of joining a conference?

[adamb0719]

Truth be told, Notre Dame's "awesomely hard" schedule this year had been somewhat of a bust:

 

PITT: 4-5
MICH: 6-3
MSU:  5-4
WASH: 1-8
PUR:  3-6
USC:  9-0
BYU:  5-4
TENN: 3-5
NAVY: 5-3
SYR:  1-7
STAN: 4-4

TOTAL: 46-49

 

Not terribly impressive. They deserve what now?

 

You can't blame ND for their schedule. They did not shy away from teams. This year it turned out that they did not have a schedule as tough as everyone thought. Not their fault.

 

It not like they schedule weak opponents like C Florida, Cinncinatti, C Michigan or many other weak non-conference games many top 10 teams play. Their schedule has the potential to be just as tough as any BCS conference team.

 

Penn State did have some weak non-conference teams. But to say that those three are any weaker than Army, Navy or Syracuse isn't fair.

 

And no, it isn't ND's fault that their opponents ended up being crappy. But it should certainly count against them in the computer rankings. A second (or even third) place SEC or PAC-10 team will have played more ranked opponents than ND.

 

Where is Army coming from? ND does not play Army. Also seeing as how they are 22 in the computer rankings I think their schedule does go against them.

I know not everyone is a fan of ND. However I think that they are a deserving as any other team for a BCS game. Cpatt listed a bunch of teams that deserve BCS games. They all do deserve a BCS game. Not every team is going to make it. ND will get picked because of their fan base. It does not mean they are more deserving than any other team. Every year teams get screwed by the BCS. It is a crap system, but I don't think anyone can fault ND for getting into a bowl game when they only have 2 losses, since that is the agreement ND has with the BCS. The system does not change year to year. If they meet the requirements they will go. If anything someone should fault the BCS, not the school.

It looks like ND is going to play PSU if they both win out. If ND does not deserve that game then PSU should have no trouble winning the Fiesta Bowl. For a PSU fan I would think you would be happy that they are assured a victory against a lesser team in their bowl game.

 

 

 

The new USA poll just came out

1. USC (56) 9-0 1,544

2. Texas (6) 9-0 1,494

3. Alabama 9-0 1,398

4. Miami 7-1 1,385

5. LSU 7-1 1,283

6. Penn State 9-1 1,139

7. Notre Dame 6-2 1,124

8. Virginia Tech 8-1 1,116

9. Georgia 7-1 1,093

10. Ohio State 7-2 962

11. Oregon 8-1 919

12. Florida 7-2 754

13. Texas Tech 8-1 745

14. UCLA 8-1 744

15. West Virginia 7-1 710

16. Florida State 7-2 667

17. Auburn 7-2 619

18. TCU 9-1 491

19. Wisconsin 8-2 385

20. Fresno State 7-1 360

21. Colorado 7-2 302

22. Michigan 6-3 275

23. Louisville 6-2 242

24. Georgia Tech 6-2 117

25. Boston College 6-3 56

[davecubsfan]

From a UT fan, my congrats go out to Irish fans and the team. Nice game fellas!!!! I hate that this is the last year for a while we get to play you guys as I really feel it won't be too long till you're challenging for the NC again. Anyway, congratulations!!!

[stitchface]

they don't have to follow the rankings for at-large bids. notre dame has their own set of rules to qualify - I forget exactly what they are but they have to have a certain number of wins and be ranked so high (or maybe bcs standings so high I don't remember). The point is if Notre Dame is close to a BCS, get them in to make money. And that's not meant as a slam on notre dame so much as the system. greed pre-empts any notion of who is deserving.

[Derwood]

If PSU plays ND in the Fiesta, that would be fun. I think it would be a very good game. Plus it's a warmup for playing in the regular season next year!

[adamb0719]

From a UT fan, my congrats go out to Irish fans and the team. Nice game fellas!!!! I hate that this is the last year for a while we get to play you guys as I really feel it won't be too long till you're challenging for the NC again. Anyway, congratulations!!!

 

I really believe UT is a lot better than their record shows. Great game yesterday. I really thought ND was going to lose this one.

[Andy]

they don't have to follow the rankings for at-large bids. notre dame has their own set of rules to qualify - I forget exactly what they are but they have to have a certain number of wins and be ranked so high (or maybe bcs standings so high I don't remember). The point is if Notre Dame is close to a BCS, get them in to make money. And that's not meant as a slam on notre dame so much as the system. greed pre-empts any notion of who is deserving.

ND has to have nine wins and be top-12. The vast majority of the time, ND's schedule is difficult enough so that if they meet those requirements, there's no controversy because everyone will feel them deserving. This year happens to be an exception thanks to all those teams that were supposed to be good suddenly struggling.

 

Just for reference, ND was BCS-eligible in 2002 (and, I think, 1998) and was not selected for an at-large berth, so it's not always a guaranteed shoo-in.

[adamb0719]

they don't have to follow the rankings for at-large bids. notre dame has their own set of rules to qualify - I forget exactly what they are but they have to have a certain number of wins and be ranked so high (or maybe bcs standings so high I don't remember). The point is if Notre Dame is close to a BCS, get them in to make money. And that's not meant as a slam on notre dame so much as the system. greed pre-empts any notion of who is deserving.

 

If ND is in the BCS top twelve with 2 losses or less they are eligible, but not guaranteed a spot. However if a non BCS team is in the top 6 and gets an at-large, ND is guaranteed an at-large bid if they qualify.

 

EDIT: I think nistops is right, nine wins not two losses. This year it just so happens the 9 wins=2 losses or less. A few years ago they had to petition to get an early game against Maryland to count so they would be BCS eligible.

Edited November 6, 2005 by adamb0719

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Okay, now I'm confused. If the BCS picks the team that's most popular, then why do the BCS rankings exist? Are they not obligated to give the at large bid to the team with the best BCS score?

 

My main point is revolving around how much respect ND is getting in the polls. Look at the one loss teams that are ranked below Notre Dame. Georgia, Virginia Tech, how in the world do you justify that? UCLA, Oregon, and to a lesser extent Texas Tech are unjustly below too. Never mind all the two loss teams that have a better profile than ND(OSU, Florida, FSU, Wisconsin, maybe even Auburn). Like I said before, this is a lot like the Cal situation last year. They played USC close, and everyone thinks they're BCS caliber. Except this year they lost a second game at home to a team that's fighting for bowl eligibility. But since everyone loves/respects Notre Dame, they're top 10 material.

[stitchface]

rankings are based on reputation. this is why preseason rankings should not exist. teams like ND, Michigan, Nebraska are always rushed into the rankings if they start out low. they get the benefit of the doubt based on history and fanbase.

[Andy]

rankings are based on reputation. this is why preseason rankings should not exist. teams like ND, Michigan, Nebraska are always rushed into the rankings if they start out low. they get the benefit of the doubt based on history and fanbase.

Kirk Herbstreit made an excellent point on this on SportsCenter. He said that the Harris Poll, which didn't start till October, had basically the same top 5 as everyone else. The fact is, even if you start rankings later, you're still going to get the same bias.

[adamb0719]

Okay, now I'm confused. If the BCS picks the team that's most popular, then why do the BCS rankings exist? Are they not obligated to give the at large bid to the team with the best BCS score?

 

My main point is revolving around how much respect ND is getting in the polls. Look at the one loss teams that are ranked below Notre Dame. Georgia, Virginia Tech, how in the world do you justify that? UCLA, Oregon, and to a lesser extent Texas Tech are unjustly below too. Never mind all the two loss teams that have a better profile than ND(OSU, Florida, FSU, Wisconsin, maybe even Auburn). Like I said before, this is a lot like the Cal situation last year. They played USC close, and everyone thinks they're BCS caliber. Except this year they lost a second game at home to a team that's fighting for bowl eligibility. But since everyone loves/respects Notre Dame, they're top 10 material.

 

Not everyone loves ND. Before this year everyone was saying how irrelevant they were to college football. The one loss teams below ND have to do with the fact that the system is flawed, to be quite honest. There will never be agreement on the polls, ever. However it is not just because ND played USC close. They are a good team. I know you watch the games so you should know that. They are not more deserving than any other team with 1 loss. For me to say that they are would be ignorant. However since the polls are a joke for the most part they are in the top 10. I personally feel they are a top 10 team, but I can see why someone would not feel that way. And no, the BCS is not obligated to give the team with the best score a birth. As long as a team meets the requirements they could be in.

Do you think OSU and Florida deserve to be where they are in the polls?

 

 

Derwood: I would love a ND/PSU bowl game. I am also very excited for the teams to play each other again for the next few years. I really enjoy having PSU on the schedule.

[stitchface]

that may be, but nonetheless, miami is where it is because they started ranked high and lost early. there is no reason to think they are better than other one loss teams except for where they started.

[Andy]

that may be, but nonetheless, miami is where it is because they started ranked high and lost early. there is no reason to think they are better than other one loss teams except for where they started.

Well, except that they just pasted the living crap out of an unbeaten Va Tech team that looked to have a stronger profile than Texas up to that point, and they did it on the road. Other than that I wholeheartedly agree.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And no, the BCS is not obligated to give the team with the best score a birth. As long as a team meets the requirements they could be in.

Do you think OSU and Florida deserve to be where they are in the polls?

 

Wow, that's ridiculous(best score thing).

 

I think OSU and Florida are in a pretty appropriate spot in the polls, I wouldn't argue much either way if they were higher or lower. Take OSU for example. They lost a tight game to an undefeated powerhouse at home(much like ND), and a tight game to another top 10 team on the road(much different than ND). The record of the teams OSU has beaten is one game under .500, ND's is 13 games under, neither have a real high profile win. Now Florida, two road losses to top ten teams, one close, one not. The record of teams they've beaten is 5 games under .500, and they have a high profile win, handing Georgia their only loss. If ND is BCS/Top 10 caliber, then I think you have to put OSU and Florida in there, and probably in front of them(not saying you are saying the opposite).

[CuseCubFan69]

Okay, now I'm confused. If the BCS picks the team that's most popular, then why do the BCS rankings exist? Are they not obligated to give the at large bid to the team with the best BCS score?

 

My main point is revolving around how much respect ND is getting in the polls. Look at the one loss teams that are ranked below Notre Dame. Georgia, Virginia Tech, how in the world do you justify that? UCLA, Oregon, and to a lesser extent Texas Tech are unjustly below too. Never mind all the two loss teams that have a better profile than ND(OSU, Florida, FSU, Wisconsin, maybe even Auburn). Like I said before, this is a lot like the Cal situation last year. They played USC close, and everyone thinks they're BCS caliber. Except this year they lost a second game at home to a team that's fighting for bowl eligibility. But since everyone loves/respects Notre Dame, they're top 10 material.

 

Hone$tly...you're confu$ed?

 

This a thing that really bugged me. ESPN gave the final scores for all the top 25 teams and then the rest. The only time they put up stats was for ND and Quinn.

[Andy]

Okay, now I'm confused. If the BCS picks the team that's most popular, then why do the BCS rankings exist? Are they not obligated to give the at large bid to the team with the best BCS score?

 

My main point is revolving around how much respect ND is getting in the polls. Look at the one loss teams that are ranked below Notre Dame. Georgia, Virginia Tech, how in the world do you justify that? UCLA, Oregon, and to a lesser extent Texas Tech are unjustly below too. Never mind all the two loss teams that have a better profile than ND(OSU, Florida, FSU, Wisconsin, maybe even Auburn). Like I said before, this is a lot like the Cal situation last year. They played USC close, and everyone thinks they're BCS caliber. Except this year they lost a second game at home to a team that's fighting for bowl eligibility. But since everyone loves/respects Notre Dame, they're top 10 material.

 

Hone$tly...you're confu$ed?

 

This a thing that really bugged me. ESPN gave the final scores for all the top 25 teams and then the rest. The only time they put up stats was for ND and Quinn.

When did you see that? I saw stats for Vince Young, Brad Smith, and a few others on College Gameday Final.

[Derwood]

Okay, now I'm confused. If the BCS picks the team that's most popular, then why do the BCS rankings exist? Are they not obligated to give the at large bid to the team with the best BCS score?

 

My main point is revolving around how much respect ND is getting in the polls. Look at the one loss teams that are ranked below Notre Dame. Georgia, Virginia Tech, how in the world do you justify that? UCLA, Oregon, and to a lesser extent Texas Tech are unjustly below too. Never mind all the two loss teams that have a better profile than ND(OSU, Florida, FSU, Wisconsin, maybe even Auburn). Like I said before, this is a lot like the Cal situation last year. They played USC close, and everyone thinks they're BCS caliber. Except this year they lost a second game at home to a team that's fighting for bowl eligibility. But since everyone loves/respects Notre Dame, they're top 10 material.

 

Hone$tly...you're confu$ed?

 

This a thing that really bugged me. ESPN gave the final scores for all the top 25 teams and then the rest. The only time they put up stats was for ND and Quinn.

When did you see that? I saw stats for Vince Young, Brad Smith, and a few others on College Gameday Final.

 

Yeah, that's not true. They DID run Calhoun's miserable day for WISC as the stat for the PSU/WISC game instead of Robinson's great day (lame)

[stitchface]

that may be, but nonetheless, miami is where it is because they started ranked high and lost early. there is no reason to think they are better than other one loss teams except for where they started.

Well, except that they just pasted the living crap out of an unbeaten Va Tech team that looked to have a stronger profile than Texas up to that point, and they did it on the road. Other than that I wholeheartedly agree.

 

Who has VATEch beaten? I've never been too impressed with them. The Miami game was just confirmation that they aren't a top team.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

that may be, but nonetheless, miami is where it is because they started ranked high and lost early. there is no reason to think they are better than other one loss teams except for where they started.

Well, except that they just pasted the living crap out of an unbeaten Va Tech team that looked to have a stronger profile than Texas up to that point, and they did it on the road. Other than that I wholeheartedly agree.

 

Who has VATEch beaten? I've never been too impressed with them. The Miami game was just confirmation that they aren't a top team.

 

Georgia Tech and BC at home look like the biggest wins to VT's credit.

[Andy]

Looks like Penn State jumped ND in this week's AP poll - and deservedly so. Miami jumped Alabama also - perhaps not deservedly so?

 

1. USC (57) 9-0 1,617

2. Texas (8 ) 9-0 1,568

3. Miami 7-1 1,452

4. Alabama 9-0 1,450

5. LSU 7-1 1,328

6. Penn State 9-1 1,271

7. Notre Dame 6-2 1,201

8. Virginia Tech 8-1 1,147

9. Georgia 7-1 1,097

10. Ohio State 7-2 1,076

11. Oregon 8-1 943

12. Florida 7-2 905

13. Texas Tech 8-1 753

14. UCLA 8-1 693

15. Auburn 7-2 680

16. West Virginia 7-1 677

17. Florida State 7-2 605

18. TCU 9-1 536

19. Wisconsin 8-2 438

20. Fresno State 7-1 410

21. Michigan 6-3 372

22. Colorado 7-2 312

23. Louisville 6-2 242

24. Georgia Tech 6-2 109

25. Northwestern 6-3 82

[stitchface]

who's to say? This is why there needs to be a playoff. The current system is utter BS.

[TruffleShuffle]

If PSU plays ND in the Fiesta, that would be fun. I think it would be a very good game. Plus it's a warmup for playing in the regular season next year!

 

Speaking of that, my friends and I began preliminary discussions about going to South Bend for the game next year... it would be a really fun trip.