11/05 College Football

[Andy]

Relevant:

 

Passing Yards:

Leinart - 2530 Quinn - 2352

 

Touchdowns:

Quinn - 20 Leinart - 19

 

INTs -

Quinn - 4 Leinart - 6

 

Comp%

Quinn - 65.7 Leinart - 65.5

 

Heisman Watch Position:

Quinn - 4 Leinart - 3

 

Other than Leinart's making the plays he had to make against ND (which is an iffy argument because Quinn also made the plays he had to make in that game), why should this be the case? :?

 

QB rating:

 

Quinn - 161.87 Leinart - 166.94

 

Passing Yards: 2167

Touchdowns: 23

Interceptions: 3

Comp %: 67.3

QB Rating: 165.34

 

Who is that?

 

That guy in my sig. And he easily has the worst receiving crew of the bunch.

After reading the Maurice Drew article in SI recently I'm beginning to wonder what the heck is wrong with college football that the statistically best QB in the country (Olson) is doing without any Heisman hype. That's a damn shame.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'd be interested to see how strong the defenses are that Leinart and Quinn have faced. The one time I checked a few weeks back, ND had faced 2 of the 10 worst passing defenses in the country, plus more bad ones. Don't know what the case is now, or what USC's has been like.

[adamb0719]

Does anyone know Youngs numbers off-hand? He is first in the voting right now, and I have a feeling his numbers are not as good as any of the three QB's mentioned. I could be wrong though

[Andy]

Young has 700 fewer yards than Leinart, 4 TD less than Quinn and 2 more INT than Leinart. He's getting pub for torching the worst team in his conference after sleepwalking in the first half.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Vince Young:

 

Passing Yards: 1835

Passing TDs: 16

INTs: 8

Comp %: 63.2

QB Rating: 163.65

 

 

Carries:

Young: 103, Quinn: 44, Leinart: 29, Olson: 28

Rushing Yards:

Young: 725, Quinn: 88, Leinart: 32, Olson: -30

Rushing TDs:

Young: 8, Leinart: 3, Olson: 1, Quinn: 1

 

EDIT: Took out an irrelevant quote.

Edited November 3, 2005 by CaliforniaRaisin

[adamb0719]

I'd be interested to see how strong the defenses are that Leinart and Quinn have faced. The one time I checked a few weeks back, ND had faced 2 of the 10 worst passing defenses in the country, plus more bad ones. Don't know what the case is now, or what USC's has been like.

 

Purdue is last BYU is 101 MSU is 104

ND has played some teams with bad D.

 

ND is also 114 in the ranking. I still can't figure out why teams just don't pass every play against the Irish. They really have avery weak secondary.

 

Tennesse is 12th in total D, which I think will be a problem this weekend for ND.

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?div=4&rpt=IA_teampassdef&site=org

[TruffleShuffle]

Does anyone know Youngs numbers off-hand? He is first in the voting right now, and I have a feeling his numbers are not as good as any of the three QB's mentioned. I could be wrong though

 

120-190 (63.2%)

1835 passing yards

9.7 yds per attempt

16 TD

8 INT

163.65 rating

 

103 rushes

725 yards

7.0 rushing average

8 rushing TD

 

Basically as many yards and more TDs than any of the other QBs in this discussion... so yes, he belongs.

[adamb0719]

Vince Young:

 

Passing Yards: 1835

Passing TDs: 16

INTs: 8

Comp %: 63.2

QB Rating: 163.65

 

 

Carries:

Young: 103, Quinn: 44, Leinart: 29, Olson: 28

Rushing Yards:

Young: 725, Quinn: 88, Leinart: 32, Olson: -30

Rushing TDs:

Young: 8, Leinart: 3, Olson: 1, Quinn: 1

 

EDIT: Took out an irrelevant quote.

 

Wow. Young is average at passing, but killing the other guys on the ground. I didn't know he had that good of stats. I must say I am impressed by his TOTAL stats. I was wrong on that one :oops:

 

Does Olsen get sacked a lot?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Vince Young:

 

Passing Yards: 1835

Passing TDs: 16

INTs: 8

Comp %: 63.2

QB Rating: 163.65

 

 

Carries:

Young: 103, Quinn: 44, Leinart: 29, Olson: 28

Rushing Yards:

Young: 725, Quinn: 88, Leinart: 32, Olson: -30

Rushing TDs:

Young: 8, Leinart: 3, Olson: 1, Quinn: 1

 

EDIT: Took out an irrelevant quote.

 

Wow. Young is average at passing, but killing the other guys on the ground. I didn't know he had that good of stats. I must say I am impressed by his TOTAL stats. I was wrong on that one :oops:

 

Does Olsen get sacked a lot?

 

4 more sacks than Leinart or Quinn.

[adamb0719]

Vince Young:

 

Passing Yards: 1835

Passing TDs: 16

INTs: 8

Comp %: 63.2

QB Rating: 163.65

 

 

Carries:

Young: 103, Quinn: 44, Leinart: 29, Olson: 28

Rushing Yards:

Young: 725, Quinn: 88, Leinart: 32, Olson: -30

Rushing TDs:

Young: 8, Leinart: 3, Olson: 1, Quinn: 1

 

EDIT: Took out an irrelevant quote.

 

Wow. Young is average at passing, but killing the other guys on the ground. I didn't know he had that good of stats. I must say I am impressed by his TOTAL stats. I was wrong on that one :oops:

 

Does Olsen get sacked a lot?

 

4 more sacks than Leinart or Quinn.

 

Just wondered because he has -30 yards rushing.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Okay, after some fun with Excel, I ranked a bunch of the top QB's by category. Instead of punishing some for not throwing as much as others, I combined the ranks from Attempts and Total Yards. That's what Composite Yardage is.

 

Player	QB Rating         Composite yardage   Comp %   YPC     TD     INT
Brohm	1                       5               1       2       6       2
Vick	2                       7		2       4       7       4
Leinart	3                       1.5		5       1       3       5
Olson	4                       3.5		3       7       1       1
Stanton	5                       3.5		4       5       4       6
Young	6                       6		7       3       5       7
Quinn	7                       1.5		6       6       2       3

 

Here's how they stand when you take their average rank:

 

Rank		Average		Avg Rank
Brohm		2.833333333	1
Leinart		3.083333333	2
Olson		3.25		3
Quinn		4.25		4
Vick		4.333333333	5
Stanton		4.583333333	6
Young		5.666666667	7

 

Obviously the competition for each of them hasn't been equal, so I found the average passing yards per game of their opponents, and multiplied it by the previous average to add in a strength of schedule factor.

 

Rank	Average		Opp. Avg	Total
Brohm	2.833333333	221.5714286	627.7857143
Vick	4.333333333	203.3125	881.0208333
Leinart	3.083333333	260.3875	802.8614583
Olson	3.25		262.8375	854.221875
Stanton	4.583333333	242.7875	1112.776042
Young	5.666666667	220.5		1249.5
Quinn	4.25		253.9714286	1079.378571

 

And here's the final tally of my crazy QB math.

 

 

Player	Total		Rank
Brohm	627.7857143	1
Leinart	802.8614583	2
Olson	854.221875	3
Vick	881.0208333	4
Quinn	1079.378571	5
Stanton	1112.776042	6
Young	1249.5		7

 

Obviously this methodology isn't perfect, but it's interesting to look at.

 

Okay, this isn't lining up even in notepad, so if it's that big a deal lemme know and I'll try to sort it out later.

[adamb0719]

Very impressive work Cpatt.

[TruffleShuffle]

Okay, after some fun with Excel, I ranked a bunch of the top QB's by category. Instead of punishing some for not throwing as much as others, I combined the ranks from Attempts and Total Yards. That's what Composite Yardage is.

 

Player	QB Rating         Composite yardage   Comp %   YPC     TD     INT
Brohm	1                       5               1       2       6       2
Vick	2                       7		2       4       7       4
Leinart	3                       1.5		5       1       3       5
Olson	4                       3.5		3       7       1       1
Stanton	5                       3.5		4       5       4       6
Young	6                       6		7       3       5       7
Quinn	7                       1.5		6       6       2       3

 

Here's how they stand when you take their average rank:

 

Rank		Average		Avg Rank
Brohm		2.833333333	1
Leinart		3.083333333	2
Olson		3.25		3
Quinn		4.25		4
Vick		4.333333333	5
Stanton		4.583333333	6
Young		5.666666667	7

 

Obviously the competition for each of them hasn't been equal, so I found the average passing yards per game of their opponents, and multiplied it by the previous average to add in a strength of schedule factor.

 

Rank	Average		Opp. Avg	Total
Brohm	2.833333333	221.5714286	627.7857143
Vick	4.333333333	203.3125	881.0208333
Leinart	3.083333333	260.3875	802.8614583
Olson	3.25		262.8375	854.221875
Stanton	4.583333333	242.7875	1112.776042
Young	5.666666667	220.5		1249.5
Quinn	4.25		253.9714286	1079.378571

 

And here's the final tally of my crazy QB math.

 

 

Player	Total		Rank
Brohm	627.7857143	1
Leinart	802.8614583	2
Olson	854.221875	3
Vick	881.0208333	4
Quinn	1079.378571	5
Stanton	1112.776042	6
Young	1249.5		7

 

Obviously this methodology isn't perfect, but it's interesting to look at.

 

Okay, this isn't lining up even in notepad, so if it's that big a deal lemme know and I'll try to sort it out later.

 

Those are fun stats, but I think your methodology is very unfair to running QBs (i.e., Young). For one thing, his passer rating is only marginally below the other guys, but his rushing ability is far better. Yet there's something in for passing rating, but nothing for "running rating" or something along those lines, in which Young would clearly rank first.

 

Also, from what I can tell you've combined total attempts (rushing and passing) and yards (rushing and passing). Since all the guys on your list average at least 8.4 yards per attempt, Young is actually hurt by the fact that he runs the ball so much, even though his rushing average is 7 ypc. Your methodology causes him to rank in this "composite yardage" category, even though he's tied for first in yards per passing attempt, and first by a wide, wide margin in yards per rushing attempt.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

No, there isn't any rushing numbers involved up there. In Young's case, he's got some great rushing numbers, but he's hurt beyond the point where he attempts fewer passes. He's second to last in passing attempts, but has thrown the most interceptions. He's last in completion percentage, despite having fewer passes to sustain a high rate. So in the end, Young should be higher, but the above illustrates that he is pretty inferior as a passer that should keep him out of the running for the top spot. On the other hand, without looking up Vick's numbers, strong running numbers from him might propel him up to where he would be closer to the top spot.

[adamb0719]

No, there isn't any rushing numbers involved up there. In Young's case, he's got some great rushing numbers, but he's hurt beyond the point where he attempts fewer passes. He's second to last in passing attempts, but has thrown the most interceptions. He's last in completion percentage, despite having fewer passes to sustain a high rate. So in the end, Young should be higher, but the above illustrates that he is pretty inferior as a passer that should keep him out of the running for the top spot. On the other hand, without looking up Vick's numbers, strong running numbers from him might propel him up to where he would be closer to the top spot.

 

Is that in reference to your finding, or the Heisman voting?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

No, there isn't any rushing numbers involved up there. In Young's case, he's got some great rushing numbers, but he's hurt beyond the point where he attempts fewer passes. He's second to last in passing attempts, but has thrown the most interceptions. He's last in completion percentage, despite having fewer passes to sustain a high rate. So in the end, Young should be higher, but the above illustrates that he is pretty inferior as a passer that should keep him out of the running for the top spot. On the other hand, without looking up Vick's numbers, strong running numbers from him might propel him up to where he would be closer to the top spot.

 

Is that in reference to your finding, or the Heisman voting?

 

My "ranking" which was supposed to give a little perspective on who should be the best, which translates to the Heisman. Obviously I'm not going to go nuts claiming Brohm should be the runaway winner, but he deserves more recognition than he's getting, and as a passer Young deserves less. What I meant by the bolded is that Young is so far down the list in passing aspects that his running game probably isn't enough in my mind to overcome that deficit.

[adamb0719]

No, there isn't any rushing numbers involved up there. In Young's case, he's got some great rushing numbers, but he's hurt beyond the point where he attempts fewer passes. He's second to last in passing attempts, but has thrown the most interceptions. He's last in completion percentage, despite having fewer passes to sustain a high rate. So in the end, Young should be higher, but the above illustrates that he is pretty inferior as a passer that should keep him out of the running for the top spot. On the other hand, without looking up Vick's numbers, strong running numbers from him might propel him up to where he would be closer to the top spot.

 

Is that in reference to your finding, or the Heisman voting?

 

My "ranking" which was supposed to give a little perspective on who should be the best, which translates to the Heisman. Obviously I'm not going to go nuts claiming Brohm should be the runaway winner, but he deserves more recognition than he's getting, and as a passer Young deserves less. What I meant by the bolded is that Young is so far down the list in passing aspects that his running game probably isn't enough in my mind to overcome that deficit.

 

I didn't quite understand that. Are you saying Young is not as good a QB as the others because is more of a runner?

 

I did like your ranking a lot, it just seems to me that there is more to being a QB than just passing. That of course will not translate into what you did, which is fine, but I do think it should translate into the Heisman.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

My "ranking" which was supposed to give a little perspective on who should be the best, which translates to the Heisman. Obviously I'm not going to go nuts claiming Brohm should be the runaway winner, but he deserves more recognition than he's getting, and as a passer Young deserves less. What I meant by the bolded is that Young is so far down the list in passing aspects that his running game probably isn't enough in my mind to overcome that deficit.

 

I didn't quite understand that. Are you saying Young is not as good a QB as the others because is more of a runner?

 

I did like your ranking a lot, it just seems to me that there is more to being a QB than just passing. That of course will not translate into what you did, which is fine, but I do think it should translate into the Heisman.

 

No, I was saying that Young isn't nearly as good a passer as most of the others, and his running ability(a definite plus) doesn't bridge the gap enough to make him as good overall.

 

I agree that there's more than passing. I was just trying to get something that quantified passing(which is most important of the factors IMO) when having a debate about the different top QBs.

[adamb0719]

My "ranking" which was supposed to give a little perspective on who should be the best, which translates to the Heisman. Obviously I'm not going to go nuts claiming Brohm should be the runaway winner, but he deserves more recognition than he's getting, and as a passer Young deserves less. What I meant by the bolded is that Young is so far down the list in passing aspects that his running game probably isn't enough in my mind to overcome that deficit.

 

I didn't quite understand that. Are you saying Young is not as good a QB as the others because is more of a runner?

 

I did like your ranking a lot, it just seems to me that there is more to being a QB than just passing. That of course will not translate into what you did, which is fine, but I do think it should translate into the Heisman.

 

No, I was saying that Young isn't nearly as good a passer as most of the others, and his running ability(a definite plus) doesn't bridge the gap enough to make him as good overall.

 

I agree that there's more than passing. I was just trying to get something that quantified passing(which is most important of the factors IMO) when having a debate about the different top QBs.

 

Ok, I get it now. Sorry I had such a hard time understanding that.

 

I was preparing myself for another is Michael Vick a good QB debate. :wink:

[NewUserName]

How many yards rushing is Young averaging per game? 90 or so. I know I may be a little old school but I feel that 100 yd a game rusher is worth more than 300 yd a game passer. So basically Young combines being a B- passer with being a A- running back. I dont think this is a contest. When the other guys are A passers and at least C runners you might have an arguement, until then his passing, running and winning put Young #1 in the Heisman vote for me.

[Jon]

No offense intended to the Iowa fans out there:

 

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c400/jeffersoncat/iowasacomin.jpg

 

This is such a big game for the 'Cats. A loss likely means three losses in a row with OSU on the road next week but a win likely means a 7-4 record and a respectable bowl bid.

[TruffleShuffle]

Hey Joe Paterno, shut up. Not because you're racist or anything close to it, but because people will paint your logical comments as being racist.

[hawkeyecub]

Should be a good game tomorrow JonM. I've always really liked and respected Basanez and Sutton has been extremely impressive this year.

For all the crap your defense gets about giving up yards (which they've improved over the last few games) they know how to force turnovers.

 

The key will be mistakes. We were the least penalized team in the country entering the Michigan game, and lost that game due to 12 penalties. NW seemed to make many more mistakes than normal against Michigan also.

 

One thing that gives me confidence is that Norm Parker (our D. coordinator) has always been able to handle your offense pretty well. I'm sure you remember the 2000 game when you guys came to Kinnick ranked 12th in the country and looking to lock up the Rose Bowl against a 2-7 Iowa team.

We haven't faced you the last two years though, and you were a completely different team in '02 when we won 62-10 or whatever it ended up being.

 

You'll get yardage, we just need to limit points. We have the best red zone defense in the Big Ten, giving up points only 66% of the time. Our run defense has improved dramatically and the weakness (lack of a pass rush) really doesn't matter when you face NW. If we can control the ball and eat up some clock on the ground I think we win.

31-23 Iowa.

[Jon]

Should be a good game tomorrow JonM. I've always really liked and respected Basanez and Sutton has been extremely impressive this year.

For all the crap your defense gets about giving up yards (which they've improved over the last few games) they know how to force turnovers.

 

The key will be mistakes. We were the least penalized team in the country entering the Michigan game, and lost that game due to 12 penalties. NW seemed to make many more mistakes than normal against Michigan also.

 

One thing that gives me confidence is that Norm Parker (our D. coordinator) has always been able to handle your offense pretty well. I'm sure you remember the 2000 game when you guys came to Kinnick ranked 12th in the country and looking to lock up the Rose Bowl against a 2-7 Iowa team.

We haven't faced you the last two years though, and you were a completely different team in '02 when we won 62-10 or whatever it ended up being.

 

You'll get yardage, we just need to limit points. We have the best red zone defense in the Big Ten, giving up points only 66% of the time. Our run defense has improved dramatically and the weakness (lack of a pass rush) really doesn't matter when you face NW. If we can control the ball and eat up some clock on the ground I think we win.

31-23 Iowa.

The defense has turned it around a bit, but the turnover differential is what's keeping this team alive. It basically has to be +2 every game in order to have a good shot at winning. I'd look for each team to score right around 30, so it should be an entertaining one on ESPN.

 

The wildcard is going to be how the offensive line bounces back. I have plenty of faith that the WRs will be fine, but Walker is replacing Belding (the center who had all the holds last week) with another young center who had a terrible case of high snaps to begin the season as the starter. If they can give Basanez more time in the pocket like they have been most of the season, the offense will be that much better.

 

I will say that I hate having to get up at 8:00 for an 11:00 game, though.

[Derwood]

Hey Joe Paterno, shut up. Not because you're racist or anything close to it, but because people will paint your logical comments as being racist.

 

I hear ya. Your team is doing great, everyone is excited, stop talking!