Chicago Cubs vs. St. Louis Cardinals?

[wekse]

okay, you don't like ignorance...how about faulty logic, is that better?

[Chief_Cardinal]

OK what was faulty about it?

[wekse]

The Cards have also been in the playoffs 5 times in the last 6 years, 4 of those times as division winners.

 

Actually they were division winners all 5 times.

 

The thing about the 03 Cards is that they led the majors in blown saves. We didn't have our closer till June with most of those blown saves coming before then. This played a major role in the Cards not winning the division that year (even though they were in 1st place on the first of September of that year....picking up those wins early on would of made a huge difference.)

 

no they weren't....tell me what isn't faulty about what you said here?

[Chief_Cardinal]

In 01 they tied for the Division Championship. They got a certificate from the league proclaiming them co-champions...thus the statement is correct. REmember the Berkman debate about this

[wekse]

what about '03?

[Chief_Cardinal]

The Cards have also been in the playoffs 5 times in the last 6 years, 4 of those times as division winners.

 

Actually they were division winners all 5 times.

 

 

 

Looks like you may have misunderstood what I was talking about

[wolf stansson]

I'll rearrange the bold so he CFTN understands.

The Cards have also been in the playoffs 5 times in the last 6 years, 4 of those times as division winners.

 

Actually they were division winners all 5 times.

He acknowledges the Cubs '03 title but contends that the Cards were co-champs in '01. '00, '01, '02, '04, and '05. That's 5 div. titles in 6 years.

[wekse]

got it...i thought he was saying they really did win in '03 if not for the blown saves.

[Chief_Cardinal]

Yeah the bottom part of my original message was my comments on the orginal conversation about the 03 Cards.

 

I just quoted the top part to point out the division title thing

[CardsFanInChiTown]

the Cards were co-champs in '01. '00, '01, '02, '04, and '05. That's 5 div. titles in 6 years.

 

A Sox fan at work today called the Cards the Buffalo Bills of the baseball world. Ouch!

[UK1679666180]

haha, i'm sorry but did you even think before you posted this? with that logic the cubs have never lost the division, and all this time i thought i was watching a losing team.

 

Don't you remember? The Cubs had perfect health in '03 and everyone over achieved. The Cards would've won the division, if the Cubs weren't so damn lucky in '03, nevermind the injuries to Sosa, Choi, Patterson, Prior, Grudzielanek, etc. Oh yeah, Houston had a better record as well.

 

I think that the last 2 years have given a little credence to that theory, actually.

 

Saying the Cards injuries were more of an impact based on the loss of a closer or the inability of Jocketty to find one in-house (Fassero?) was the reason why STL did not win the division is completely stupid when not looking at the complete picture. Are you saying the loss of Patterson, Choi, Prior, Grudzielanek, Sosa, etc. had no impact on the Cubs only winning 88 games?

 

That's like me saying the Cubs would've made the playoffs last year if Wood and Prior would've stayed healthy, I won't say that, b/c it's wrong and hypothetical non-sense to assume otherwise.

 

What was the health of STL when they were going to Chicago for a 5 game series while they were in 1st place?

 

They lost the division b/c they got they were pushed around all over the field by the Cubs and never recovered, unless getting swept at home by the Rockies in the middle of a playoff push is a usual occurance.

 

To try and minimize the Cubs winning the division based on the health of the Cards and not factor injuries that occured to the team that finished of them. To use my favorite line, you're performing mental masturbation.

[indifferent]

the Cards were co-champs in '01. '00, '01, '02, '04, and '05. That's 5 div. titles in 6 years.

 

A Sox fan at work today called the Cards the Buffalo Bills of the baseball world. Ouch!

 

Yeah, yeah, we're the Atlanta Braves, the 2001 Mariners, the Bills, all creative ways of insulting good teams who don't get it done in the end.

 

Pretty soon, they're going to be calling similar teams the St. Louis Cardinals, then I'll really be steamed! :x

[wolf stansson]

the Cards were co-champs in '01. '00, '01, '02, '04, and '05. That's 5 div. titles in 6 years.

 

A Sox fan at work today called the Cards the Buffalo Bills of the baseball world. Ouch!

What does that make the Sox? Wow. I can't think of a proper football analogy considering no NFL team has ever cheated away the super bowl.

[XZero771679666304]

the Cards were co-champs in '01. '00, '01, '02, '04, and '05. That's 5 div. titles in 6 years.

 

A Sox fan at work today called the Cards the Buffalo Bills of the baseball world. Ouch!

 

Yeah, yeah, we're the Atlanta Braves, the 2001 Mariners, the Bills, all creative ways of insulting good teams who don't get it done in the end.

 

Pretty soon, they're going to be calling similar teams the St. Louis Cardinals, then I'll really be steamed! :x

 

Man, the Braves have won 14 straight division titles, with only 1 WS title to show for it. There's 5 out of 6, then there's 14 freaking straight. The Cards, M's and Bills have nothing on the Braves when it comes to squandered opportunties.

[dalgreen]

The main difference this year between the two teams is Jocketty knew what the his team needed and improved it. Hendry knew what the team needed and just attempted to fill holes, not really improving it.

 

Both teams needed a leadoff hitter. The Cards got Eckstein, who knew his only role was to get on base. Hendry pretty much gave up and relied on Baker to choose the leadoff hitter.

 

Both teams needed pitching - the Cards a legit front-line starter and the Cubs some bullpen help. The Cards got Mulder, while Hendry chose to go with an often injured Chad Fox, a surgery recovered Borowski, and really not making it known how Dempster would be used, and trading Farnsworth, while relying on kids to help in the pen.

 

Cards needed a second baseman with a pretty good glove, who you don't really need to rely on offense for, and they get Grudz. We needed high OPS guys in the outfield and Hendry relies on Dubois/Hollandsworth and Burnitz.

 

I can see how the two teams had completely different seasons.