MLB.com article on Guzman

[Jon]

Cubs.com[/url]"]It's been a slow comeback. Guzman looked as if he'd turned the corner this spring, but the dark cloud returned. He wanted to show the Cubs he was OK, and in his final spring game, he ignored some discomfort in his arm and continued to throw. One pitch knocked him out. He had strained his forearm.

 

"It was weird," Guzman said Wednesday. "In my last outing of the big-league camp against the Diamondbacks in Tucson, you start to feel like there are some problems, but you think that's because you've been throwing every day and your arm is getting accustomed to it.

 

"I was having a problem but I thought it was the muscle, and I decided to start to throw," he said. "It got worse, and they shut me down."

...............

He has added muscle and now weighs 200. He's more devoted to an exercise program. Guzman most likely will not pitch in winter ball, in order to give him time to rest and prepare for the 2006 season. He'll be one of the early birds in Mesa in February, eager for spring camp to begin.

[USSoccer]

If the Cubs want to get anything out of Angel, they should put him in the pen. I'd never again expect him to be an ML starter.

[rsmoler]

He couldn't be hurt that badly. He pitched 4 innings in the Arizona Fall league and gave up 2 ER, 0 BBs and 5 SOs. An OK outing.

[USSoccer]

He couldn't be hurt that badly. He pitched 4 innings in the Arizona Fall league and gave up 2 ER, 0 BBs and 5 SOs. An OK outing.

 

Against draft picks, and other rehabbing players, though.

[RyCubsFan]

He couldn't be hurt that badly. He pitched 4 innings in the Arizona Fall league and gave up 2 ER, 0 BBs and 5 SOs. An OK outing.

 

Oh, he's healthy now. The article is referring to last Spring Training.

[mhuber92211]

He couldn't be hurt that badly. He pitched 4 innings in the Arizona Fall league and gave up 2 ER, 0 BBs and 5 SOs. An OK outing.

 

Against draft picks, and other rehabbing players, though.

 

Actually this outing was in the AFL a couple of days ago.

[USSoccer]

He couldn't be hurt that badly. He pitched 4 innings in the Arizona Fall league and gave up 2 ER, 0 BBs and 5 SOs. An OK outing.

 

Against draft picks, and other rehabbing players, though.

 

Actually this outing was in the AFL a couple of days ago.

 

And who plays in the Arizona Fall League is my point. Angel Guzman has never pitched a full season at any level. Ever. Ever. Why on earth the Cubs insist on keeping him as a starter when he clearly cannot stay healthy is beyond me.

 

It's going to take more than what's basically a sim game in AZ to convince me that Guzman can be counted on to give the 2006 Cubs anything.

[USSoccer]

Just to back my bluster up:

 

Year Team W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV INN H R ER HR HBP BB SO

2000 R-LA PRADERA 1 1 1.93 7 6 0 0 0 32.2 24 13 7 0 5 5 25

2001 A-BOISE 9 1 2.23 14 14 0 0 0 76.2 68 27 19 2 0 19 63

2002 A-DAYTONA 6 2 2.39 16 15 1 0 0 94.0 99 34 25 2 4 33 74

2002 A-LANSING 5 2 1.89 9 9 1 0 0 62.0 42 18 13 3 1 16 49

2003 AA-WEST TENN 3 3 2.81 15 15 0 0 0 89.2 83 30 28 8 2 26 87

2004 AA-WEST TENN 0 3 5.60 4 4 0 0 0 17.2 20 11 11 2 0 4 13

2004 A-DAYTONA 3 1 4.20 7 7 0 0 0 30.0 27 15 14 2 1 0 40

 

 

The most games he's started, ever, has been 15. He's had constant arm injuries. It's better for Angel and the Cubs to move him to the pen, and try and develop him like K-Rod.

[rawaction]

He couldn't be hurt that badly. He pitched 4 innings in the Arizona Fall league and gave up 2 ER, 0 BBs and 5 SOs. An OK outing.

 

Against draft picks, and other rehabbing players, though.

 

Actually this outing was in the AFL a couple of days ago.

 

And who plays in the Arizona Fall League is my point. Angel Guzman has never pitched a full season at any level. Ever. Ever. Why on earth the Cubs insist on keeping him as a starter when he clearly cannot stay healthy is beyond me.

 

It's going to take more than what's basically a sim game in AZ to convince me that Guzman can be counted on to give the 2006 Cubs anything.

 

The AFL is a who's who for baseball prospects. There is a ton of talent in that league.

[RyCubsFan]

Just to back my bluster up:

 

Year Team W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV INN H R ER HR HBP BB SO

2000 R-LA PRADERA 1 1 1.93 7 6 0 0 0 32.2 24 13 7 0 5 5 25

2001 A-BOISE 9 1 2.23 14 14 0 0 0 76.2 68 27 19 2 0 19 63

2002 A-DAYTONA 6 2 2.39 16 15 1 0 0 94.0 99 34 25 2 4 33 74

2002 A-LANSING 5 2 1.89 9 9 1 0 0 62.0 42 18 13 3 1 16 49

2003 AA-WEST TENN 3 3 2.81 15 15 0 0 0 89.2 83 30 28 8 2 26 87

2004 AA-WEST TENN 0 3 5.60 4 4 0 0 0 17.2 20 11 11 2 0 4 13

2004 A-DAYTONA 3 1 4.20 7 7 0 0 0 30.0 27 15 14 2 1 0 40

 

 

The most games he's started, ever, has been 15. He's had constant arm injuries. It's better for Angel and the Cubs to move him to the pen, and try and develop him like K-Rod.

 

Not to nitpick, but according to your chart, he started 24 games in 02. Your point still stands though. Yet, I disagree. I'd give him next year to try to be a starter. He's still very young, and according to those who have seen him, his stuff has not suffered despite the injuries.

[abuck1220]

He couldn't be hurt that badly. He pitched 4 innings in the Arizona Fall league and gave up 2 ER, 0 BBs and 5 SOs. An OK outing.

 

Against draft picks, and other rehabbing players, though.

 

Actually this outing was in the AFL a couple of days ago.

 

And who plays in the Arizona Fall League is my point. Angel Guzman has never pitched a full season at any level. Ever. Ever. Why on earth the Cubs insist on keeping him as a starter when he clearly cannot stay healthy is beyond me.

 

It's going to take more than what's basically a sim game in AZ to convince me that Guzman can be counted on to give the 2006 Cubs anything.

 

the best prospects in baseball.

[USSoccer]

Just to back my bluster up:

 

Year Team W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV INN H R ER HR HBP BB SO

2000 R-LA PRADERA 1 1 1.93 7 6 0 0 0 32.2 24 13 7 0 5 5 25

2001 A-BOISE 9 1 2.23 14 14 0 0 0 76.2 68 27 19 2 0 19 63

2002 A-DAYTONA 6 2 2.39 16 15 1 0 0 94.0 99 34 25 2 4 33 74

2002 A-LANSING 5 2 1.89 9 9 1 0 0 62.0 42 18 13 3 1 16 49

2003 AA-WEST TENN 3 3 2.81 15 15 0 0 0 89.2 83 30 28 8 2 26 87

2004 AA-WEST TENN 0 3 5.60 4 4 0 0 0 17.2 20 11 11 2 0 4 13

2004 A-DAYTONA 3 1 4.20 7 7 0 0 0 30.0 27 15 14 2 1 0 40

 

 

The most games he's started, ever, has been 15. He's had constant arm injuries. It's better for Angel and the Cubs to move him to the pen, and try and develop him like K-Rod.

 

Not to nitpick, but according to your chart, he started 24 games in 02. Your point still stands though. Yet, I disagree. I'd give him next year to try to be a starter. He's still very young, and according to those who have seen him, his stuff has not suffered despite the injuries.

 

The chart is hard to read, but according to this link:

 

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/390805

 

The most games appeared in is 16, and the most starts was 15.

 

Regarding the AFL league as a "Who's Who" for prospects, it very well may be, but my point is, that Guzman is 2 years behind schedule, so it's difficult for me to be optimistic based on 5 innings in the AFL. He has ML talent in his arm, but if he cannot stay healthy, it doesn't mean much to me.

 

I'm not trying to diminish Angel's talent, or th AFL in general, but someone of his talent should be in the big leagues by now. Thus, I don't think it's anything to get excited about, and the Cubs' insistence at keeping him as a starter is not a good move, IMO.

[rawaction]

Just to back my bluster up:

 

Year Team W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV INN H R ER HR HBP BB SO

2000 R-LA PRADERA 1 1 1.93 7 6 0 0 0 32.2 24 13 7 0 5 5 25

2001 A-BOISE 9 1 2.23 14 14 0 0 0 76.2 68 27 19 2 0 19 63

2002 A-DAYTONA 6 2 2.39 16 15 1 0 0 94.0 99 34 25 2 4 33 74

2002 A-LANSING 5 2 1.89 9 9 1 0 0 62.0 42 18 13 3 1 16 49

2003 AA-WEST TENN 3 3 2.81 15 15 0 0 0 89.2 83 30 28 8 2 26 87

2004 AA-WEST TENN 0 3 5.60 4 4 0 0 0 17.2 20 11 11 2 0 4 13

2004 A-DAYTONA 3 1 4.20 7 7 0 0 0 30.0 27 15 14 2 1 0 40

 

 

The most games he's started, ever, has been 15. He's had constant arm injuries. It's better for Angel and the Cubs to move him to the pen, and try and develop him like K-Rod.

 

Not to nitpick, but according to your chart, he started 24 games in 02. Your point still stands though. Yet, I disagree. I'd give him next year to try to be a starter. He's still very young, and according to those who have seen him, his stuff has not suffered despite the injuries.

 

The chart is hard to read, but according to this link:

 

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/390805

 

The most games appeared in is 16, and the most starts was 15.

 

Peep the Bold. 2 teams, 1 season.

[USSoccer]

 

Peep the Bold. 2 teams, 1 season.

 

 

Ah. I was mistaken, or maybe my reading skills aren't up to par tonight.

 

But I still think Guzman should be converted into a reliever. :P

[USSoccer]

Seriously, though, I know that I'm not expert on the AFL, or the minors, but is Guzman's path to the big leagues really as a starter? That's a lot of arm issues in only a fwe years.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

He couldn't be hurt that badly. He pitched 4 innings in the Arizona Fall league and gave up 2 ER, 0 BBs and 5 SOs. An OK outing.

 

Against draft picks, and other rehabbing players, though.

 

Actually this outing was in the AFL a couple of days ago.

 

And who plays in the Arizona Fall League is my point. Angel Guzman has never pitched a full season at any level. Ever. Ever. Why on earth the Cubs insist on keeping him as a starter when he clearly cannot stay healthy is beyond me.

 

It's going to take more than what's basically a sim game in AZ to convince me that Guzman can be counted on to give the 2006 Cubs anything.

 

Position players that Angel Guzman should face in the AFL include Stephen Drew, Howie Kendrick, Ian Stewart, Kendry Morales, Lastings Milledge, Billy Butler, Jeff Clement, Nick Markakis, Brandon Wood, Josh Fields, Chris Young and Adam Jones. Drew, Stewart and Wood are top-10 prospects in baseball, the rest should crack most top-100 lists.

 

Seriously, though, I know that I'm not expert on the AFL, or the minors, but is Guzman's path to the big leagues really as a starter? That's a lot of arm issues in only a fwe years.

 

But who's to say the wear and tear of pitching multiple times a week won't be even worse for his arm? With his ceiling as a starter and given how close he is to the bigs, I don't think it's that hard for him to reach the bigs as a starter.

[jaxxradio]

US Soccer.. Not to show any disrespect, but you sound like someone who doesn't follow the minors. Allow me to enlighten you on those numbers you are throwing around.

 

Guzman made fourteen starts in short-season A ball in 2001. Fourteen starts is a full season in short season A ball.

 

In 2002, Guzman split time between Lansing and Daytona, making twenty-five appearances (twenty-four starts) between the two teams, another full season of baseball.

 

In 2003, Guzman pitched the first half of the season and tore his labrum in his second start of the second half of the season with the Diamond Jaxx.

 

In 2004, Guzman made eleven second half starts. He later admitted that he was trying to hard and did more harm to his career.

 

In 2005 with his labrum 100%, Guzman hurt his forearm and missed most of the season. The injury gave Guzman the opportunity to develop his body. This latest injury to Guzman could have been the best thing to happen to him because Guzman is now bigger and STRONGER than he has ever been in his professional career. He is currently pitching in the Arizona Fall League against the best minor league talent.

 

Now that Guzman is at 200 pounds and strong, I don't think we are going to see anymore significant injuries. When this kid is healthy, he is the best starting pitcher, stuff wise, in the ENTIRE Cubs organization (that includes Prior, Zambrano and Wood). Trust me on this one, leave him in the rotation. Guzman is that good.

[rawaction]

I'm with you on that RP. Guzman can flat out deal. I too am encouraged by the weight/muscle gain. The stamina will come if he stays on the field. The muscle should help him stay on the field. If he is on the ML roster next year, the Cubs will be a much better team for it. Angel's that good.

 

FWIW, I thought Guzman was amazing when I saw him for Lansing at 165lbs soaking wet.

[goonys evil twin]

But who's to say the wear and tear of pitching multiple times a week won't be even worse for his arm? With his ceiling as a starter and given how close he is to the bigs, I don't think it's that hard for him to reach the bigs as a starter.

 

You're right, we don't know if relieving would be worse.

 

But what we do know is he can't start. He is not young, he'll turn 24 this winter, and he only has 400 pro innings. He makes Kerry Wood look reliable. Was this his 2nd year on the 40 man roster? Wouldn't that mean next year is the last chance he'll have? The Cubs can't afford to hope he proves he can stay healthy as a starter for a year. They certainly can't rely on that being the case. I think the only realistic option is throwing him into the pen next year. If he starts out well, call him up and give him a job. If he gets injured again, you can't blame it on the move to the pen, because he's got injured at every other turn.

[RyCubsFan]

US Soccer.. Not to show any disrespect, but you sound like someone who doesn't follow the minors. Allow me to enlighten you on those numbers you are throwing around.

 

Guzman made fourteen starts in short-season A ball in 2001. Fourteen starts is a full season in short season A ball.

 

In 2002, Guzman split time between Lansing and Daytona, making twenty-five appearances (twenty-four starts) between the two teams, another full season of baseball.

 

In 2003, Guzman pitched the first half of the season and tore his labrum in his second start of the second half of the season with the Diamond Jaxx.

 

In 2004, Guzman made eleven second half starts. He later admitted that he was trying to hard and did more harm to his career.

 

In 2005 with his labrum 100%, Guzman hurt his forearm and missed most of the season. The injury gave Guzman the opportunity to develop his body. This latest injury to Guzman could have been the best thing to happen to him because Guzman is now bigger and STRONGER than he has ever been in his professional career. He is currently pitching in the Arizona Fall League against the best minor league talent.

 

Now that Guzman is at 200 pounds and strong, I don't think we are going to see anymore significant injuries. When this kid is healthy, he is the best starting pitcher, stuff wise, in the ENTIRE Cubs organization (that includes Prior, Zambrano and Wood). Trust me on this one, leave him in the rotation. Guzman is that good.

 

Geat post on Guzman, jaxxradio.

 

Question: Does anyone know whether Angel has to stick with the Cubs right out of Spring Training? Do the Cubs have another option remaining with Guzman or no?

 

If he does have to stick, how do the Cubs handle him? With Wood, Prior, Zambrano, and Maddux already slated for the rotation--coupled with rumors that the Cubs want to add another starter--it would be surprising if he were given one of the starters spot out of spring training without having any big league experience, especially with Williams and Hill also in the mix (even if his stuff is better than theirs, which it is). And yet, his long term potential is certainly best as a starter. What if he dominates in Spring Training? (as he did two years ago)

[jaxxradio]

Guzman has at least two more options left, meaning he can be placed in the minors for two more seasons. I think if Guzzy has a lights out spring, he has a chance to make the parent club but I honestly think that he is going to be assigned to either the Diamond Jaxx or Iowa.

[USSoccer]

But who's to say the wear and tear of pitching multiple times a week won't be even worse for his arm? With his ceiling as a starter and given how close he is to the bigs, I don't think it's that hard for him to reach the bigs as a starter.

 

You're right, we don't know if relieving would be worse.

 

But what we do know is he can't start. He is not young, he'll turn 24 this winter, and he only has 400 pro innings. He makes Kerry Wood look reliable. Was this his 2nd year on the 40 man roster? Wouldn't that mean next year is the last chance he'll have? The Cubs can't afford to hope he proves he can stay healthy as a starter for a year. They certainly can't rely on that being the case. I think the only realistic option is throwing him into the pen next year. If he starts out well, call him up and give him a job. If he gets injured again, you can't blame it on the move to the pen, because he's got injured at every other turn.

 

Boy, I'm glad someone around here has my back. :)

 

RP,

 

I don't follow the minors as seriously as some on NSBB do, so I appreciate the insight you and others bring to the table on our farm system.

 

That said, a 24 year old who has suffered 3 arm injuries of one variety or another doesn't excite me, given the health issues at the ML level. Goony's point is an excellent one-Guzman has proven an inability to stay healthy dating back to when he was a KC farmhand. There's no harm in trying him in a different role in order to see if his body responds more positively to it. It would be an easier way to get him the 25 man roster and contributing to our ML team. If he stays healthy, maybe we move him into the rotation in 2007, or if he's really lights out, maybe he can close games for us. All I'm saying is that he's been hurt as a starter, and since his stuff is that good, why not try something different?

[goonys evil twin]

Guzman has at least two more options left, meaning he can be placed in the minors for two more seasons. I think if Guzzy has a lights out spring, he has a chance to make the parent club but I honestly think that he is going to be assigned to either the Diamond Jaxx or Iowa.

 

So does that mean this was his first year on the 40 man roster?

[USSoccer]

Guzman has at least two more options left, meaning he can be placed in the minors for two more seasons. I think if Guzzy has a lights out spring, he has a chance to make the parent club but I honestly think that he is going to be assigned to either the Diamond Jaxx or Iowa.

 

So does that mean this was his first year on the 40 man roster?

 

I'm almost positive he was on the 40 man in 2003, wasn't he?

[jaxxradio]

The Cubs put him on the forty man roster on October 2003.

 

Guzman was very healthy from 2001-2003. He got injured in the second half of the 2003 season. It's not like his entire career has been beseiged with injuries. I understand where you and the other folks wanting Guzman to come out of the bullpen are coming from but having seen him play, he is better suited for the starting rotation because he has four above average pitches (fastball, sinker, curve, change). I don't think the Cubs can afford to send a guy with this much talent to the bullpen.

 

It's my humble opinion (not that it means anything) that you don't change a pitchers role unless he fails miserably. Guzman hasn't failed miserably, he has been hurt. Will he be healthy in 2006?? Who knows, but if he is healthy and stays healthy, this guy is a Cy Young award winning caliber pitcher.