Nomar money

[Wheelimus]

I just have this gut feeling that Nomar is going to train like a madman this offseason and be healthy next year. Don't know why. Maybe it's the blue kool-aid.

 

Anyway, I offer $3 million with another 1 mil per 100 plate appearances, plus another few million in statistical or award incentives. So $3 million if he gets hurt in a week, up to to 10+ if he's healthy.

 

Perfectly fair.

[UBlink]

I just have this gut feeling that Nomar is going to train like a madman this offseason and be healthy next year. Don't know why. Maybe it's the blue kool-aid.

 

Anyway, I offer $3 million with another 1 mil per 100 plate appearances, plus another few million in statistical or award incentives. So $3 million if he gets hurt in a week, up to to 10+ if he's healthy.

 

Perfectly fair.

 

Why have such big milestones? Why not $3 million base and $10,000 per plate appearance? You could have somebody from the front office meet him as he gets back to the dugout with a stack of $100's.

[brinoch]

I'd like to see Nomar come back next season. I like his attitude, I like his professionalism, and I think he'll be motivated. I also think his injury was a pretty freak occurance. It's rare that someone loses their footing like he did.

[TheDude]

I expect it will take a base of 5-7 million with incentives that could push the deal to 6-9 million.

 

I think the Cubs are the leaders for his services if they choose to go that route. I also think the White Sox, Mariners, Rangers, and Dodgers could get into the sweepstakes.

 

Way too much money. I would offer him 2.5 to 4 mil with incentives.

 

He has a lot to prove, and this brief stint from the DL doesn't do it for me.

 

I will go on record as saying there's no way he signs that cheap. The only question about him is health. He's shown since he's come back from the DL that he can perform. Somebody, whether its the Cubs or not, will guarantee him five million. That I am sure of, and I'd probably put the figure closer to seven million. I think the Cubs have a better chance of getting him at five than any other team would. It's not a question of whether he still has the skills; it's a question of whether he can stay healthy. The history of FA signings indicate there's no way that Nomar signs for less than five. Look at the contracts that have been handed out to players over the years. No way Nomar signs for less than five.

I will back you up. It is unreal to think Nomar will get a base salary less than Guzman. Sorry folks. It will take 5m plus incentives up to 8 or 9.

[Derwood]

I just have this gut feeling that Nomar is going to train like a madman this offseason and be healthy next year. Don't know why. Maybe it's the blue kool-aid.

 

Anyway, I offer $3 million with another 1 mil per 100 plate appearances, plus another few million in statistical or award incentives. So $3 million if he gets hurt in a week, up to to 10+ if he's healthy.

 

Perfectly fair.

 

Why have such big milestones? Why not $3 million base and $10,000 per plate appearance? You could have somebody from the front office meet him as he gets back to the dugout with a stack of $100's.

 

He should have a sack with a $ sign on it that he keeps with him in the dugout at all times (and holds up for the WGN cameras whenever they pan over to him) :lol:

[mg420]

down with nomar. go young with cedeno & win with your farm system like the braves do.

[erik316wttn]

I'd like to see Nomar come back next season. I like his attitude, I like his professionalism, and I think he'll be motivated. I also think his injury was a pretty freak occurance. It's rare that someone loses their footing like he did.

 

I agree. That injury could have happened to anyone. It was a fluke. It didn't happen because Nomar is fragile. He just slipped. No amount of conditioning can avoid freak injuries like that.

[goonys evil twin]

I'd like to see Nomar come back next season. I like his attitude, I like his professionalism, and I think he'll be motivated. I also think his injury was a pretty freak occurance. It's rare that someone loses their footing like he did.

 

I agree. That injury could have happened to anyone. It was a fluke. It didn't happen because Nomar is fragile. He just slipped. No amount of conditioning can avoid freak injuries like that.

 

The injury caused the slip, the slip did not cause the injury. The injury was caused in part by Nomar being susceptible to "freak" injuries. He's going to be an enormous risk next year. If he comes back, you have to have Ronny available to back him up. You can't afford another $2.5m .300 OBP in the lineup.

[Knightlife_in_Lubbock]

I'd like to see Nomar come back next season. I like his attitude, I like his professionalism, and I think he'll be motivated. I also think his injury was a pretty freak occurance. It's rare that someone loses their footing like he did.

 

I agree. That injury could have happened to anyone. It was a fluke. It didn't happen because Nomar is fragile. He just slipped. No amount of conditioning can avoid freak injuries like that.

 

The injury caused the slip, the slip did not cause the injury. The injury was caused in part by Nomar being susceptible to "freak" injuries. He's going to be an enormous risk next year. If he comes back, you have to have Ronny available to back him up. You can't afford another $2.5m .300 OBP in the lineup.

 

Corey makes more than that and .300 is a bit high. :wink:

[goonys evil twin]

Corey makes more than that and .300 is a bit high. :wink:

 

But as has been discussed ad nauseam, there is an enormous difference. Corey at least has a chance to put up better numbers. Neifi has no chance. He's crap, has always been crap, and always will be crap. If people don't understand the difference, there's not much point in discussing the matter further.

[erik316wttn]

I'd like to see Nomar come back next season. I like his attitude, I like his professionalism, and I think he'll be motivated. I also think his injury was a pretty freak occurance. It's rare that someone loses their footing like he did.

 

I agree. That injury could have happened to anyone. It was a fluke. It didn't happen because Nomar is fragile. He just slipped. No amount of conditioning can avoid freak injuries like that.

 

The injury caused the slip, the slip did not cause the injury. The injury was caused in part by Nomar being susceptible to "freak" injuries. He's going to be an enormous risk next year. If he comes back, you have to have Ronny available to back him up. You can't afford another $2.5m .300 OBP in the lineup.

 

And I'm totally in favor of sending Perez packing and having Cedeno as the SS/3B/2B backup.

[CubinNY]

I don't think Neifi is an everyday player. I don't think he is worth $1 million. However, I think he has become a symbol for everything that is wrong with the way Dusty Baker manages the ball club. I think many times the vitriol directed toward Neifi is misplaced. He is a competent back up. I think he should serve the Macis role. But that is the problem, I don't think Dusty thinks like me. Edited September 23, 2005 by CubinNY

[Knightlife_in_Lubbock]

Corey makes more than that and .300 is a bit high. :wink:

 

But as has been discussed ad nauseam, there is an enormous difference. Corey at least has a chance to put up better numbers. Neifi has no chance. He's crap, has always been crap, and always will be crap. If people don't understand the difference, there's not much point in discussing the matter further.

 

I do understand you are comparing a back-up (Perez) to a starter (Patterson) and their career OBP is nearly the same (slight advantage to Perez).

 

There are too many "potentials" on this team and not enough producers.

[goonys evil twin]

Corey makes more than that and .300 is a bit high. :wink:

 

But as has been discussed ad nauseam, there is an enormous difference. Corey at least has a chance to put up better numbers. Neifi has no chance. He's crap, has always been crap, and always will be crap. If people don't understand the difference, there's not much point in discussing the matter further.

 

I do understand you are comparing a back-up (Perez) to a starter (Patterson) and their career OBP is nearly the same (slight advantage to Perez).

 

There are too many "potentials" on this team and not enough producers.

 

That's interesting. Neifi has more than 100 more PA than Patterson, I'd call him the starter before Corey. He's been a starter the vast majority of his career, and in Dusty's eyes, he's a legit starter, and would probably start next year, somewhere, if Dusty had the chance.

 

I don't think you understand the point if you are trying to compare their career OBP. Neifi guarantees you poor numbers. It's a lock. He's always done it, he always will. Corey will probably put up poor numbers, but given his rollar coaster career, you never know. He could put up a respectable .340 OBP, and have a rock solid OPS. Corey could do that, Neifi gives you no hope.

 

It's the old Cubs mentality of guaranteeing mediocrity (or worse) rather than striving for excellence (or something resembling excellence).

[brinoch]

I'd like to see Nomar come back next season. I like his attitude, I like his professionalism, and I think he'll be motivated. I also think his injury was a pretty freak occurance. It's rare that someone loses their footing like he did.

 

I agree. That injury could have happened to anyone. It was a fluke. It didn't happen because Nomar is fragile. He just slipped. No amount of conditioning can avoid freak injuries like that.

 

The injury caused the slip, the slip did not cause the injury. The injury was caused in part by Nomar being susceptible to "freak" injuries. He's going to be an enormous risk next year. If he comes back, you have to have Ronny available to back him up. You can't afford another $2.5m .300 OBP in the lineup.

 

I'm not sure that's case. It looked very much like his cleat didn't hold in the ground, and without that support, the abnormal strain on his leg led to the tear -- a basic overextension. I could be wrong; I'm not a doctor, but that's what it looked like to me.

 

Cedeno needs to be on this team, one way or another. If we don't sign Nomar or Furcal, Cedeno needs to start at SS, NOT 2B. Walker and Cedeno up the middle would be tremendously cost-effective.

[goonys evil twin]

I'd like to see Nomar come back next season. I like his attitude, I like his professionalism, and I think he'll be motivated. I also think his injury was a pretty freak occurance. It's rare that someone loses their footing like he did.

 

I agree. That injury could have happened to anyone. It was a fluke. It didn't happen because Nomar is fragile. He just slipped. No amount of conditioning can avoid freak injuries like that.

 

The injury caused the slip, the slip did not cause the injury. The injury was caused in part by Nomar being susceptible to "freak" injuries. He's going to be an enormous risk next year. If he comes back, you have to have Ronny available to back him up. You can't afford another $2.5m .300 OBP in the lineup.

 

I'm not sure that's case. It looked very much like his cleat didn't hold in the ground, and without that support, the abnormal strain on his leg led to the tear -- a basic overextension. I could be wrong; I'm not a doctor, but that's what it looked like to me.

 

Cedeno needs to be on this team, one way or another. If we don't sign Nomar or Furcal, Cedeno needs to start at SS, NOT 2B. Walker and Cedeno up the middle would be tremendously cost-effective.

 

So you think that was a completely fluking injury with no relation to the fact that Nomar has been falling apart the past couple years, and that it could have happened to anybody? Drew getting hit by a pitch is a freak injury that could happen to anybody. Prior getting hit by a line drive square on the elbow is a freak injury that could happen to anybody. Nomar's groin injury was no fluke. It's wasn't predictable, specifically, but it had a lot more to do with Nomar being Nomar than an ill-timed bad step. That's about as "freakish" as Fox mysteriously having his elbow blow out on his 29th pitch during a back to back outing, having thrown 64 pitches in 3 days.

[TheDude]

So you think that was a completely fluking injury with no relation to the fact that Nomar has been falling apart the past couple years, and that it could have happened to anybody? Drew getting hit by a pitch is a freak injury that could happen to anybody. Prior getting hit by a line drive square on the elbow is a freak injury that could happen to anybody. Nomar's groin injury was no fluke. It's wasn't predictable, specifically, but it had a lot more to do with Nomar being Nomar than an ill-timed bad step. That's about as "freakish" as Fox mysteriously having his elbow blow out on his 29th pitch during a back to back outing, having thrown 64 pitches in 3 days.

I couldn't disagree more. Some things are flukes. You first have to show that Nomar's injury history has anything to do with the current injury before a causal link can be established.

 

Injury History:

1996 Ankle (minor leagues) - brief

1998 Shoulder - brief

1999 Elbow - brief

2000 Back - brief

2001 Wrist - first major injury

2004 Achilles - 2nd major injury

2005 Groin - 3rd major injury

 

Note that none of these are surface-related. I would consider both the groin and wrist injuries to be "freakish", but I don't know enough about the others to comment.

[Wheelimus]

Thing is, they're saying that Nomar may be open to a position change. So why not try to get him for $4 million plus another $6 in incentives if he does well, and put him in left field? Sign Giles to play left, and either play Ronny at short, or sign Furcal to play short.

 

How about this lineup

 

Furcal - SS

Walker - 2B

Lee - 1B

Aram - 3B

Giles - RF

Garciaparra - LF

Barrett - C

"god only knows" - CF

 

Not bad, not bad at all. In the above scenario, I send Matt Murton to winter ball to play Center Field, with the instruction to specifically work on his arm strength so he can adequately play the position. And then, spring training, it's a shootout between him, Patterson, and Hairston.

 

Presuming in a perfect world that Patterson rebounds, then you still have Hairston, Cedeno, and Murton on the bench as the primary backups, giving everyone all the rest they could need, and keeping everyone healthy. And if there's an injury, we have adequate protection.

 

Sign Nomar for 4, Furcal for 10 for 3 years, Giles for about the same.

[goonys evil twin]

I couldn't disagree more. Some things are flukes. You first have to show that Nomar's injury history has anything to do with the current injury before a causal link can be established.

 

You do not have to show that link.

 

If a corporation repeatedly misses earnings estimates, but each time they do so there is a seemingly innocent reason why, do we say it's a healthy company.

 

The trend is your friend. Anybody who was genuinely surprised that Nomar suffered a serious injury in 2005 should be ashamed of themselves.

[goonys evil twin]

Sign Nomar for 4, Furcal for 10 for 3 years, Giles for about the same.

 

Furcal isn't worthy anywhere near that number. Not even close.

[Magnetic Curses]

Sign Nomar for 4, Furcal for 10 for 3 years, Giles for about the same.

 

Furcal isn't worthy anywhere near that number. Not even close.

 

which is why we keep nomar and try to add giles and (please don't hurt me) lofton, who'd offer the most reasonable stopgap. it also would probably give us the ability to add some pitching help, preferably burnett.

 

i honestly don't think a lineup of:

 

lofton

walker

lee

giles

ramirez

nomar

murton

barrett

 

looks that bad.

[goonys evil twin]

Sign Nomar for 4, Furcal for 10 for 3 years, Giles for about the same.

 

Furcal isn't worthy anywhere near that number. Not even close.

 

which is why we keep nomar and try to add giles and (please don't hurt me) lofton, who'd offer the most reasonable stopgap. it also would probably give us the ability to add some pitching help, preferably burnett.

 

i honestly don't think a lineup of:

 

lofton

walker

lee

giles

ramirez

nomar

murton

barrett

 

looks that bad.

 

I'm not a big Lofton fan, but I wouldn't have a problem signing him affordably, and I'd be very interested in that lineup.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Lofton's in for a steep decline when his BABIP catches up to him. If LA really is interested in moving Bradley, we should be all over that.

[mg420]

Lofton's in for a steep decline when his BABIP catches up to him. If LA really is interested in moving Bradley, we should be all over that.

 

bradley is a major head case (not to mention a wife beater). no thanks.

[Magnetic Curses]

Lofton's in for a steep decline when his BABIP catches up to him. If LA really is interested in moving Bradley, we should be all over that.

 

what's his LD% to go along with that?

 

and i agree with the bradley thing.