Would You Want to Replace Hendry with J.P. ?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Im not really sold on JP yet. I realize he hasn't been working with the budget that Hendry has, but Corey Koskie and Shea Hillenbrand are pretty lousy signings if you ask me.

 

well...JP uses stats/probability to pick a player. it isn't a full proof method, but the likelihood of him picking a solid player over the traditional scout method is appreciably greater. it may take time before we see it, but it will happen given enough time.

 

I hear ya...and I agree, it is a better method of trying to build a team. It's just that Shea Hillenbrand has walked 25 times this year in 550+ ABs: sounds like a Hendry player to me. I think the stats stuff is great, it is foolish to think that GMs still ignore stuff that could give them an advantage. But just because GMs acknowledge these "newer" statistics, or try to use them to their advantage, does not gurantee success. The Rockies are a pretty good example, course the thin air makes that necessary I guess :?

 

hahaha, true.

 

it's just ridiculous that we keep spending so much money to field a poor performing team. it almost makes me wish the Trib. Co. would slash our budget by 50-60% and make us develop a cheap source of talent year after year, rather than overpaying for almost every veteran on our team.

 

JH isn't horrible, I just can't stand his choice for our manager. If someone isn't getting it done and is part of the problem rather than the solution, give 'em the axe. :twisted:

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

JP comes off to me as solid, he's made the Jays a pretty solid team and stocked their system with solid talent. But not one guy he's drafted stands out as a possible future star, the system is full of guys like Russ Adams, Aaron Hill, and Adam Lind, solid players who don't K, draw walks, and may or may not hit for power. Even their pitchers are like that

 

I think he'd do OK for us, but people will more than likely get impaitent with just being solid. The Blue Jays scare teams, but I think more because they are good enough to spoil more than because the teams think they can contend.

 

Which is why Grady Fuson entices me so much, has any team taken him? I think the Padres...maybe? He finds a shiteload of good talent...

[SouthSideRyan]

Im not really sold on JP yet. I realize he hasn't been working with the budget that Hendry has, but Corey Koskie and Shea Hillenbrand are pretty lousy signings if you ask me.

 

well...JP uses stats/probability to pick a player. it isn't a full proof method, but the likelihood of him picking a solid player over the traditional scout method is appreciably greater. it may take time before we see it, but it will happen given enough time.

 

BASED ON WHAT?? Everyone keeps spouting off old-schoolesque cliches about Ricciardi and nobody seems to have a single shred of evidence as to why he's a better GM than Hendry.

[RynoRules]

Im not really sold on JP yet. I realize he hasn't been working with the budget that Hendry has, but Corey Koskie and Shea Hillenbrand are pretty lousy signings if you ask me.

 

well...JP uses stats/probability to pick a player. it isn't a full proof method, but the likelihood of him picking a solid player over the traditional scout method is appreciably greater. it may take time before we see it, but it will happen given enough time.

 

BASED ON WHAT?? Everyone keeps spouting off old-schoolesque cliches about Ricciardi and nobody seems to have a single shred of evidence as to why he's a better GM than Hendry.

 

=D>

 

I just don't get this convo. What - other than pure speculation - makes all of you think that he is a "better" GM than JH? IMO, he's shown a lack of judgment in his offseason acquisitions. Koskie is a nice player, but they already had guys to play on the corners of the IF. What they needed was some back-end bullpen help, or even another starter to take the pressure off of Halladay (Lily, who Riccardi has constatly touted, has been brutal).

 

I prefer not to say this (b/c it almost always comes off as antaganistic), but I think some of you like this guy simply due to his former association w/ Mr. Beane.

 

For reference purposes:

Koskie in 2005: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6110

And career: http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/koskico01.shtml

 

Jay's roster: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/roster?team=tor

[Magnetic Curses]

I prefer not to say this (b/c it almost always comes off as antaganistic), but I think some of you like this guy simply due to his former association w/ Mr. Beane.

 

conversely, i'd say that many dislike JP simply because of his former association with Beane.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I prefer not to say this (b/c it almost always comes off as antaganistic), but I think some of you like this guy simply due to his former association w/ Mr. Beane.

 

conversely, i'd say that many dislike JP simply because of his former association with Beane.

 

I haven't heard much objection to Fredi Gonzalez as the next manager of the Cubs if Dusty is removed. Why do people want him? Because of his association to Cox and Schuerholz, and the system they have that many posters agree with. Why wouldn't the same thing hold true with the GM position? I'm not saying I want Ricciardi, I really haven't looked at what he's done very much. But, it's not a bad thing at all to prefer someone associated with the epitome of the system you like when the original(Cox, Beane) is unavailable.

[UK1679666180]

I haven't heard much objection to Fredi Gonzalez as the next manager of the Cubs if Dusty is removed. Why do people want him? Because of his association to Cox and Schuerholz, and the system they have that many posters agree with.

 

I think it is more than justified to be part of the reasoning if a pedigree background is an added bonus. I think Riccardi is a solid playing in the toughest division in MLB with a modest payroll, I think that is where the "moneyball" or whatever poor label attached philosophy is best suited. Personally, I think with the payroll of the Cubs is best suited for higher ceiling players and put faith in your minor league instructors and scouts' ability to promote the players.

 

This is part of the reasoning behind why I want Dayton Moore, part of that has to do with who he learned from (Schuerholz) and what he has provided to deserve the promotion.

 

Dayton Moore, director of player personnel, Braves

 

Though he was initially reluctant to move from coaching into scouting, Moore has flourished in a variety of roles since joining the Braves as a scouting supervisor in 1994. A former assistant coach at George Mason, the 36-year-old Moore was promoted in 1996 to the baseball operations department, where he's continued to take on increasing responsibility in subsequent years. Moore, who was called a "John Schuerholz in the making" by more than one executive polled, served as assistant scouting director, assistant farm director and international scouting director before moving into his current role. "He's on top of everything," another executive said. "He speaks up and has aggressive ideas."

[Magnetic Curses]

What has Ricciardi done, other than being lumped in with the sabr GMs to deserve such praise?

 

not much, but he had a terrible payroll to pare down and a system to cultivate. it's not like you can just change the course of a franchise in 3-4 years.

 

So you're admitting that Ricciardi has done nothing to warrant the thoughts of him being better than Hendry.

 

why do you hate him so much? does it bother the "old school" fan in you?

 

it must also bother you that beane continues to be successful in oakland despite losing his 2 top starters, a move that many "smallballers" said would be his undoing because his "system" doesn't work.

[Tim]

Actually, I do remember some around here who don't like Beane saying that this would be the year where he'd fall down because he didn't have Hudson and Mulder. That if he managed to win this year without the "big three" in place that they'd finally be convinced there must be something to his methods.

 

Huh.

[RynoRules]

What has Ricciardi done, other than being lumped in with the sabr GMs to deserve such praise?

 

not much, but he had a terrible payroll to pare down and a system to cultivate. it's not like you can just change the course of a franchise in 3-4 years.

 

So you're admitting that Ricciardi has done nothing to warrant the thoughts of him being better than Hendry.

 

why do you hate him so much? does it bother the "old school" fan in you?

 

it must also bother you that beane continues to be successful in oakland despite losing his 2 top starters, a move that many "smallballers" said would be his undoing because his "system" doesn't work.

 

That's a major genralization. The topic here is whether we'd take JP over JH. My answer is simply, "no" b/c he his teams haven't been to the playoffs and their talent level, top to bottom, is not greater than the Cubs', IMHO.

 

I don't know why I have to repeat this for the thousandth time, but here it goes: I don't dislike Beane's methodologies. For the most part (w/ some exceptions) I think they are thoughtful and effective.

 

However, based on how he was depicted in "Moneyball", I don't particularly like his personality.

 

And re this bd.: IMHO, some (not all; not even most) of the posters here appear to follow his philosophies to the letter and take their defense of the same to extremes.

[neely crenshaw]

i would prefer illinois native dayton moore. he is in award winning front office guy with atlanta. one of the main guys in devolping their mnr league system. i think he may have an idea of how to run this club.

[SouthSideRyan]

What has Ricciardi done, other than being lumped in with the sabr GMs to deserve such praise?

 

not much, but he had a terrible payroll to pare down and a system to cultivate. it's not like you can just change the course of a franchise in 3-4 years.

 

So you're admitting that Ricciardi has done nothing to warrant the thoughts of him being better than Hendry.

 

why do you hate him so much? does it bother the "old school" fan in you?

 

it must also bother you that beane continues to be successful in oakland despite losing his 2 top starters, a move that many "smallballers" said would be his undoing because his "system" doesn't work.

 

Find em, sully. Find the posts where I talk about how I hate these complicated and crazy stats. They're too much for my feeble brain!! Find the post where I said Beane's system doesn't work. Find some sort of evidence other than me occassionally suggesting that Beane isn't the best GM in the game, or that everyone that worked for the A's would be a great GM. Please find these things, otherwise I'd appreciate if you stopped lying repeatedly about me when the topic of Beane comes up.

[Magnetic Curses]

What has Ricciardi done, other than being lumped in with the sabr GMs to deserve such praise?

 

not much, but he had a terrible payroll to pare down and a system to cultivate. it's not like you can just change the course of a franchise in 3-4 years.

 

So you're admitting that Ricciardi has done nothing to warrant the thoughts of him being better than Hendry.

 

why do you hate him so much? does it bother the "old school" fan in you?

 

it must also bother you that beane continues to be successful in oakland despite losing his 2 top starters, a move that many "smallballers" said would be his undoing because his "system" doesn't work.

 

Find em, sully. Find the posts where I talk about how I hate these complicated and crazy stats. They're too much for my feeble brain!! Find the post where I said Beane's system doesn't work. Find some sort of evidence other than me occassionally suggesting that Beane isn't the best GM in the game, or that everyone that worked for the A's would be a great GM. Please find these things, otherwise I'd appreciate if you stopped lying repeatedly about me when the topic of Beane comes up.

 

let me just say that whenever the topic of beane comes up, i know which stance you're going to take. and it's never pro.

[SouthSideRyan]

Like when we ranked the GMs, and I had him listed 4th. One of 4 guys that I described as great GMs.

[Magnetic Curses]

Like when we ranked the GMs, and I had him listed 4th. One of 4 guys that I described as great GMs.

 

my apologies, then, but it seems you're always badmouthing him.

[cubweiser03]

Im not really sold on JP yet. I realize he hasn't been working with the budget that Hendry has, but Corey Koskie and Shea Hillenbrand are pretty lousy signings if you ask me.

 

well...JP uses stats/probability to pick a player. it isn't a full proof method, but the likelihood of him picking a solid player over the traditional scout method is appreciably greater. it may take time before we see it, but it will happen given enough time.

 

BASED ON WHAT?? Everyone keeps spouting off old-schoolesque cliches about Ricciardi and nobody seems to have a single shred of evidence as to why he's a better GM than Hendry.

 

=D>

 

I just don't get this convo. What - other than pure speculation - makes all of you think that he is a "better" GM than JH? IMO, he's shown a lack of judgment in his offseason acquisitions. Koskie is a nice player, but they already had guys to play on the corners of the IF. What they needed was some back-end bullpen help, or even another starter to take the pressure off of Halladay (Lily, who Riccardi has constatly touted, has been brutal).

 

I prefer not to say this (b/c it almost always comes off as antaganistic), but I think some of you like this guy simply due to his former association w/ Mr. Beane.

 

For reference purposes:

Koskie in 2005: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6110

And career: http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/koskico01.shtml

 

Jay's roster: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/roster?team=tor

 

Can i add not resigning Chris Carpenter to his list of bad offseason decisions. Bad, very bad. To me he is riding the coattails of beane and moneyball.

 

EDIT: They released him and gave up on him.

[Magnetic Curses]

Im not really sold on JP yet. I realize he hasn't been working with the budget that Hendry has, but Corey Koskie and Shea Hillenbrand are pretty lousy signings if you ask me.

 

well...JP uses stats/probability to pick a player. it isn't a full proof method, but the likelihood of him picking a solid player over the traditional scout method is appreciably greater. it may take time before we see it, but it will happen given enough time.

 

BASED ON WHAT?? Everyone keeps spouting off old-schoolesque cliches about Ricciardi and nobody seems to have a single shred of evidence as to why he's a better GM than Hendry.

 

=D>

 

I just don't get this convo. What - other than pure speculation - makes all of you think that he is a "better" GM than JH? IMO, he's shown a lack of judgment in his offseason acquisitions. Koskie is a nice player, but they already had guys to play on the corners of the IF. What they needed was some back-end bullpen help, or even another starter to take the pressure off of Halladay (Lily, who Riccardi has constatly touted, has been brutal).

 

I prefer not to say this (b/c it almost always comes off as antaganistic), but I think some of you like this guy simply due to his former association w/ Mr. Beane.

 

For reference purposes:

Koskie in 2005: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6110

And career: http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/koskico01.shtml

 

Jay's roster: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/roster?team=tor

 

Can i add not resigning Chris Carpenter to his list of bad offseason decisions. Bad, very bad. To me he is riding the coattails of beane and moneyball.

 

EDIT: They released him and gave up on him.

 

Chris Carpenter didn't start showing anything until he got to the cards, he was a rebuilt pitcher who wasn't all that great to begin with. if anything carpenter is a feather in dencan's cap, not a smudge on JP's resume.

[UK1679666180]

i would prefer illinois native dayton moore. he is in award winning front office guy with atlanta. one of the main guys in devolping their mnr league system. i think he may have an idea of how to run this club.

 

Join the Moore fanclub...

 

If you joined there would be 2.