what about brandon inge

[dacheezwhiz]

if hes gettable i think it would be a great addition to our team. He can back up aramis on a daily basis and can be our third catcher so we can let macias go without worrying about emergency catcher situations. anyone agree?

[Warpticon]

Inge really is a Macias with much better defense and more of a clue at the plate. I'd like to have him as a supersub type, but he can probably start for somebody and get more money.

[UK1679666180]

As far as being a teammate, I've heard less than cordial things about him.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Anyone know how they spell luck nowadays? It's spelled I-N-G-E.

[Sabermetrician]

Anyone know how they spell luck nowadays? It's spelled I-N-G-E.

 

2 good offensive seasons back to back is luck?

 

He wasn't hitting as a catcher because it wore him down to much...ever since he started playing different positions aside of catcher (CF, LF, and mainly 3B) he's been a good offensive player.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Anyone know how they spell luck nowadays? It's spelled I-N-G-E.

 

2 good offensive seasons back to back is luck?

 

He wasn't hitting as a catcher because it wore him down to much...ever since he started playing different positions aside of catcher (CF, LF, and mainly 3B) he's been a good offensive player.

 

No, hitting 30 points better than your BABIP says you should makes you lucky.

[Sabermetrician]

Here's the problem with BABIP: People assume that once you make contact, you have no control over where the ball goes. Wrong. Good hitters know how and where to hit the ball, they study how the infield and outfield is playing and adjust to that as a hitter. Example: Maybe a steal is on and the shortstop goes to cover second. The hitter recognizes that and hits a ground ball exactly to where the shortstop was playing and it goes through for a single. A .340 OBP followed by a .337 OBP this year isn't luck, because he's obviously doing something right.

 

Not that any of this matters though, because Inge won't be going anywhere this offseason anyway. I'm sure the Tigers want a bigger power threat at 3B, but there's no one that fits that bill in free agency.

[nilodnayr]

Here's the problem with BABIP: People assume that once you make contact, you have no control over where the ball goes. Wrong. Good hitters know how and where to hit the ball, they study how the infield and outfield is playing and adjust to that as a hitter. Example: Maybe a steal is on and the shortstop goes to cover second. The hitter recognizes that and hits a ground ball exactly to where the shortstop was playing and it goes through for a single. A .340 OBP followed by a .337 OBP this year isn't luck, because he's obviously doing something right.

 

Not that any of this matters though, because Inge won't be going anywhere this offseason anyway. I'm sure the Tigers want a bigger power threat at 3B, but there's no one that fits that bill in free agency.

 

Exactly, good players have control over where they ball goes, Kirby Puckett and Tony Gwynn are perfect examples. However, guys like Neifi Perez just stick the bat out there and whatever happens happens. Now, Im not saying that Inge is like Neifi, but Id say hes more Neifi than Kirby. How has Inge done in the second half? Maybe he forgot how to be a good hitter.

[Tracer Bullet]

Here's the problem with BABIP: People assume that once you make contact, you have no control over where the ball goes. Wrong. Good hitters know how and where to hit the ball, they study how the infield and outfield is playing and adjust to that as a hitter. Example: Maybe a steal is on and the shortstop goes to cover second. The hitter recognizes that and hits a ground ball exactly to where the shortstop was playing and it goes through for a single. A .340 OBP followed by a .337 OBP this year isn't luck, because he's obviously doing something right.

 

Not that any of this matters though, because Inge won't be going anywhere this offseason anyway. I'm sure the Tigers want a bigger power threat at 3B, but there's no one that fits that bill in free agency.

 

Are you serious? You think a "good hitter" can hit the ball exactly where they want (i.e., hitting the ball in the hole left by the SS covering 2nd)? If that were true, wouldn't said hitter hit the ball into a hole in every AB (b/t SS & 3rd, SS & 2B, or 1B & 2B)?

[Diffusion]

Anyone know how they spell luck nowadays? It's spelled I-N-G-E.

 

2 good offensive seasons back to back is luck?

 

He wasn't hitting as a catcher because it wore him down to much...ever since he started playing different positions aside of catcher (CF, LF, and mainly 3B) he's been a good offensive player.

 

No, hitting 30 points better than your BABIP says you should makes you lucky.

 

Erm, Inge's BABIP this year is .315, and his BABIP last year was .316. Not only are those numbers somewhat consistent (though his strikeouts and home run rates have both deteriorated significantly enough this year, which is why his average has dipped to a bleh .263), but they're not particularly high or lucky.

 

The trouble with Inge isn't BABIP (although it was earlier this year, but that's corrected itself as tends to happen), it's that he strikes out loads, which suppresses his batting average and I suppose doesn't make him a particularly good situational hitter. However, his power is pretty decent and he walks often enough, so he's definately someone you have to consider as a backup 3B/third catcher type if he comes cheaply enough and is available. But the trouble with that is that Inge isn't a free agent until after the 2007 season, and the Tigers aren't likely to non-tender him because he's a useful player (unless there's something off the field that I haven't heard of). Furthermore, if he ever became available, he probably would have offers to start at 3B, not just be a backup.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Anyone know how they spell luck nowadays? It's spelled I-N-G-E.

 

2 good offensive seasons back to back is luck?

 

He wasn't hitting as a catcher because it wore him down to much...ever since he started playing different positions aside of catcher (CF, LF, and mainly 3B) he's been a good offensive player.

 

No, hitting 30 points better than your BABIP says you should makes you lucky.

 

Erm, Inge's BABIP this year is .315, and his BABIP last year was .316. Not only are those numbers somewhat consistent (though his strikeouts and home run rates have both deteriorated significantly enough this year, which is why his average has dipped to a bleh .263), but they're not particularly high or lucky.

 

Huh, THT has him at .320 this year and .322 last year, both at least 25 points higher than his 18% LD% might predict.

[Sabermetrician]

Here's the problem with BABIP: People assume that once you make contact, you have no control over where the ball goes. Wrong. Good hitters know how and where to hit the ball, they study how the infield and outfield is playing and adjust to that as a hitter. Example: Maybe a steal is on and the shortstop goes to cover second. The hitter recognizes that and hits a ground ball exactly to where the shortstop was playing and it goes through for a single. A .340 OBP followed by a .337 OBP this year isn't luck, because he's obviously doing something right.

 

Not that any of this matters though, because Inge won't be going anywhere this offseason anyway. I'm sure the Tigers want a bigger power threat at 3B, but there's no one that fits that bill in free agency.

 

Are you serious? You think a "good hitter" can hit the ball exactly where they want (i.e., hitting the ball in the hole left by the SS covering 2nd)? If that were true, wouldn't said hitter hit the ball into a hole in every AB (b/t SS & 3rd, SS & 2B, or 1B & 2B)?

 

If you go with an outside pitch and hit it off the end of the bat, does it not go to right field (as a righty)?

 

That's what I mean. Batters can adjust to where a defense is playing and find the holes by the way they swing. No one can always do it, of course, but Inge doesn't just go up to the plate looking for something to swing at and hope that it gets through the infield. Players who have no plate discipline and go up there hacking are "lucky." Inge goes with the pitch and finds holes and that's what makes him a good hitter.

[MPrior]

Agreed. Hitters do have some level of control over where they put the ball. It's called bat control. If they didn't, a hit and run would not really be a feasible play - it just wouldn't exist.

[neely crenshaw]

they have some control but if a defense is playing a certain way the pitcher will pitch to the defense. you cannot take an inside 95 mph fastball the other way..not even tony gwynn.

[Diffusion]

Anyone know how they spell luck nowadays? It's spelled I-N-G-E.

 

2 good offensive seasons back to back is luck?

 

He wasn't hitting as a catcher because it wore him down to much...ever since he started playing different positions aside of catcher (CF, LF, and mainly 3B) he's been a good offensive player.

 

No, hitting 30 points better than your BABIP says you should makes you lucky.

 

Erm, Inge's BABIP this year is .315, and his BABIP last year was .316. Not only are those numbers somewhat consistent (though his strikeouts and home run rates have both deteriorated significantly enough this year, which is why his average has dipped to a bleh .263), but they're not particularly high or lucky.

 

Huh, THT has him at .320 this year and .322 last year, both at least 25 points higher than his 18% LD% might predict.

 

THT use the wrong formula though. They use the formula (H-HR)/(AB-K-HR). However, a sacrifice fly is a ball in play, so the proper formula is (H-HR)/(AB+SF-K-HR). That correction always knocks a few points off BABIP, that's what's accounting for the slight difference there.

 

As for line drives, I just don't trust them any more. THT themselves proved that the correlation between line drive percentage in Year X and Year X+1 for any given player isn't particularly strong. So either hitting line drives isn't an ability, which I don't believe, or the way that Baseball Info Solutions score balls in play is unreliable. Define a line drive. That I suspect is the problem, that that definition changes from scorer to scorer and over time too.

 

Anyway, I don't see anything much in Inge's numbers that suggests that him hitting .264 now is a fluke. I think his strikeout rate is marginally high relative to where it should be, so even if his BABIP is marginally high too, I don't think he's got that much to worry about average wise. Besides the fact he's a natural .265 hitter or whatever, which isn't great, obviously.

[Diffusion]

Also, there are more things to consider regarding BABIP than just line drives. Flyballs, infield flyballs, groundballs, foulouts, quality of pitchers faced, quality of defences faced, how pitchers are pitching him, how defences are playing him, ballparks, and confidence has a lot to do with it too. Because so much of that is untracked statistically, that's why you see huge variations in BABIP, and therefore in BA, and why it's so impossible to predict exactly what a player will hit in the future. Sure, you can have a natural level which over thousands of at-bats you'll trend to, but over any given sample size of tens or (low-)hundreds of at-bats, half the time you can just throw natural level out of the window because there are just too many variables. It's just about impossible to predict what'll happen. Who'd have predicted that Todd Helton would have a 17-for-112 slump this year?

[katway]

they have some control but if a defense is playing a certain way the pitcher will pitch to the defense. you cannot take an inside 95 mph fastball the other way..not even tony gwynn.

 

The great hitters can inside-out an inside fastball. It is what seperates them from the crowd. Pitchers commonly go inside with 2 strikes and the great hitters can take that pitch up the middle or to the opposite field. Tony Gwynn excelled at it, as did his hitting idol Ted Williams.

 

It’s called “staying inside the ball”, and it was integral to their success. An inside-out stroke allows a hitter to wait longer and make contact deeper in the hitting zones so they can take an inside fastball the other way. In Ted Williams’ book, The Science of Hitting, Ted noted that he went from being a good hitter to a great hitter when he learned how to inside-out the fastball on the inside corner with two strikes. Tony Gwynn also had this ability as did others like Rod Carew, Wade Boggs, Don Mattingly, etc...