Blow it up

[tgk]

Tim, I'll defer to your wisdom if you think this should be in rants.

:)

 

I've been a Cubs fan for Over 20 years. I was sure they'd win it all in '84, dealt with the heartache when they blew it. The collapse in '85 hurt, '89 was terrible, I despaired when Maddux left and Sandberg first retired, suffered through the early 90s, was justified in being pessimistic in '98, dissappointed in 2001 and my heart literally broke in 2003. I haven't watched the game the same since.

 

And with that in mind, I say blow it up. Unless you're the Cardinals (who seem to have signed a pact with the Devil) you cannot rely on retreads having career years. Every now and then you get lucky, but for the most part it doesn't work.

 

So again, blow it up. Not a fire sale, but a youth movement with a plan.

 

You've got two stud position players whose are signed to reasonable contracts. Trade them both for this off season for stud kids that are ready to play. Derek Lee would look great in Fenway (Hanley Ramirez would be a nice return if you can get him) and I'm sure you could find a taker for Aramis Ramirez. As for Patterson, I'd hate to see him put it together somewhere else, but it is obvious it isn't going to happen here. Get what you can for him and wish him well. (Just don't send him to St. Louis or the White Sox)

 

Put Murton in Left, Richad Lewis at second and Cedeno at short. If Pie and Dopairk (I know it's spelled wrong) are ready, let them start next season. If not, sign stop gaps for a year who you can replace midway though the year if the kids step up. I wouldn't mind Barrett being around, you are going to need veteran leadership. Also, what you get back in trades needs to be ready to play and will affect the line-up.

 

Lock up Z and Prior to long-term deals. Put Wood in the rotation next year and trade him at the All-Star break if he's healthy and will waive his no-trade clause. Give Hill and Williams starting spots and see what they can do. If Maddux wants to come back, (Doubtful considering the rest of the team and his previous statements about why he would return) fine. If not, use the opportunity to take a look at your next best option, whether it is someone you already have or someone who comes in via trade.

 

Lastly, eat the final $4 mil on Dusty's contract and send him on his way. I cannot say he's been awful, but he definitely would not fit with this roster. Bring in someone who works well with a young team, give them the security of a 3-4 year deal and turn 'em loose.

 

The Cubs would absolutely suck next year. But the profits would be there as payroll would be about 1/2 of what it is now so it shouldn't concern the Tribune too much. You could even roll back ticket prices $5 bucks or so to show the fans it's about developing the team, not cash. There would be measurable progress at the end of '07, which would serve to reignite the fan interest.

 

By then the club can identify which kids aren't going to make it and has the money to sign a two or three top-flight free agents to take the place of the ones that won't, and be a real contender for the next several years. Does it guarantee a world championship? No. But it has worked in the past for smaller revenue teams, imagine having a team like Cleveland or Oakland at the end of '07 AND $50 mil to spend to bring in some top talent to put you over the hump.

 

Will it happen, no. Too risky. I admit that it would difficult to watch the club struggle, but I'd happily submit to a couple MORE years of losing if I knew the club was working toward a long-tern goal rather than trying to catch lightning in a bottle every year.

 

Oh well, just my opinion. Let the flogging begin. :lol:

[theOrange]

You could even roll back ticket prices $5 bucks or so to show the fans it's about developing the team, not cash.

 

Never. Ever. Happen.

 

They are and always have been about money 1st, wining second. It is a poorly run organization.

 

Although, i agree with playing the kids.

[synergy]

That's guaranteeing a last place finish for the next 10 years. you don't just put in all unproven rookies in the starting lineup. You still keep some veterans and add maybe a couple rookies in the lineup. Aram isn't old he's what.....26? And D. Lee is like 27 or somewhere around there. Have you seen Dopirak? If you think Corey's bad, wait till you see Dopirak. He has horrendous defense and strikesout like there is no tomorrow. He will get eaten up at Wrigley. And you want Richard Lewis at 2b? you don't watch minor league baseball at all. everyone knows that Eric Patterson would be up before Richard Lewis will as 2nd baseman. I agree with Murton. Cedeno should be up. Pie, I'm not so sure yet. he K's a whole lot. I don't want him to be another Patterson.

[SAMMYWHO]

It's such a touchy subject but I wouldn't drop an atomic bomb on the cubs just yet. I agree Barrett stays. I would keep most guys but get rid of the entire bench except Blanco. Get rid of Burnitz because he'll be to expensive. I loved the one year rental though for the record. Keep Nomar and Cedeno. Keep Walker. Basically the whole starting infield. I have no opinion on Lawton or Corey. I'll let Hendry surprise me on the outfield and most of the bench. We need two stud pitchers. One in the pen and a starter. I wouldn't care if somebody stepped up huge internally like a Hill or Guzman. Free up some money for a stud outfielder in a trade. Just my two cents.

[tgk]

That's guaranteeing a last place finish for the next 10 years. you don't just put in all unproven rookies in the starting lineup. You still keep some veterans and add maybe a couple rookies in the lineup. Aram isn't old he's what.....26? And D. Lee is like 27 or somewhere around there. Have you seen Dopirak? If you think Corey's bad, wait till you see Dopirak. He has horrendous defense and strikesout like there is no tomorrow. He will get eaten up at Wrigley. And you want Richard Lewis at 2b? you don't watch minor league baseball at all. everyone knows that Eric Patterson would be up before Richard Lewis will as 2nd baseman. I agree with Murton. Cedeno should be up. Pie, I'm not so sure yet. he K's a whole lot. I don't want him to be another Patterson.

 

Ten years may be a bit of an overstatement, but then again I went a little far this morning as well. :oops:

 

No, I don't keep up with the minors, not like I used to. Job and Family have reduced the amount of idle time. At one point, Lewis was thougt to be next and he's the first name that came to mind. I could just have easily have typed Fontenot. It doesn't really matter. Although I didn mention, at least on Dope and Pie, that if they weren't ready sign a veteran for a year. The same would hold true with Lewis/Fontenot/Patterson at second.

 

As for Lee and Ramirez, my thought is that if you are going to blow it up, don't do it halfway. It would be a minimum of three years before the team would be competitive again and their value would be better served in terms of who they could brind in return to help then instead of wasting their prime production over that time, kind of a Hershel Walker trade.

 

Like I said, I may have gone a bit far, but Dusty's comments in the Trib this morning about not playing kids in Sept. pushed me off the edge. The point remains the same. . I'd rather see them start from scratch then see the cycle repeat endlessly.

[UK1679666180]

I'd like to them develop a plan, right now, I they're trying to win it all without enough pieces to do so, even at the start of the year. I don't Sosa's contract was the difference either.

 

I'd like to see increase spending as far as scouting and signing international FAs, even at the expense of the ML payroll. If the Cubs dropped down to an 80 mil payroll and allocated that money to improving the pipeline, they'd be much better off than trying to plug holes w/ mediocre stopgaps like Hollandsworth and Burnitz.

[mhuber92211]

How many "off-season" type threads must there be? Guys, it isn't even the off season yet and this thread just piles on.

 

Can we at leat make 1 LONG thread about the subject?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

How many "off-season" type threads must there be? Guys, it isn't even the off season yet and this thread just piles on.

 

Can we at leat make 1 LONG thread about the subject?

 

It is the Transactions forum. It's not like off-season threads are bumping current transaction threads to obscurity.

[Jazz]

IMO....

 

 

Give Bobby Cox a blanck check

thats enough to guarantee a divison crown for the next 5 years.

 

 

wow im so jealous of the braves, its a guilty pleasure of mine to root them on, i love that orginazation and hate it at the same time. Love the management and front office, hate the fans.

[Omar]

Guys like Barrett, Lee, Ramirez, Z, Prior, and Patterson should never be traded from the Cubs until their career starts to fade away. You always need veterans on your teams as leaders, and what younger players can look up to, and get pointers from.

 

Of coarse, everyone agrees with firing Dusty..

[Omar]

IMO....

 

 

Give Bobby Cox a blanck check

thats enough to guarantee a divison crown for the next 5 years.

 

 

wow im so jealous of the braves, its a guilty pleasure of mine to root them on, i love that orginazation and hate it at the same time. Love the management and front office, hate the fans.

 

Braves will never give up Cox.. but who I REALLY REALLY REALLY want is Joe Torre. I hope Yankees dont make the playoffs so they'll fire him.

[mhuber92211]

How many "off-season" type threads must there be? Guys, it isn't even the off season yet and this thread just piles on.

 

Can we at leat make 1 LONG thread about the subject?

 

It is the Transactions forum. It's not like off-season threads are bumping current transaction threads to obscurity.

 

:D good point.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I don't think the Cubs need to "blow it up," but I do think they need to assess the talent they have and develop a 2-3 year plan for this team.

 

The Rangers have done such and have yet to deviate. They expected to become contenders in 2006 and that goal has kept them from making short sigthed trades that might have asissted thime in this year or last. Whether that plan will pay off remains to be seen, but at least they have one.

 

I believe after 2003, this organization lost focus. Going into 2003, no one expected a contender right off the bat. We had some young talent coming down the pipeline and there was a plan to let that talent develop and to contend in 2004 or maybe 2005. We got so close in 2003, that the plan was scrapped and much talent traded and money spent to make a run in 2004. Those moves set up the utter collapse of 2005. It's time to regroup, see what we have, and make some realistic assessments about which direction this organization needs to take. We have some good cornerstones, but there are flaws.

[Iceblink]

Jose Macias is playing third. Ronny Cedeno has gotten a handful of ABs. Lawton, Burnitz, and Hollandsworth have gotten the bulk of the OF work.

 

The season has been over for a few weeks now, and we're still running out guys that probably won't even be here next year. And even if they were, these guys are already totally known, declining average players.

 

Next spring training, we'll still be wondering if Murton can hit for 2 weeks straight or if Cedeno can hit at all. When you can't get one young guy into the lineup at all - even when there's not a better option, just an older one - seeing this team go with a youth movement is wishful thinking.

[tgk]

I believe after 2003, this organization lost focus. Going into 2003, no one expected a contender right off the bat. We had some young talent coming down the pipeline and there was a plan to let that talent develop and to contend in 2004 or maybe 2005. We got so close in 2003, that the plan was scrapped and much talent traded and money spent to make a run in 2004. Those moves set up the utter collapse of 2005. It's time to regroup, see what we have, and make some realistic assessments about which direction this organization needs to take. We have some good cornerstones, but there are flaws.

 

See what happens when you take the time to think about it instead of just ranting.

 

Well thought out, consise, and to the point. Probably closer to what I would have written had I taken the time to think it out rather than react. Of course, as a habitual lurker, I probably wouldn't have posted at all if I wasn't ticked.

 

Nicely said.

[JC]

 

Braves will never give up Cox.. but who I REALLY REALLY REALLY want is Joe Torre. I hope Yankees dont make the playoffs so they'll fire him.

 

I've got no particular interest in Torre. If memory serves, his career record as a manager taking the Yankee's cash machine out of the equation is less than .500. Without an All Star roster, there isn't much to be excited about.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I believe after 2003, this organization lost focus. Going into 2003, no one expected a contender right off the bat. We had some young talent coming down the pipeline and there was a plan to let that talent develop and to contend in 2004 or maybe 2005. We got so close in 2003, that the plan was scrapped and much talent traded and money spent to make a run in 2004. Those moves set up the utter collapse of 2005. It's time to regroup, see what we have, and make some realistic assessments about which direction this organization needs to take. We have some good cornerstones, but there are flaws.

 

See what happens when you take the time to think about it instead of just ranting.

 

Well thought out, consise, and to the point. Probably closer to what I would have written had I taken the time to think it out rather than react. Of course, as a habitual lurker, I probably wouldn't have posted at all if I wasn't ticked.

 

Nicely said.

 

I've been thinking about if for sometime. (Just ask Fred. I expounded on this subject with him for about 2 hours during a rain delay in Atlanta back in July.)

 

It was during that losing streak that I realized how flawed this team actually is while at the same time realizing we have the cornerstones of a very nice future. As much as I was electrified by the run in 2003, I think it may have done more harm than good in the long term plans of this franchise. I also think we hired the wrong manager, but that is a thread for another day (or at least those already exist in other places.)

 

Living close to Texas, I've had the advantage of watching Hart and Showalter attempt to build that franchise. While many have clamored for them to trade some of the young talent for pitchers to prop up a run the past two seasons, they have resisted. I think they will be proven wise in this regard.

 

I'm not saying we need to take the same long-term approach, but I would like to think we have a plan and not just reacting all the time.

[LoneStarCubFan]

1. Completely rebuild the bench.

2. Lawton, Burnitz, Walker walk

3. Trade for Adam Dunn

4. Sign Rafael Furcal

5. Explore a deal for Patterson.

6. If Patterson is dealt, find a CF via trade or free agency.

7. Murton is your right fielder

 

Line-up

Furcal

Hairston

Lee

Dunn

Ramirez

Murton

Patterson/New CF

Barrett

 

Bench

Soto

Cedeno

LH Back-up 1B so Lee doesn't have to play every freakin' day.

Back up 3B See 1B

Corner OF

Back up CF/IF It'd be nice if one OF is a switch-hitter

 

Zambrano

Prior

Wood

Maddux

Williams or Hill

 

Dempster

Williamson

Novoa

Wuertz

Rusch

Lefty TBA

[Houston_Cub_Fan]

The only thing that needs to be blown up is the pen. Otherwise, all we need is a true lead-off hitter at either short or center and a true power/rbi guy in either left or right (or both, though I'd like to see Murton get his chance). We have the payroll to address all of these. The ball is totaly in Hendry's court. Unfortunately, it's a weak FA crop. He'll have to get pretty creative.

 

P.S. Why does everyone love Barrett so much. I like the guy and all - nice bat - but he costs us a half a run a game on average when he's calling the pitches vs. Blanco. Not that I want Blanco starting, but it would be nice to find a happy median.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

P.S. Why does everyone love Barrett so much. I like the guy and all - nice bat - but he costs us a half a run a game on average when he's calling the pitches vs. Blanco. Not that I want Blanco starting, but it would be nice to find a happy median.

 

Catcher ERA is a very unreliable tool to measure a catcher's effectiveness. Barrett's been one of if not the top offensive catcher in the NL. We'd be hard pressed to find a better one, and he's signed to a pretty long-term, yet very reasonable contract.