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Posted

This quandry can really be traced back to AGon. Remember, in 2003, AGon and Damien Miller were like a black hole at the bottom of the order, especially factoring in the pitcher spot. Miller, in particular, really struggled offensively, falling well below his career norms. Luckily, even though AGon also fell below career norms, he played out of his head in the playoffs.

 

Come 2004, the Cubs concluded it was easier to rid themselves of Miller than AGon's salary. This, in large part, is indicative of the Cubs' problem. Nevermind that the premier SS in the league was available that offseason, the Cubs could not swallow sitting AGon at the salary he was making. Instead, Hendry chased after one of his long coveted players, Michael Barrett.

 

All of the pitchers seemed to enjoy throwing to Miller. And, in fact, they excelled under his watch. I don't know if there is a correlation for sure, but you have to wonder.

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Posted
it's always a good idea to trade the best offensive catcher in the national league!

 

Are you saying you wouldn't trade him if you could get a more productive player that plays another position in return? I'm for any trade that will improve the team.

 

If it improves the team, though I have to question giving up one of the better offensive bats in the lineup for improved defense, when the offense is one of the biggest problems. He's not untouchable, but he really isn't as big of a problem on this team as, say, SS and all three OFs.

Posted
This quandry can really be traced back to AGon. Remember, in 2003, AGon and Damien Miller were like a black hole at the bottom of the order, especially factoring in the pitcher spot. Miller, in particular, really struggled offensively, falling well below his career norms. Luckily, even though AGon also fell below career norms, he played out of his head in the playoffs.

 

Come 2004, the Cubs concluded it was easier to rid themselves of Miller than AGon's salary. This, in large part, is indicative of the Cubs' problem. Nevermind that the premier SS in the league was available that offseason, the Cubs could not swallow sitting AGon at the salary he was making. Instead, Hendry chased after one of his long coveted players, Michael Barrett.

 

All of the pitchers seemed to enjoy throwing to Miller. And, in fact, they excelled under his watch. I don't know if there is a correlation for sure, but you have to wonder.

 

I don't think it's fair to blame this year's pitching woes on Barrett. I don't have the time or desire to look up stats to back this up, I just can't imagine that his presence alone has made our pitcher's this bad. The fact that we've had to use such a jumbled rotation, including Williams, Hill, Mitre, Rusch, and Koronka (others?) due to injuries and ineffectiveness, I think shows that this is more than just a question of who's doing the catching. Z's been pretty good actually, Maddux is about what you'd expect at this point, Prior hasn't been awful, and we can't blame Barrett for Wood's injuries (I don't think). The bullpen has been very shaky and again I don't think Barrett's presence has really effected them a great deal.

 

I'm not saying you're blaming Barrett, but I don't agree with the argument I think you're making (Miller or another defensive catcher would have a significant effect on the Cubs pitching this year).

Posted
Barrett's alright, but I wouldn't necessarily mourn if he was traded away. I felt last year and still feel that trading Damian Miller away was a mistake, given how well he worked with the staff in 2003. That said, I'm certain that I am far in the minority when it comes to this opinion.
Posted
Barrett's alright, but I wouldn't necessarily mourn if he was traded away. I felt last year and still feel that trading Damian Miller away was a mistake, given how well he worked with the staff in 2003. That said, I'm certain that I am far in the minority when it comes to this opinion.

 

Alright? I think you at least have to admit that he's been a great offensive catcher this year. Again - not that he's untouchable, but he's been one of our most consistent producers this year.

 

I didn't like trading Miller away either. But the offense would really be hurting if you subtracted Barrett's .857 OPS and replaced it with Miller's .710.

Posted
This quandry can really be traced back to AGon. Remember, in 2003, AGon and Damien Miller were like a black hole at the bottom of the order, especially factoring in the pitcher spot. Miller, in particular, really struggled offensively, falling well below his career norms. Luckily, even though AGon also fell below career norms, he played out of his head in the playoffs.

 

Come 2004, the Cubs concluded it was easier to rid themselves of Miller than AGon's salary. This, in large part, is indicative of the Cubs' problem. Nevermind that the premier SS in the league was available that offseason, the Cubs could not swallow sitting AGon at the salary he was making. Instead, Hendry chased after one of his long coveted players, Michael Barrett.

 

All of the pitchers seemed to enjoy throwing to Miller. And, in fact, they excelled under his watch. I don't know if there is a correlation for sure, but you have to wonder.

 

Your analysis here really resonates with me for some reason. Nice job.

Posted
This quandry can really be traced back to AGon. Remember, in 2003, AGon and Damien Miller were like a black hole at the bottom of the order, especially factoring in the pitcher spot. Miller, in particular, really struggled offensively, falling well below his career norms. Luckily, even though AGon also fell below career norms, he played out of his head in the playoffs.

 

Come 2004, the Cubs concluded it was easier to rid themselves of Miller than AGon's salary. This, in large part, is indicative of the Cubs' problem. Nevermind that the premier SS in the league was available that offseason, the Cubs could not swallow sitting AGon at the salary he was making. Instead, Hendry chased after one of his long coveted players, Michael Barrett.

 

All of the pitchers seemed to enjoy throwing to Miller. And, in fact, they excelled under his watch. I don't know if there is a correlation for sure, but you have to wonder.

 

Your analysis here really resonates with me for some reason. Nice job.

 

Could it be because Tejada is making what 12million a year? That seems like a bargain. I still sit around and wonder why we didn't go after him harder.

Posted
This quandry can really be traced back to AGon. Remember, in 2003, AGon and Damien Miller were like a black hole at the bottom of the order, especially factoring in the pitcher spot. Miller, in particular, really struggled offensively, falling well below his career norms. Luckily, even though AGon also fell below career norms, he played out of his head in the playoffs.

 

Come 2004, the Cubs concluded it was easier to rid themselves of Miller than AGon's salary. This, in large part, is indicative of the Cubs' problem. Nevermind that the premier SS in the league was available that offseason, the Cubs could not swallow sitting AGon at the salary he was making. Instead, Hendry chased after one of his long coveted players, Michael Barrett.

 

All of the pitchers seemed to enjoy throwing to Miller. And, in fact, they excelled under his watch. I don't know if there is a correlation for sure, but you have to wonder.

 

Your analysis here really resonates with me for some reason. Nice job.

 

Could it be because Tejada is making what 12million a year? That seems like a bargain. I still sit around and wonder why we didn't go after him harder.

 

As dumb as that move (or non move) looks now, at the time there were doubts about Tejada. He struggled somewhat during his walk year. He also hadn't put together the kind of credentials that made him the kind of sure thing bet that someone like Hendry wanted for what Tejada was going to get.

Posted
Barrett's alright, but I wouldn't necessarily mourn if he was traded away. I felt last year and still feel that trading Damian Miller away was a mistake, given how well he worked with the staff in 2003. That said, I'm certain that I am far in the minority when it comes to this opinion.

 

Alright? I think you at least have to admit that he's been a great offensive catcher this year. Again - not that he's untouchable, but he's been one of our most consistent producers this year.

 

I didn't like trading Miller away either. But the offense would really be hurting if you subtracted Barrett's .857 OPS and replaced it with Miller's .710.

 

I think we can admit that Barrett has good looking numbers. He does seem to tighten up at the plate when the pressure is on (eg, Tuesday night, struck with the bases loaded in 2-0 game and then doubles with the bases loaded in an 8-1 game; Wednesday, strikes out looking as the tying run at the plate on an 0-2 pitch). Also, he is not a good receiver, is very lazy at times about moving his body to block pitches.

 

if another position is upgraded offensively, I would trade Barrett and replace him with a defensive-oriented catcher. This team seems to have no spark and has had none since '03. I think Barrett and Walker, despite their good-looking offensive numbers, are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Posted

Michael Barrett is not this teams problem, whatsoever.

 

He's the best offensive catcher in the NL, enough said. Unless you can convert him to play shortstop next year, lol, you leave him behind the plate. Sorry, but if the pitchers are failing it's because they're failing, saying it's the catchers fault is just making a scapegoat.

 

Instead, how about we hire a really good former catcher to move out to wherever Barrett lives in the offseason, and work with him during the offseason on his game calling and such. You know, instead of throwing away an .850 OPS catcher....

Posted
Barrett's alright, but I wouldn't necessarily mourn if he was traded away. I felt last year and still feel that trading Damian Miller away was a mistake, given how well he worked with the staff in 2003. That said, I'm certain that I am far in the minority when it comes to this opinion.

 

Alright? I think you at least have to admit that he's been a great offensive catcher this year. Again - not that he's untouchable, but he's been one of our most consistent producers this year.

 

I didn't like trading Miller away either. But the offense would really be hurting if you subtracted Barrett's .857 OPS and replaced it with Miller's .710.

 

I think we can admit that Barrett has good looking numbers. He does seem to tighten up at the plate when the pressure is on (eg, Tuesday night, struck with the bases loaded in 2-0 game and then doubles with the bases loaded in an 8-1 game; Wednesday, strikes out looking as the tying run at the plate on an 0-2 pitch). Also, he is not a good receiver, is very lazy at times about moving his body to block pitches.

 

if another position is upgraded offensively, I would trade Barrett and replace him with a defensive-oriented catcher. This team seems to have no spark and has had none since '03. I think Barrett and Walker, despite their good-looking offensive numbers, are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

 

His stats are great for this year and pointing out 2 situations in which he has not come through in a tight game proves nothing. He lead off the 9th w/ a single in a 2-run game last night, so does that prove he's a great clutch hitter? After last night he's hitting .292 with a .357 OBP and .503 SLG. It's just not plausible that all his hits, walks, and power come only when the Cubs are in a blow out.

 

Barrett (.292/.357/.503) and Walker (.302/.351/.468) are part of the problem? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense to me at all.

Posted
Barrett's alright, but I wouldn't necessarily mourn if he was traded away. I felt last year and still feel that trading Damian Miller away was a mistake, given how well he worked with the staff in 2003. That said, I'm certain that I am far in the minority when it comes to this opinion.

 

Alright? I think you at least have to admit that he's been a great offensive catcher this year. Again - not that he's untouchable, but he's been one of our most consistent producers this year.

 

I didn't like trading Miller away either. But the offense would really be hurting if you subtracted Barrett's .857 OPS and replaced it with Miller's .710.

 

I think we can admit that Barrett has good looking numbers. He does seem to tighten up at the plate when the pressure is on (eg, Tuesday night, struck with the bases loaded in 2-0 game and then doubles with the bases loaded in an 8-1 game; Wednesday, strikes out looking as the tying run at the plate on an 0-2 pitch). Also, he is not a good receiver, is very lazy at times about moving his body to block pitches.

 

if another position is upgraded offensively, I would trade Barrett and replace him with a defensive-oriented catcher. This team seems to have no spark and has had none since '03. I think Barrett and Walker, despite their good-looking offensive numbers, are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

 

His stats are great for this year and pointing out 2 situations in which he has not come through in a tight game proves nothing. He lead off the 9th w/ a single in a 2-run game last night, so does that prove he's a great clutch hitter? After last night he's hitting .292 with a .357 OBP and .503 SLG. It's just not plausible that all his hits, walks, and power come only when the Cubs are in a blow out.

 

Barrett (.292/.357/.503) and Walker (.302/.351/.468) are part of the problem? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense to me at all.

 

I'm going to agree with you here. When looking at Barrett and Walker's numbers, they are definitely NOT part of the problem. The problem has been inconsistent starting pitching and an outfield of atrocious production.

 

I don't see why people continue to want to unload the third and fourth best hitters on a team.

Posted
Barrett's alright, but I wouldn't necessarily mourn if he was traded away. I felt last year and still feel that trading Damian Miller away was a mistake, given how well he worked with the staff in 2003. That said, I'm certain that I am far in the minority when it comes to this opinion.

 

Alright? I think you at least have to admit that he's been a great offensive catcher this year. Again - not that he's untouchable, but he's been one of our most consistent producers this year.

 

I didn't like trading Miller away either. But the offense would really be hurting if you subtracted Barrett's .857 OPS and replaced it with Miller's .710.

 

I think we can admit that Barrett has good looking numbers. He does seem to tighten up at the plate when the pressure is on (eg, Tuesday night, struck with the bases loaded in 2-0 game and then doubles with the bases loaded in an 8-1 game; Wednesday, strikes out looking as the tying run at the plate on an 0-2 pitch). Also, he is not a good receiver, is very lazy at times about moving his body to block pitches.

 

if another position is upgraded offensively, I would trade Barrett and replace him with a defensive-oriented catcher. This team seems to have no spark and has had none since '03. I think Barrett and Walker, despite their good-looking offensive numbers, are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

 

His stats are great for this year and pointing out 2 situations in which he has not come through in a tight game proves nothing. He lead off the 9th w/ a single in a 2-run game last night, so does that prove he's a great clutch hitter? After last night he's hitting .292 with a .357 OBP and .503 SLG. It's just not plausible that all his hits, walks, and power come only when the Cubs are in a blow out.

 

Barrett (.292/.357/.503) and Walker (.302/.351/.468) are part of the problem? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense to me at all.

 

I'm going to agree with you here. When looking at Barrett and Walker's numbers, they are definitely NOT part of the problem. The problem has been inconsistent starting pitching and an outfield of atrocious production.

 

I don't see why people continue to want to unload the third and fourth best hitters on a team.

 

Just for a minute assume that Barrett's skills as a reciever are subpar, and they are costing the staff .3 runs/game. Would trading his offensive production for improved pitching be an overall improvement, since our team is built around pitching (in theory) anyway?

 

FWIW, I would trade Barrett, but only if it signifigantly improved another area of need.

Posted

 

Just for a minute assume that Barrett's skills as a reciever are subpar, and they are costing the staff .3 runs/game. Would trading his offensive production for improved pitching be an overall improvement, since our team is built around pitching (in theory) anyway?

 

FWIW, I would trade Barrett, but only if it signifigantly improved another area of need.

 

If he's costing that many runs, maybe. I just don't think that's the case. He may cost the staff a run here or there, but I don't think it's that big a difference. CERA is an unreliable stat and I've yet to see anything definitive that shows Barrett defensively is any worse than a league average catcher.

 

He is far and away above league average for catchers offensively. That isn't disputed. I just think there are many other ways to improve this team than jettisoning Barrett and Walker who are very good and affordable at their positions.

Posted
Just for a minute assume that Barrett's skills as a reciever are subpar, and they are costing the staff .3 runs/game. Would trading his offensive production for improved pitching be an overall improvement, since our team is built around pitching (in theory) anyway?

 

FWIW, I would trade Barrett, but only if it signifigantly improved another area of need.

 

I guess so, if he's really that bad. But I haven't seen anything conclusive, or even persuasive, which demonstrates that. In addition, how many runs is Barrett giving the Cubs with his offense over a replacement-level catcher?

Posted

 

Just for a minute assume that Barrett's skills as a reciever are subpar, and they are costing the staff .3 runs/game. Would trading his offensive production for improved pitching be an overall improvement, since our team is built around pitching (in theory) anyway?

 

FWIW, I would trade Barrett, but only if it signifigantly improved another area of need.

 

If he's costing that many runs, maybe. I just don't think that's the case. He may cost the staff a run here or there, but I don't think it's that big a difference. CERA is an unreliable stat and I've yet to see anything definitive that shows Barrett defensively is any worse than a league average catcher.

 

He is far and away above league average for catchers offensively. That isn't disputed. I just think there are many other ways to improve this team than jettisoning Barrett and Walker who are very good and affordable at their positions.

 

I agree that there are better ways to improve the team without selling off Barrett and Walker, but if the Cubs really intended on building around pitching, I don't see why we aquired Barrett. Walker I can see, because he's left handed, 2B isn't all that tough a defensive position, and we have mostly a strikeout staff anyway.

 

Barrett, though, is indicative of Hendry's love for toolsy players. His offensive skills are there, but there is something about his defense and his handling of the staff that seems not to be there. It might come with experience, but I haven't seen a ton of improvment from last year to this year. He still drops many pitches he should catch-the Philly game is one example of this. He doesn't block the ball well, which is a problem with our mostly slider staff, and I don't think the staff really see him as a calming influence, but that's subjective, and I can only infer it from watching.

 

He doesn't call the pitches, so I can give him a pass there, but I'd like to see him sacrifice a bit of the offense if it meant he'd allow fewer passed balls and help keep the staff's composure.

Posted
I agree that there are better ways to improve the team without selling off Barrett and Walker, but if the Cubs really intended on building around pitching, I don't see why we aquired Barrett. Walker I can see, because he's left handed, 2B isn't all that tough a defensive position, and we have mostly a strikeout staff anyway.

 

Barrett, though, is indicative of Hendry's love for toolsy players. His offensive skills are there, but there is something about his defense and his handling of the staff that seems not to be there. It might come with experience, but I haven't seen a ton of improvment from last year to this year. He still drops many pitches he should catch-the Philly game is one example of this. He doesn't block the ball well, which is a problem with our mostly slider staff, and I don't think the staff really see him as a calming influence, but that's subjective, and I can only infer it from watching.

 

He doesn't call the pitches, so I can give him a pass there, but I'd like to see him sacrifice a bit of the offense if it meant he'd allow fewer passed balls and help keep the staff's composure.

 

I understand your point. And I hope that Barrett improves defensively. This team needs to make some changes before 2006 starts, I just don't think that moving the 28 yr old best offensive catcher in the NL is one of them.

Posted
I agree that there are better ways to improve the team without selling off Barrett and Walker, but if the Cubs really intended on building around pitching, I don't see why we aquired Barrett. Walker I can see, because he's left handed, 2B isn't all that tough a defensive position, and we have mostly a strikeout staff anyway.

 

Barrett, though, is indicative of Hendry's love for toolsy players. His offensive skills are there, but there is something about his defense and his handling of the staff that seems not to be there. It might come with experience, but I haven't seen a ton of improvment from last year to this year. He still drops many pitches he should catch-the Philly game is one example of this. He doesn't block the ball well, which is a problem with our mostly slider staff, and I don't think the staff really see him as a calming influence, but that's subjective, and I can only infer it from watching.

 

He doesn't call the pitches, so I can give him a pass there, but I'd like to see him sacrifice a bit of the offense if it meant he'd allow fewer passed balls and help keep the staff's composure.

 

I understand your point. And I hope that Barrett improves defensively. This team needs to make some changes before 2006 starts, I just don't think that moving the 28 yr old best offensive catcher in the NL is one of them.

 

Would it help to fire Dusty and hire Joe Girardi? Joe was a defensive catcher, maybe he could help!

Posted
I agree that there are better ways to improve the team without selling off Barrett and Walker, but if the Cubs really intended on building around pitching, I don't see why we aquired Barrett. Walker I can see, because he's left handed, 2B isn't all that tough a defensive position, and we have mostly a strikeout staff anyway.

 

Barrett, though, is indicative of Hendry's love for toolsy players. His offensive skills are there, but there is something about his defense and his handling of the staff that seems not to be there. It might come with experience, but I haven't seen a ton of improvment from last year to this year. He still drops many pitches he should catch-the Philly game is one example of this. He doesn't block the ball well, which is a problem with our mostly slider staff, and I don't think the staff really see him as a calming influence, but that's subjective, and I can only infer it from watching.

 

He doesn't call the pitches, so I can give him a pass there, but I'd like to see him sacrifice a bit of the offense if it meant he'd allow fewer passed balls and help keep the staff's composure.

 

I understand your point. And I hope that Barrett improves defensively. This team needs to make some changes before 2006 starts, I just don't think that moving the 28 yr old best offensive catcher in the NL is one of them.

 

Would it help to fire Dusty and hire Joe Girardi? Joe was a defensive catcher, maybe he could help!

 

Couldn't hurt (and not just for Barrett's sake).

Posted

 

I don't see why people continue to want to unload the third and fourth best hitters on a team.

 

Because people dont want to admit what has become reality. Prior and Wood are not that good.....even when healthy. Last year Prior's problems were injuries (according to many). This year...injuries again. He's been healthy awhile .....and not all that good. Im not saying he's bad....but I dont think he's going to be a Clemens or a Maddux. The Cubs were banking on the rotation of Wood,Prior,Z,Maddux and whoever else to lead them to the promised land. THey firgured they could get by with mediocre offense. If the starters were great.....it might have worked.

 

THe plan has failed. Better come up with a new idea. Banking on Wood and Prior is not going to work. Unless they admit that to themselves...we are in for a few more years of watching Wood get hurt and Prior not live up to his hype (and also probably get hurt).

Posted

 

I don't see why people continue to want to unload the third and fourth best hitters on a team.

 

Because people dont want to admit what has become reality. Prior and Wood are not that good.....even when healthy. Last year Prior's problems were injuries (according to many). This year...injuries again. He's been healthy awhile .....and not all that good. Im not saying he's bad....but I dont think he's going to be a Clemens or a Maddux. The Cubs were banking on the rotation of Wood,Prior,Z,Maddux and whoever else to lead them to the promised land. THey firgured they could get by with mediocre offense. If the starters were great.....it might have worked.

 

THe plan has failed. Better come up with a new idea. Banking on Wood and Prior is not going to work. Unless they admit that to themselves...we are in for a few more years of watching Wood get hurt and Prior not live up to his hype (and also probably get hurt).

 

 

all i can say is, wow.

Posted

 

I don't see why people continue to want to unload the third and fourth best hitters on a team.

 

Because people dont want to admit what has become reality. Prior and Wood are not that good.....even when healthy. Last year Prior's problems were injuries (according to many). This year...injuries again. He's been healthy awhile .....and not all that good. Im not saying he's bad....but I dont think he's going to be a Clemens or a Maddux. The Cubs were banking on the rotation of Wood,Prior,Z,Maddux and whoever else to lead them to the promised land. THey firgured they could get by with mediocre offense. If the starters were great.....it might have worked.

 

THe plan has failed. Better come up with a new idea. Banking on Wood and Prior is not going to work. Unless they admit that to themselves...we are in for a few more years of watching Wood get hurt and Prior not live up to his hype (and also probably get hurt).

 

 

all i can say is, wow.

 

Wow? Neither of them has proven to be CONSISTENTLY effective. Both are prone to control problems.....and they get hammered when it happens. Are they talented? Obviously. Prior is middle of the pack in just about everything this season.....and Wood is injured AGAIN. My point was only that to rely on these 2 guys to be supermen and take you to the series is not going to happen. "Not that good" was perhaps a bad choice of words. How about "consistently inconsistent."

Posted

 

I don't see why people continue to want to unload the third and fourth best hitters on a team.

 

Because people dont want to admit what has become reality. Prior and Wood are not that good.....even when healthy. Last year Prior's problems were injuries (according to many). This year...injuries again. He's been healthy awhile .....and not all that good. Im not saying he's bad....but I dont think he's going to be a Clemens or a Maddux. The Cubs were banking on the rotation of Wood,Prior,Z,Maddux and whoever else to lead them to the promised land. THey firgured they could get by with mediocre offense. If the starters were great.....it might have worked.

 

THe plan has failed. Better come up with a new idea. Banking on Wood and Prior is not going to work. Unless they admit that to themselves...we are in for a few more years of watching Wood get hurt and Prior not live up to his hype (and also probably get hurt).

 

 

all i can say is, wow.

 

Wow? Neither of them has proven to be CONSISTENTLY effective. Both are prone to control problems.....and they get hammered when it happens. Are they talented? Obviously. Prior is middle of the pack in just about everything this season.....and Wood is injured AGAIN. My point was only that to rely on these 2 guys to be supermen and take you to the series is not going to happen. "Not that good" was perhaps a bad choice of words. How about "consistently inconsistent."

 

Prior is 18th in the NL in ERA, 11th in WHIP, in a virtual tie for the lead in K/9, 12th in K/BB, 6th in BAA, 7th in OBP against, and 14th in OPS against. If that's middle of the pack, then I'd like plenty of middle of the pack pitchers.

Posted (edited)

I'll never understand the love with Barrett. Yeah, sure he's an avg. hitter, but the guy is just a bonehead and has zero confidence in his catching abilities and you can see it when he goes out to the mound. It goes something like this I would guess " Yeah I know I really don't know what I'm doing and you (the pitcher) know it too, but they told me to come out here. God Bless."

 

The guy just isn't a Catcher. It is so obvious that the Pitchers prefer to throw to Blanco than Barrett and when Blanco Catches, he's in control of the game and when he catches you can see the glaring differences between Barrett and Blanco. I just wish Blanco could hit however.

 

Cubs are 62-68 overall and 20-15 in games Blanco has started.I for one, will not be upset if they get rid of king bonehead, Barrett.

Edited by #2242005CY
Posted
Cubs are 62-68 overall and 20-15 in games Blanco has started.I for one, will not be upset if they get rid of king bonehead, Barrett.

 

i think theres a chance that might have something to do with who pitches when those guys catch.

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