So what's your batting order when Nomar comes back?

[radarluv1]

nomar had an abdominal injury, too, if i remember correctly. you think that would limit the upper body rehab and put him on a different time table than piazza, but like you say everyone is different. cant perez play 3rd, effectively making macias even more waste of the roster space than he already is? i would say to move macias or a pitcher down when nomar is back, but cedeno will get even less PT with a 3rd SS on the team, so moving him down might be a good idea.

[goonys evil twin]

However, even if he did come back, I still wouldn't expect much. He was below average defensively, and will be worse. And he won't be much of an offensive threat.

 

The bottom line is, don't count on Nomar to be the difference between the sub .500 start and a playoff push in the second half. He'll be a small role player at best if he even does come back

 

You simply can't make those statements with that level of certainty, just because Mike Piazza had a similar injury.

 

No one knows what we'll get from Nomar. You don't think he'll produce much. Some people think he could be a huge boost. I think he can produce close to the same level he did with the Cubs last year.

 

But to say that "he'll be a small role player at best" and "he won't be much of an offensive threat" like you're working with Nomar on his rehab is simply off base.

 

My wife is a D.P.T. and whenever we're discussing injuries like this, the first thing that always comes out is "Every person is different" and that you can't make a diagnosis from 1,000 miles away when you've never seen the athlete. Nomar's body could be able to handle the injury better than Piazza did. They have different swings, play different positions, different body-types and likely were/are in different shape.

 

The fact is that right now, no one knows what Nomar we'll be getting. Not even you. The physicians and trainers working with him right now are the only ones who have an idea as to how ready he'll be and where his body will be in 2.5 weeks.

 

If somebody can say that Nomar can comeback because Piazza came back, then I can say Nomar will struggle because Piazza struggled. In fact, I can say whatever the heck I want to say with regards to my opinion about the likelihood of Nomar coming back and helping the Cubs win. I think it's incredibly asinine to count on him. It was borderline foolish to think he'd be able to be a great stable force coming into the season, and his injury just makes it all the more nonsensical to put the fate of the season on his groin.

 

The fact is he wasn't very good defensively before the most recent injury. The chances of him being even a step worse have to be pretty good. In addition, he's a shell of his former self offensively. Sure, he should be able to outproduce Neifi with his eyes closed. However, he epitomizes the awful swing at everything approach that has plagued this team for years. And given all his recent injury troubles plus his age, it could very well be that he can no longer get by with that approach on god given ability alone. And even if he returns, the OF will still be a terrible mess. He's not going to be able to carry this team and make us forget all the problems. Improvements have to be made elsewhere before we can even think of Nomar making a difference.

[hawkeyecub]

Like I said, everyone has different opinions on what Nomar will be able to produce. You don't think he'll be able to produce much and I think he can be more than a role player. There's nothing wrong with that. You're right that no one should expect him to turn this team around, although he can provide a boost.

 

I just took issue with the way you phrased your opinions. Instead of saying he "might not be able to contribute much" or "I don't think he can be more than a role player" your opinions came off as a matter of certainty.

 

Perhaps it's just a matter of semantics. I just don't like when people try to diagnose an injury or a player's return from an injury, simply by comparing him to another. This is a rare baseball injury where we can't look at 10 different cases and see what those players did. You're just looking at Piazza's but ignoring the multiple variables that exist which could seperate Nomar from Piazza's rehab.

I'm sure even his rehab team isn't sure of what to expect from him until they see him back on his rehab assignment.

[SAMMYWHO]

Like I said, everyone has different opinions on what Nomar will be able to produce. You don't think he'll be able to produce much and I think he can be more than a role player. There's nothing wrong with that. You're right that no one should expect him to turn this team around, although he can provide a boost.

 

I just took issue with the way you phrased your opinions. Instead of saying he "might not be able to contribute much" or "I don't think he can be more than a role player" your opinions came off as a matter of certainty.

 

Perhaps it's just a matter of semantics. I just don't like when people try to diagnose an injury or a player's return from an injury, simply by comparing him to another. This is a rare baseball injury where we can't look at 10 different cases and see what those players did. You're just looking at Piazza's but ignoring the multiple variables that exist which could seperate Nomar from Piazza's rehab.

I'm sure even his rehab team isn't sure of what to expect from him until they see him back on his rehab assignment.

 

Out of all our players to be hurt I'm glad it was Nomar. Don't think I'm crazy because of his offensive capabilities, but when was the last time you read an article about Aramis's training regimen. I think comparisons are a joke but I would hope Nomar based on the shape he is in would heal faster than Aramis or Piazza or whoever. From what I've read the guy works out like 100 hours a day. We all should hope he comes back with a bang.

[neely crenshaw]

My line-up when Nomar comes back? How am I supposed to know who will be on the roster in 2006?

 

or what team nomar will be on!

[SouthSideRyan]

And mroe annoying than the awful jokes about the Cubs training staff that aren't relevant this year are people who continue to harp on Nomar for being injury prone when the 2 years before last he played full seasons, and the only other injury he suffered before last year was a freak one on a hit by pitch IIRC. But no, he's injury prone and the Cubs were stupid to give him 8M. Thanks doc.

[CubsWin]

However, even if he did come back, I still wouldn't expect much. He was below average defensively, and will be worse. And he won't be much of an offensive threat.

 

The bottom line is, don't count on Nomar to be the difference between the sub .500 start and a playoff push in the second half. He'll be a small role player at best if he even does come back

 

You simply can't make those statements with that level of certainty, just because Mike Piazza had a similar injury.

 

No one knows what we'll get from Nomar. You don't think he'll produce much. Some people think he could be a huge boost. I think he can produce close to the same level he did with the Cubs last year.

 

But to say that "he'll be a small role player at best" and "he won't be much of an offensive threat" like you're working with Nomar on his rehab is simply off base.

 

My wife is a D.P.T. and whenever we're discussing injuries like this, the first thing that always comes out is "Every person is different" and that you can't make a diagnosis from 1,000 miles away when you've never seen the athlete. Nomar's body could be able to handle the injury better than Piazza did. They have different swings, play different positions, different body-types and likely were/are in different shape.

 

The fact is that right now, no one knows what Nomar we'll be getting. Not even you. The physicians and trainers working with him right now are the only ones who have an idea as to how ready he'll be and where his body will be in 2.5 weeks.

Extremely well put, hawkeye. I find it odd when posters feel it is necessary to make statements of certainty when their opinion is what they have to offer. Goony's opinion is welcome and founded in some logic, but to make statements of certainty only weakened his argument in my eyes.

 

I agree, no one knows what kind of performance the Cubs are going to get out of Nomar if/when he returns. Goony might be right, or other more optimistic posters might be right. If someone had posted right after the Cubs had lost their 8th in a row that they would win the next 4 straight, how many of us would have agreed? You never can tell what is going to happen in this game.

[fearthecubs]

Hairston-Nomar-Lee-Ramirez-Burnitz-Walker-Barrett-Murton

[CubsWin]

Hairston-Nomar-Lee-Ramirez-Burnitz-Walker-Barrett-Murton

I like keeping the lefty Walker in the 2 hole to break up the right-handers Hairston, Lee and Ramirez. Plus, we don't really know how well Nomar will be seeing pitches when he first comes back. It may take him some time before his OBP is as good or better than Walker's. I would start Nomar out in the 6 hole and see how he performs. I would also try to space Burnitz and Walker out in the line-up. Having the only 2 lefties in the line-up batting side by side makes it all that much easier for the opposing manager to shut them down for an inning if he has a dominant loogy.

 

My line-up would look like:

 

Hairston

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Burnitz

Garciaparra

Barrett

Murton

 

Of course, Nomar isn't supposed to be back before the trade deadline has come and gone, so the line-up could look like:

 

Hairston

Walker

Lee

Dunn

Ramirez

Burnitz

Garciaparra

Barrett

 

Good to great OBP in the top 5 spots with the potential for the 6 and 7 hitters to have OBPs around .350 or higher. Plenty of power throughout the line-up. Good righty/lefty balance through the heart of the line-up. Not too shabby...

[fearthecubs]

I think the righty-lefty thing is permanently overrated. If Nomar comes back, we have to assume he is 100% ready to go. Can't baby him.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Walker is the ideal number two hitter; I would not move him out of that spot. Nomar, even when right, likes to swing at too many first pitches. I prefer someone with more patience in my number two hitter.