Corey only has himself to blame for free swinging...

[Jon]

Certainly the burden of blame for Corey's lack of flexibility since joining the Cubs has to go to Corey himself.

 

However, it's pretty clear we lack quality teachers in our minor leagues. Look how many great position players other ballclubs produce. Some teams bring up a quality position player EVERY SINGLE YEAR. We don't do *ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE* to these teams.

 

Corey is to blame for being unwilling to change lately, but Holy Strikeout Batman---we are terrible developing position players.

Please show me how Corey has been unwilling to change lately. There's quite a difference between unwilling to and trying to but not having success.

[Soul]

Certainly the burden of blame for Corey's lack of flexibility since joining the Cubs has to go to Corey himself.

 

However, it's pretty clear we lack quality teachers in our minor leagues. Look how many great position players other ballclubs produce. Some teams bring up a quality position player EVERY SINGLE YEAR. We don't do *ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE* to these teams.

 

Corey is to blame for being unwilling to change lately, but Holy Strikeout Batman---we are terrible developing position players.

Please show me how Corey has been unwilling to change lately. There's quite a difference between unwilling to and trying to but not having success.

 

Are you saying Corey is simply not talented enough then?

 

BTW, It's not that hard to shorten your swing. Corey's swing remains one of the longest, loopiest swings in the big leagues---just as it was when he entered the league.

[AAApittsburgh]

Certainly the burden of blame for Corey's lack of flexibility since joining the Cubs has to go to Corey himself.

 

However, it's pretty clear we lack quality teachers in our minor leagues. Look how many great position players other ballclubs produce. Some teams bring up a quality position player EVERY SINGLE YEAR. We don't do *ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE* to these teams.

 

Corey is to blame for being unwilling to change lately, but Holy Strikeout Batman---we are terrible developing position players.

Please show me how Corey has been unwilling to change lately. There's quite a difference between unwilling to and trying to but not having success.

 

Are you saying Corey is simply not talented enough then?

 

BTW, It's not that hard to shorten your swing. Corey's swing remains one of the longest, loopiest swings in the big leagues---just as it was when he entered the league.

I noticed a mechanical difference in his swing this season actually. He used to take one of his hands off the bat after he swung. Now he keeps both hands on the bat all the way through the swing. It didn't seem to help obviously.

[Jon]

Certainly the burden of blame for Corey's lack of flexibility since joining the Cubs has to go to Corey himself.

 

However, it's pretty clear we lack quality teachers in our minor leagues. Look how many great position players other ballclubs produce. Some teams bring up a quality position player EVERY SINGLE YEAR. We don't do *ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE* to these teams.

 

Corey is to blame for being unwilling to change lately, but Holy Strikeout Batman---we are terrible developing position players.

Please show me how Corey has been unwilling to change lately. There's quite a difference between unwilling to and trying to but not having success.

 

Are you saying Corey is simply not talented enough then?

 

BTW, It's not that hard to shorten your swing. Corey's swing remains one of the longest, loopiest swings in the big leagues---just as it was when he entered the league.

To be the leadoff hitter that they tried to make him? That's not where his talent lies.

 

And his swing has changed. In trying to shorten it up, they've seemingly made it less level. If his bat could stay in the zone as much as it did a couple of years ago, he'd be having much more success.

[DivineBovine]

How is this for a thought: Maybe Corey Patterson is simply NOT talented??!! Why is it that everyone is so convinced its in his head? Maybe he just doesn't have the talent.

 

He's had one good year, in single A since he's turned pro. That one good half year in the majors turned out to be a fluke, and he was on his way down when he got injured that year.

 

Although he clearly has athletic ability, so what? I can name plenty of guys in the NFL that can run faster and are way stronger. I wouldn't want them playing for the Cubs though.

 

I'm not sure what his deal is, but the fact is he swings and misses a lot. And it's not always because he has one of the worst eyes in baseball (see how often he flails away at pitches 2 feet out of the zone and takes pitches that are right on the corner), but even when he gets a pitch, he just swings though it.

 

Baseball is not just about athleticism. Hand eye coordination is just way more important. Corey just doesn't seem to have it.

 

I've given up. I have given up hope that he will ever learn the strike zone- name one player with a K/BB ratio like Corey in baseball history who has ever turned it around?

 

Corey is done. Anyone miss Alou now?

[KW34]

I think the portion of Clines' statements that is the most telling is saying Corey could do it in bp but couldn't translate it into games.

 

Allow me to offer an analogy. Suppose you are a decent golfer. Someone on the range points out some flaw in your swing. You try it out - it's uncomfortable, but after about 15 to 20 swings it starts to work. You're hitting longer, straighter, with more consistency. Now you get on the course for real and your foursome wants to make the game "interesting", enough so that it would sting a bit if you lost. Now you start out with your new approach and you duck hook your first drive OB. The next few shots and holes continue in this manner. How many of you would continue to play with this new swing? I think most would abandon it and go back to the method that worked in the past, even though long term it is not in your best interests. Now, when you try to go back to your original swing you just can't find it - you're chunking, skulling and slicing. You keep trying to make minor adjustments on the fly but nothing works. Your round is shot and there is seemingly nothing you can do - your swing is in shambles.

 

This is my theory on what may be going on with Corey.

[Bench Coach]

Great analogy.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Anyone miss Alou now?

Not at all.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

However, it's pretty clear we lack quality teachers in our minor leagues. Look how many great position players other ballclubs produce. Some teams bring up a quality position player EVERY SINGLE YEAR. We don't do *ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE* to these teams.

First of all, I think you are looking at the teams that are showcased all of the time, such as the Braves and Twins. There aren't that many teams that bring up a quality position player every year or even every couple of years. That is just an incredibly hard thing to do. I can easily name 5 teams that haven't brought up an every day player in the last 3 years. Secondly, I think that we do have some good coaches in our system but there needs to be more of them and I am not so sure about how good of hitting coaches Clines and Sarge are.

 

Also, I might have been the only one witnessing this but Corey was actually working the count really well his last week and a half or so. Granted, he wasn't getting any hits but he was seeing a ton of pitches.

[Soul]

Certainly the burden of blame for Corey's lack of flexibility since joining the Cubs has to go to Corey himself.

 

However, it's pretty clear we lack quality teachers in our minor leagues. Look how many great position players other ballclubs produce. Some teams bring up a quality position player EVERY SINGLE YEAR. We don't do *ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE* to these teams.

 

Corey is to blame for being unwilling to change lately, but Holy Strikeout Batman---we are terrible developing position players.

Please show me how Corey has been unwilling to change lately. There's quite a difference between unwilling to and trying to but not having success.

 

Are you saying Corey is simply not talented enough then?

 

BTW, It's not that hard to shorten your swing. Corey's swing remains one of the longest, loopiest swings in the big leagues---just as it was when he entered the league.

To be the leadoff hitter that they tried to make him? That's not where his talent lies.

 

And his swing has changed. In trying to shorten it up, they've seemingly made it less level. If his bat could stay in the zone as much as it did a couple of years ago, he'd be having much more success.

 

LOL. If that's the result of the Cubs trying to shorten Corey's swing, then they're either the worst teachers on the planet, or Corey is the worst student. I guess we'll never know now.

 

But in the Cubs' defense, they didn't just try to make CPatt a leadoff hitter. They've tried him in just about every offensive role imaginable. But there is NO spot in the order that will work for a hitter who K's 200 times a year and can't get his bat through the zone.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

But in the Cubs' defense, they didn't just try to make CPatt a leadoff hitter. They've tried him in just about every offensive role imaginable.

Perhaps that's part of the problem..

[Satch80]

I agree with Bovine. Corey is very athletic but I'm not sure his athleticism translates well to baseball. If you watch him defensively, he rarely gets great jumps off the bat because his instincts aren't there. His speed usually allows for him to correct for taking a couple of steps in the wrong direction.

At bat, he really doesn't seem to have any eye or sense of what the pitcher is trying to do to him. He consistently swings at the same eye level fastballs or balls in the dirt as if he can't really follow them out of the pitcher's hand. It's really mind bogling to watch his futility, doing the same things over and over. I have a feeling his hand eye coordination is not great. He didn't see a lot of 95mph fastballs and sharp breaking sliders in A ball. Now that he does, he seems inbetween all the time.

 

If a player has real talent, it will come to frutition at some point even if he is brought along the fast track. I;m afraid that Corey may have been 80% wishful thinking and 20% reality on the part of the Cubs.. I hope I'm wrong and that he eventually pays dividends but this is his third year in the majors and the more the opposition learns about him the worse he gets. He may not be capable of making adjustments. He may only be comfortable doing what he knows. And now that it's not good enough, he's failing..

[UK1679666180]

I would be curious in knowing how many of the people who criticize the organization for rushing Corey are the same people wanting to see Pie brought up. I personally, don't want to see him in Chicago until September of 2006, with the intent on him starting in 2007.

 

I too think Corey's struggles are his fault and the organization's. Then, again, if Gary Matthews, Jr. had been able to hit, the Cubs wouldn't have felt a need to rush Corey. Yes, I'm stretching it with that one.

 

I'll be upset with the Cub if and when they call up Pie, they'll be rushing him. I don't need a hindsight argument to tell me that he is likely not ready. I don't think his knowledge of the strike zone is advanced enough to take advantage of his natural talents.

 

I assume they would learn from their mistakes, rushing Patterson was a mistake, I would try and give Pie a chance to cont. on his discipline at the plate in the minors. Patterson's poor play should dictate Pie's ascent to the majors, Pie's progression should determine that. If Pie getting called up is based upon Patterson not producing, it is a pretty good example of putting short-term goals (for a team under .500) ahead of the big picture.

 

If CP was able to produce like he did in '03 or even slightly better than '04, we would not see Pie till he was probably ready.

[UK1679666180]

For those wondering...

 

Pie's 16 BBs projects to 30 BBs in 444 ABs. Patterson had 45BBs in 444 ABs at AA. Pie's 53Ks projects to 98Ks in 444 ABs, Patterson had 115Ks.

 

Let Pie improve on this aspect of the game in the minors.

[Neuby]

Certainly the burden of blame for Corey's lack of flexibility since joining the Cubs has to go to Corey himself.

 

However, it's pretty clear we lack quality teachers in our minor leagues. Look how many great position players other ballclubs produce. Some teams bring up a quality position player EVERY SINGLE YEAR. We don't do *ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE* to these teams.

 

Corey is to blame for being unwilling to change lately, but Holy Strikeout Batman---we are terrible developing position players.

Please show me how Corey has been unwilling to change lately. There's quite a difference between unwilling to and trying to but not having success.

 

Are you saying Corey is simply not talented enough then?

 

BTW, It's not that hard to shorten your swing. Corey's swing remains one of the longest, loopiest swings in the big leagues---just as it was when he entered the league.

To be the leadoff hitter that they tried to make him? That's not where his talent lies.

 

And his swing has changed. In trying to shorten it up, they've seemingly made it less level. If his bat could stay in the zone as much as it did a couple of years ago, he'd be having much more success.

 

It doesn't matter where u bat in the lineup a pitch a face high fastball is a face high fastball. Always swinging at the first pitch , sliders in the dirt look the same whether your leading off or batting third.

 

On a side note Cruz has a 8.49 era and Choi is hitting in the .230's all the talk when they where with the Cubs was Dusty is terrible doesn't know this or that. They where can't miss , too much talent to trade. Then when they didn't pan we traded them when there vaule was low. It's funny how each of those two where dealt again. All that talent and still not performing must be Dusty sprinkling magic dust on them to make them struggle. When Patterson is dealt will the same thing happen?

[Soul]

We all remember the consecutive years being ranked #1 minor league system.

 

Basically, from all that we netted Prior,Zambrano, Lee, and ARam. Prior & Z directly from the minors---Lee & ARam from trades for our prospects.

 

Those are 4 very good players. I'm not sure it's enough though, considering all the potential we had sitting in the minors in the early 2000's. And notice none of the position player talent we have came from our system. None.

 

That's not very comforting---and honestly there's really nothing in the system to be overly excited about. We drained the minors to put together a contender & it basically didn't work.

 

I guess you have to take your shot. Looks to me like Hendry just fell short of his goal. He quite simply failed.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

We all remember the consecutive years being ranked #1 minor league system.

 

Basically, from all that we netted Prior,Zambrano, Lee, and ARam. Prior & Z directly from the minors---Lee & ARam from trades for our prospects.

 

Those are 4 very good players. I'm not sure it's enough though, considering all the potential we had sitting in the minors in the early 2000's. And notice none of the position player talent we have came from our system. None.

 

That's not very comforting---and honestly there's really nothing in the system to be overly excited about. We drained the minors to put together a contender & it basically didn't work.

 

I guess you have to take your shot. Looks to me like Hendry just fell short of his goal. He quite simply failed.

 

I don't think a top-10 farm system is drained.