7/4/05 lineup

[scs_paradise]

If I'm not mistaken tonights lineup is the lineup many have been asking for for several weeks now. Patterson on the bench, hairston and walker at the top and perez at 7. I know its a small sample size but:

 

Does this change anyones opinion of what the lineup should be?

 

Is this the type of offense you expected?

 

Does Dusty use this game as an example of why he knows more than everyone else (in that he put out the lineup all the experts wanted and it didn't produce?)

[CubsWin]

If I'm not mistaken tonights lineup is the lineup many have been asking for for several weeks now. Patterson on the bench, hairston and walker at the top and perez at 7. I know its a small sample size but:

 

Does this change anyones opinion of what the lineup should be?

 

Is this the type of offense you expected?

 

Does Dusty use this game as an example of why he knows more than everyone else (in that he put out the lineup all the experts wanted and it didn't produce?)

Much too small of a sample size to draw any conclusions. About the only conclusion that can be drawn is that just as the Cubs bats got hot in the beginning of June, they have gotten cold at the beginning of July.

 

I still would like to see this line-up with the exception of swapping out Perez for Cedeno and getting Dubois in there as much as possible even though Holla has been doing pretty well as of late.

 

I believe if Dusty sticks with this line-up for a week or so, we will see the Cubs break out of this slump and start winning some games again.

[GhostRunner]

I'm just glad that the changes have finally been made.

 

If the new line-up pays off, then the Dusty bashers are justified. If the team continues to struggle, then there's really little else that can be done to the line-up at this point, and the Dusty haters should can it (many still won't, obviously).

 

All and all, this is probably the best 1 through 8 that the Cubs can send out there given the current roster. Until a trade happens, this line-up will need to get the job done.

 

I still would like to see this line-up with the exception of swapping out Perez for Cedeno and getting Dubois in there as much as possible even though Holla has been doing pretty well as of late.

I honestly don't understand how the Dubois supporters can continue to throw this option out there. Dubois was given ample opportunity, didn't produce, and Hollandsworth has been hitting lately. I just can't understand the logic in taking a step backwards, other than just for blind player preference.

[dalgreen]

If I'm not mistaken tonights lineup is the lineup many have been asking for for several weeks now. Patterson on the bench, hairston and walker at the top and perez at 7. I know its a small sample size but:

 

Does this change anyones opinion of what the lineup should be?

 

Is this the type of offense you expected?

 

Does Dusty use this game as an example of why he knows more than everyone else (in that he put out the lineup all the experts wanted and it didn't produce?)

Much too small of a sample size to draw any conclusions. About the only conclusion that can be drawn is that just as the Cubs bats got hot in the beginning of June, they have gotten cold at the beginning of July.

 

I still would like to see this line-up with the exception of swapping out Perez for Cedeno and getting Dubois in there as much as possible even though Holla has been doing pretty well as of late.

 

I believe if Dusty sticks with this line-up for a week or so, we will see the Cubs break out of this slump and start winning some games again.

 

Hollandsworth is getting on base and hitting. This offense is in a slump. Why would you want to take out Holla and see Dubois in there as much as possible? I'm asking because if Dubois were hitting as well as Holla has been, I'd wonder why anyone would want to sit Dubois to play Holla.

 

By the way, while a lot of people have been critical of Perez and Patterson (and rightfully so) our $3 million dollar catcher once again seems to fly underneath people's radar. I'm trying to figure out one thing he excels at for the money we're spending on him.

[Coach C]

The line-up was really good. There is one slight problem however. Why is Neifi batting 7th, while Barrett is batting 8th is beyond me. Either fix the problem in two ways.

 

A) Have Neifi bat 8th and Barrett bat 7th.

 

or

 

B) Have Cedeno bat 8th and Barrett bat 7th.

[Laura]

I've been hoping the Hairston-Walker combo at the top of the order would pay dividends.

 

In two games so far, Hairston has delivered in a big way, Walker has not.

 

I'd give the combo a few more days, though, just like the previous combo got before making a final decision.

 

And, yeah, Holla has been hitting. Barrett's BA has been dropping like stone, and his plus value is his ability to hit.

[dalgreen]

I've been hoping the Hairston-Walker combo at the top of the order would pay dividends.

 

In two games so far, Hairston has delivered in a big way, Walker has not.

 

I'd give the combo a few more days, though, just like the previous combo got before making a final decision.

 

And, yeah, Holla has been hitting. Barrett's BA has been dropping like stone, and his plus value is his ability to hit.

 

I think what you see out of Barrett is what you're going to get. Outside of last year, his career numbers don't suggest that he's a good hitter. Yeah, he's a better option at the plate than Neifi right now, but is that really an endorsement?

[Laura]

It's not, but I tend to think he can be better than a .257 hitter, which is where he's at right now.

[rocket]

I've been hoping the Hairston-Walker combo at the top of the order would pay dividends.

 

In two games so far, Hairston has delivered in a big way, Walker has not.

 

I'd give the combo a few more days, though, just like the previous combo got before making a final decision.

 

And, yeah, Holla has been hitting. Barrett's BA has been dropping like stone, and his plus value is his ability to hit.

 

And not to take Lee's name in vain, but he's been pretty much worthless the past 2 games.

 

Hairston can get on base all he wants, but if Walker and Lee aren't doing anything with him on base, then who cares?

[dalgreen]

It's not, but I tend to think he can be better than a .257 hitter, which is where he's at right now.

 

I could live with him hitting .257 if he'd work the count better. He still doesn't draw many walks. But I'm not singling him out, well maybe today I am, but you know me, I hold everyone accountable, not just the usual suspects. I was just curious when others complain about production vs. contract his name rarely gets mentioned.

[Laura]

I've been hoping the Hairston-Walker combo at the top of the order would pay dividends.

 

In two games so far, Hairston has delivered in a big way, Walker has not.

 

I'd give the combo a few more days, though, just like the previous combo got before making a final decision.

 

And, yeah, Holla has been hitting. Barrett's BA has been dropping like stone, and his plus value is his ability to hit.

 

And not to take Lee's name in vain, but he's been pretty much worthless the past 2 games.

 

Hairston can get on base all he wants, but if Walker and Lee aren't doing anything with him on base, then who cares?

 

One might think, that -- in the long run -- have players that get on base ahead of the hitherto-best-hitting-player-in-baseball-this-season might pay some dividends.

 

 

But who knows for sure? Maybe low-OBP-at-the-top-of-the-lineup-as-well-as-throughout-the-lineup is really the cutting edge way to win these days.

[AAApittsburgh]

I honestly don't understand how the Dubois supporters can continue to throw this option out there. Dubois was given ample opportunity, didn't produce, and Hollandsworth has been hitting lately. I just can't understand the logic in taking a step backwards, other than just for blind player preference.

161 big league ABs is ample opportunity to prove himself? He still needs time to adjust. Perhaps he'll end the season with something like .233/.318/.414/.732. Those were Lee's stats in his first full season, and the Marlins didn't give up on him. Plus, Hollandsworth is more valuable coming off the bench. Dubois and Cedeno should both be starting.

[GhostRunner]

161 big league ABs is ample opportunity to prove himself? He still needs time to adjust. Perhaps he'll end the season with something like .233/.318/.414/.732. Those were Lee's stats in his first full season, and the Marlins didn't give up on him. Plus, Hollandsworth is more valuable coming off the bench. Dubois and Cedeno should both be starting.

Yeah, he needs time to adjust. Just like Patterson needs to adjust, and Perez needs to adjust, and so on. Fact is, Dubois wasn't hitting, and Hollandsworth is. For a team that's scratching & clawing trying to stay in the race, playing 52-card pickup while waiting for a rook to make adjustments to big-league pitching just isn't going to cut it.

 

If (when?) the Cubs fall 8 or 9 back in the WC, then fine, play Dubois 'til he finds his stroke. Until then, you've got to go with the player who is producing.

 

And don't make me bring up the guy's defensive performance thus far. . .

[scs_paradise]

161 big league ABs is ample opportunity to prove himself? He still needs time to adjust. Perhaps he'll end the season with something like .233/.318/.414/.732. Those were Lee's stats in his first full season, and the Marlins didn't give up on him. Plus, Hollandsworth is more valuable coming off the bench. Dubois and Cedeno should both be starting.

Yeah, he needs time to adjust. Just like Patterson needs to adjust, and Perez needs to adjust, and so on. Fact is, Dubois wasn't hitting, and Hollandsworth is. For a team that's scratching & clawing trying to stay in the race, playing 52-card pickup while waiting for a rook to make adjustments to big-league pitching just isn't going to cut it.

 

If (when?) the Cubs fall 8 or 9 back in the WC, then fine, play Dubois 'til he finds his stroke. Until then, you've got to go with the player who is producing.

 

And don't make me bring up the guy's defensive performance thus far. . .

 

I agree with staying with holla as long as we are still in any kind of playoff race, however everyone has to agree that you start playing dubois everyday if you drop out of the WC race. So I guess the question then is at what point to you make that decision? Is 8 games out of the WC the unlucky number or do are we further out before we start really setting up for next year?

 

(I know this sounds like I'm conceding the season, I'm not but I really hate sacrificing a season where we are so obviously .500 at the sake of following seasons....)

[nilodnayr]

It's not, but I tend to think he can be better than a .257 hitter, which is where he's at right now.

 

I could live with him hitting .257 if he'd work the count better. He still doesn't draw many walks. But I'm not singling him out, well maybe today I am, but you know me, I hold everyone accountable, not just the usual suspects. I was just curious when others complain about production vs. contract his name rarely gets mentioned.

 

Hes not supposed to walk!!!! What good does a walk do (most of the time) when the pitcher is hitting behind you. Look at when he was hitting second last year. He changed his approach at the plate and got more walks. He has been a pretty decent average guy which is what you want in the 8 hole, not OBP.

[BigbadB]

It's not, but I tend to think he can be better than a .257 hitter, which is where he's at right now.

 

I could live with him hitting .257 if he'd work the count better. He still doesn't draw many walks. But I'm not singling him out, well maybe today I am, but you know me, I hold everyone accountable, not just the usual suspects. I was just curious when others complain about production vs. contract his name rarely gets mentioned.

 

Hes not supposed to walk!!!! What good does a walk do (most of the time) when the pitcher is hitting behind you. Look at when he was hitting second last year. He changed his approach at the plate and got more walks. He has been a pretty decent average guy which is what you want in the 8 hole, not OBP.

 

Agreed. I want the bottom of the order guys swinging away and trying to make something happen. Not swinging at bad pitches mind you, but put the ball in play.

[dalgreen]

It's not, but I tend to think he can be better than a .257 hitter, which is where he's at right now.

 

I could live with him hitting .257 if he'd work the count better. He still doesn't draw many walks. But I'm not singling him out, well maybe today I am, but you know me, I hold everyone accountable, not just the usual suspects. I was just curious when others complain about production vs. contract his name rarely gets mentioned.

 

Hes not supposed to walk!!!! What good does a walk do (most of the time) when the pitcher is hitting behind you. Look at when he was hitting second last year. He changed his approach at the plate and got more walks. He has been a pretty decent average guy which is what you want in the 8 hole, not OBP.

 

He's not? You'd prefer for him to swing at bad pitches? I didn't mean to imply that he should go to the plate looking for a walk, no hitter should do that. My point is he swings at too many pitcher's pitches, and he didn't do too well in the #2 hole last year. Nor has he had good plate discipline when hitting 6th or 7th. I'm still somewhat confused how some guys get ripped for their contracts when they're not producing, but Barrett's $3 million seems to be treated like $300, 000.

[dime]

...did someone compare Dubois' stats this year to derrek lee's rookie year?

 

Isn't Lee only like a year older than Dubois RIGHT NOW?

[goonys evil twin]

...did someone compare Dubois' stats this year to derrek lee's rookie year?

 

Isn't Lee only like a year older than Dubois RIGHT NOW?

 

1 year, or 3.5, whichever you prefer.