Adam Dunn

[Magnetic Curses]

My point is, he's a terrible hitter. He's a good home run slugger, but he's such a bad hitter it may render him a lousy ballplayer. He cannot revert to his sub .250 BA this year and be considered a 'good' ballplayer.

 

a "bad hitter"? that's a strong statement to make about a man with 80 XBH's last year.

 

zz, you don't like him because he doesn't hit .300 with a .320 OBP, just admit it. you don't like him because he gets on base a lot and is one of the prototypical "moneyball" players.

 

sure, the importance of OBP is a new idea and has received a lot of criticism from the catholic church, but that's no reason to take a stance against it. i hear that the first duty of the new pope is going to be to place billy beane under house arrest until he admits that wasting outs and slapping at balls is productive and progressive, but that won't make it so.

 

you're a progressive thinker, zz, join the 21st century baseball fan, please.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Wouldn't be surprised if he tanked it this year and hit .210. Not sold on Dunn yet.... I'd rather have (shudder) Carlos Lee in LF too.

 

dude, someone needs to slap you silly.

 

Would you guys be so bananas about him if he hit .210/.375, 200Ks and only had 30 homers this year. Dunn is so all-or-nothing I wouldn't be surprised if he does terrible and doesn't even reach the Mendoza line. He could hit .270 and 50 dingers - I dunno. He's an enigma at this point. An enigma wrapped in shroud caught in a riddle stuck in fog surrounded by uncertainty.

 

And he is worse than Carlos Lee in LF. And that is bad....

 

if "all-or-nothing" means that he gets on base 40% of the time, then i'm all about the "all-or-nothing".

 

you just don't get it: getting on base is better than not getting on base.

 

i don't see what you find so difficult to understand about it.

 

That point is simple enough for even me to understand. If you're getting on base 37-40% of the time and adding 35-50 HR's with it, you will be helping your team win a lot more than you are hurting them.

[ZZ Thorn]

OBP is a new stat? It's been around as long as I can recall.

 

I always thought OBP was a crucial stat. I always thought getting walks, not King a lot, scoring runs and RBIs was crucial. I even think winning games has its place.

 

I'm not against moneyball players, I just don't think some of them are as good as others do, like say Dunn thus for or Bellhorn. Dunn has to hit a TON of homers to be a good player - last year was the first year he finished with a SLG above .475 even, so can't you see why I'm not sold yet! If he meets Vance's requirements, but only hits .215, I don't think he's that good a player, much less a good hitter. I think Dunn has to hit at least .250 to live with his Ks and home runs. And .250 in today's game is like .225 or so just 20 years ago....

 

I think an 'out is an out' only in the final analysis, in a vacuum. I'm not going to swear allegiance to the OBP cuz walks are not always as good as hits. Please do not write me an essay why you disagree. And whiffs are very often exactly what you don't want during the actual game and Dunn set the record for them last year. LOL, that's a good hitter? We are talking about baseball right?

 

Today's game was won by a fielder's choice. An out is an out huh? Yeah, that's what I thought. Please don't write that ever again cuz today just showed y'all wrong. There are many instances of stuff like this over the year, and very often a typical moneyball player either whiff or walk -neither of which get the run home. A good 'hitter' comes thru in this situation.

[rocket]

No. Today's game was won by an error. The lack of making an out by a defender is what cost us.

[ZZ Thorn]

No. Today's game was won by an error. The lack of making an out by a defender is what cost us.

 

Fine. Ignore the fielder's choice like it never happened or had any affect on the ballgame.... Better yet, reply and pedantically point out that the game was 'won' by an error. Continue to ignore the main point...life will be easier.

[rocket]

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying Burnitz's error cost us the game. Burnitz makes the catch, Ramon Hernandez's groundout ends the inning without scoring a run. Are you denying this? Not making an easy out cost us the victory.

 

What the hell's your problem anyways? I don't recall anyone ever saying that getting an out at the expense of a run is a bad thing. Sulley's point is simple. The goal of almost every at bat is to not create an out. Sure, in some situations, like a 0-0 tie in the 6th inning, trading an out for a run is a good thing. Show me where someone said this isn't so. You just grasp at anything to argue about for whatever reason. And you also find the need to say that anyone who doesn't think like you are unsuccessful and jealous. It's childish and ridiculous.

 

And for the love of God, you are not hijacking my Adam Dunn thread.

 

No game today for Adam Dunn, so yesterday's projections stand.

[Magnetic Curses]

Today's game was won by a fielder's choice. An out is an out huh?

 

look who's taking things out of context, now. there are 162 games to play this season, and you're sitting here acting like yesterday's game was game 7 of the world series. that's one of the main points of moneyball, you're going to lose some games due to defensive lapses and not making contact at certain times. but if you can't do the important stuff, like get on base, you aren't even going to be in position to compete for the division.

 

Yeah, that's what I thought. Please don't write that ever again cuz today just showed y'all wrong.

 

more taking things out of context.

 

There are many instances of stuff like this over the year, and very often a typical moneyball player either whiff or walk -neither of which get the run home. A good 'hitter' comes thru in this situation.

 

holy crap. players like dunn carry the weight of team production on their back, and then you point to a slap hitter who punches one through a drawn in infield in one game per year as the real hero.

 

your argument is ridiculous.

[ZZ Thorn]

Fine, I'd say that just looking at 162 game stats and projections obscures the day-to-day neccesities of winning games, but this thread is about Adam Dunn and Sauce's love for him, so feel free to ignore my objections, conjectures and observations about Dunn.

 

Last thing I'll say - A) I hope Dunn does bad cuz he's a Red II) He might do very well this year and become a Sexon 3) He probably won't hit his weight, that may make him less valuable, but only to me and probably not Mrs. Dunn or Sauce.

 

Go Cubs!

[Magnetic Curses]

Fine, I'd say that just looking at 162 game stats and projections obscures the day-to-day neccesities of winning games

 

you can look at baseball as a sprint, make judgements about players based on seeing them do something 1 time, and praise managers for not being consistent in their decision-making, but it's only going to make you wrong.

 

you're simply reacting against a new philosophy, don't worry, it happens all the time.

 

i still like you most of the time, though.

[ZZ Thorn]

Conversely, you can't solely look at baseball in it's totality - you ignore the things that it takes to make it day to day. Very often a fielder's choice, an out, wins the game - where's the stat for that? There are things that stats can't explain or comprehend.

 

I don't think I'm some knee-jerk reactionary. I appreciate what the new stats are bringing to the table, but I also see some of their limitations. What I see all the time is blind allegiance to numbers over the accumulated first hand knowledge of the lifetime practitioners.

 

I used the analogy of the chemist telling the farmer what to put in his soil a while back: sometimes he's right, sometimes the farmer's time-tested ways are right. The new stats are the arrogant chemist who is sometimes rights but very often seems to forget that the farmer didn't get to where he is by sowing manure instead of seeds.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

None of us have played, watched, or coached baseball before. It's a game we study in books and look up the box scores and stats on the internet.

[treebird]

None of us have played, watched, or coached baseball before. It's a game we study in books and look up the box scores and stats on the internet.

 

i listened to like 10 minutes of a game once but then i got confused so i read baseball prospectus again

[JC]

Capt. Jack Aubrey: "Not everything is in your books, Stephen."

 

Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World

 

I throw that out there simply because it is a fantastic movie and has some relevance to the discussion. Certainly a component of the game includes first hand observation, but, personally, I would give more deference to statistical analysis on most occassions.

[Magnetic Curses]

I used the analogy of the chemist telling the farmer what to put in his soil a while back: sometimes he's right, sometimes the farmer's time-tested ways are right. The new stats are the arrogant chemist who is sometimes rights but very often seems to forget that the farmer didn't get to where he is by sowing manure instead of seeds.

 

modern farming got to where it's at by listening to scientists. talk to farmers today, they know what they're doing, but they know what they're doing because scientific development.

 

the farmer's crop didn't wither because his neighbor's wife gave him the evil eye, it withered because of some weird ph shift in the soil.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Looks like Dunn missed a game last night due to an injury.

 

Adam Dunn was out of the starting lineup yesterday with a sore right hand.

Dunn was spiked while running the bases Sunday. He came into the game in the eighth inning and grounded out. ''It's been bothering me some,'' Dunn said.

[rocket]

Whoever spiked him is a dead man!

[treebird]

Whatever you say, Jackie.

[ChiCubsFan]

Spiked while running the bases, eh? I've goten spiked a few dozen times while playing shortstop but never got spiked while running the bases.

 

I once got spiked and it ripped my sock. I was more pissed about having to finish the game with my pants all the way down to cover the ripped sock, then I was about the pain from getting spiked.

 

They were green socks by the way...

[goonys evil twin]

Looks like Dunn missed a game last night due to an injury.

 

Adam Dunn was out of the starting lineup yesterday with a sore right hand.

Dunn was spiked while running the bases Sunday. He came into the game in the eighth inning and grounded out. ''It's been bothering me some,'' Dunn said.

 

 

When I saw Dunn was out after being spiked I figured Rocket put the date rape drug in his gatorade.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Looks like Dunn missed a game last night due to an injury.

 

Adam Dunn was out of the starting lineup yesterday with a sore right hand.

Dunn was spiked while running the bases Sunday. He came into the game in the eighth inning and grounded out. ''It's been bothering me some,'' Dunn said.

 

 

When I saw Dunn was out after being spiked I figured Rocket put the date rape drug in his gatorade.

 

:lmao:

[rocket]

Pish posh. Dunn is entirely too manly to succumb to any date rape drug.

[Mark_R]

Pish posh. Dunn is entirely too manly to succumb to any date rape drug.

 

Post 5,000 talking about Adam Dunn not able to succumb to a date rape drug!

 

It just seems appropriate. :D

[rocket]

Hahahahaha, that's awesome! I didn't even mean to, but my 5000th post couldn't have been more perfect.

 

EDIT: upon further examination, that wasn't my 5000th post. some stupid mvp baseball crap was the 5000th post.

[Mark_R]

Hahahahaha, that's awesome! I didn't even mean to, but my 5000th post couldn't have been more perfect.

 

I didn't notice, but there was a post you made one minute after the date rape one in which must have been 5,000 :cry: :cry:

[rocket]

Hahahahaha, that's awesome! I didn't even mean to, but my 5000th post couldn't have been more perfect.

 

I didn't notice, but there was a post you made one minute after the date rape one in which must have been 5,000 :cry: :cry:

 

Yeah, I just noticed that too. :x