Cubs offseason chit chat...

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, KCCub said:

I just don’t think it’s as black and white as “oh horsefeathers, we paid Bellinger CF money and now we’re stuck with him at 1b because PCA proved that he’s ready to take over in 2025”. You’re paying for a damn good, versatile player who is going into his age 28 season. If the Cubs believe in his bat and believe they unlocked something with the way he hit last year, I’m on board if they sign him. He won a gold glove in right field in 2019 - maybe the future move is to move him to RF and Suzuki to DH? Regardless, this day and age versatility is highly valued and Bellinger is on the high end of that scale with his overall defense, age, speed, LH bat, etc. 

I have no issue with this. My stance is the Cubs need to pick a lane and go with it. If it is Bellinger then go get him. If it is Hoskins/Chapman get him too Same with trades. If they want Bieber and Naylor, make it happen. They should have done it for Glasnow. 
If they want to add a pitcher in FA I do understand that might develop slower since Yamamoto is still out there. But based on what they have done so far, I doubt they do sign either Imanaga or Montgomery once Yamamoto is signed. I think the pitcher they get will be the guy no one else went after. If we are being honest that has been their MO the last 2 off seasons. Both Stoman and Swanson were signed once the other higher end guys were spoken for. 

 

[gocubs218]

If they sign Hoskins, I think that pretty much closes the book on Chapman. Jed has said on multiple occasions that they are looking for left handed hitting. I would say it’s one or the other. 

[CubbyBlue2008]

If the foundation of the offseason is Bellinger and Hoskins, I can at least live with that. Then trade for pitching.

[Rcal10]

7 minutes ago, CubbyBlue2008 said:

If the foundation of the offseason is Bellinger and Hoskins, I can at least live with that. Then trade for pitching.

If that is their plan, then fine. Make it happen. The problem is there is just no proof that is their plan. The plan is more like take who we can get for a value price then shuffle the deck to come up with a roster. 

[Derwood]

Just now, Rcal10 said:

If that is their plan, then fine. Make it happen. The problem is there is just no proof that is their plan. The plan is more like take who we can get for a value price then shuffle the deck to come up with a roster. 

 

Why would they broadcast "their plan" for you to approve of?

[Rcal10]

54 minutes ago, Derwood said:

 

Why would they broadcast "their plan" for you to approve of?

Come on man. Everything said by them and all reports have suggested they are basically waiting the market out. The last 2 years they waited the market out and took who was left. They have just not proved to be a team who plays in the deep water to get quality free agents whether they show interest or not. I would love for them to prove me wrong. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Rcal10

[Jfoley89]

This is year 3 of Jed being incompetent in the offseason while getting defended aggressively by people who somehow think he's a secret genius

[CubbyBlue2008]

35 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

 One on man. Everything said by them and all reports have suggested they are basically waiting the market out. The last 2 years they waited the market out and took who was left. They have just not proved to be a team who plays in the deep water to get quality free agents whether they show interest or not. I would love for them to prove me wrong. 

Not only that, but they haven’t traded for anybody of significance in a long time either. Which means they’re literally never going to acquire top talent if they won’t pay them or trade for them. It’s sad.

[Jfoley89]

8 minutes ago, CubbyBlue2008 said:

Not only that, but they haven’t traded for anybody of significance in a long time either. Which means they’re literally never going to acquire top talent if they won’t pay them or trade for them. It’s sad.

The frustration for me is that if they're not sold on PCA, then why are the shopping for a replacement and devaluing him? Sell high on him and then find someone else while people are still paying full value. 

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, Jfoley89 said:

The frustration for me is that if they're not sold on PCA, then why are the shopping for a replacement and devaluing him? Sell high on him and then find someone else while people are still paying full value. 

But we don’t know that. We won’t know that until they either sign Bellinger or go with PCA. And, of course, then the narrative will be either we weren’t sold on PCA, wanted to give him more time or we love PCA so didn’t want to block him. All depending on if Bellinger falls in their lap or not.

[Stratos]

Not sure if this has been posted but just read a tidbit on MLB Trade Rumors that the Cubs were reportedly in on Jung Hoo Lee.  Makes a Bellinger signing more likely since they'd likely be in on him too:
 

Quote

 

"According to Patrick Mooney of The Athletic, that search for a left-handed bat took them to a somewhat unusual place, as Mooney indicates that Chicago pursued star KBO outfielder Jung Hoo Lee prior to him landing in San Francisco on a six-year, $113MM deal last week.

It’s something of a peculiar fit, as the Cubs have Ian Happ and Seiya Suzuki locked into the corner outfield spots with top prospect Pete Crow-Armstrong and his 80-grade glove in center field expected to break into the majors as a regular sometime next season. While that hasn’t stopped president of baseball operations Jed Hoyer and his front office from pursuing Soto and a reunion with Bellinger, it’s worth noting that Bellinger has plenty of experience at first base and that Soto is a fringe defender in the outfield who may be best suited for a DH role. Lee, by contrast, has spent his entire professional career in the outfield and is viewed as a plus defender on the grass with a chance to stick in center.

Despite the uncertain fit, Mooney suggests that the 25-year-old’s youth, left-handed bat, and ability to play center were all attractive factors in the eyes of the Cubs. Speculatively speaking, the club may have seen Lee as a piece who could slot into center field on Opening Day to allow Crow-Armstrong more time to develop in the minors."

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/chicago-notes-lee-candelario-pepiot.html

[Jfoley89]

3 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

But we don’t know that. We won’t know that until they either sign Bellinger or go with PCA. And, of course, then the narrative will be either we weren’t sold on PCA, wanted to give him more time or we love PCA so didn’t want to block him. All depending on if Bellinger falls in their lap or not.

Its all over that they were in on Lee. That doesn't scream that they think PCA is an assett

[Stratos]

17 minutes ago, Jfoley89 said:

The frustration for me is that if they're not sold on PCA, then why are the shopping for a replacement and devaluing him? Sell high on him and then find someone else while people are still paying full value. 

They probably feel PCA needs more time in AAA, and I think his MLB stint last year shows that.  Besides the hitting he made some daft decisions on the bases and in the OF.  He's got the physical talents but his baseball IQ isn't there yet IMO.  More experience against advanced players in Iowa would be good for him, even if it's for most of the year.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Stratos

[Stratos]

6 minutes ago, Jfoley89 said:

Its all over that they were in on Lee. That doesn't scream that they think PCA is an assett

There's a big difference between not "believing" in a prospect and believing he just need more time to cook in the minors.  Fans jump to conclusions that the Cubs have "given up" on Mervis, or on Morel when they started him in Iowa last year.

Sometimes it's painfully obvious when a guy needs more time in the minors, and those 2 needed it and so does PCA unless the work he did over the winter impresses and he looks good in ST.  But like Mervis last year, I don't think they're going to rush him, PCA is still very young, he's 21 y/o and never played college ball.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Stratos

[LBiittner]

Rhys Hoskins is 1 month older than Matt Chapman.

Matt Chapman is the better all around player.

Rhys Hoskins is trying to comeback from major surgery.

Rhys Hoskins will probably get minimum 2 year deal. 

Matt Chapman is healthy.

Matt Chapman may settle for 3 or 4.

I'd suspect in this year's market Rhys Hoskins will probably get 24m per year

Matt Chapman will probably get minimum 27 per year.

Matt Chapman is the better option

 

[Stratos]

1 hour ago, CubbyBlue2008 said:

If the foundation of the offseason is Bellinger and Hoskins, I can at least live with that. Then trade for pitching.

I find a better chance they trade for a position player.  There's numerous good SP still on the FA market and the position side is weak this year after Ohtani.  But signing those guys would be pretty good.

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

Rhys Hoskins is 1 month older than Matt Chapman.

Matt Chapman is the better all around player.

Rhys Hoskins is trying to comeback from major surgery.

Rhys Hoskins will probably get minimum 2 year deal. 

Matt Chapman is healthy.

Matt Chapman may settle for 3 or 4.

I'd suspect in this year's market Rhys Hoskins will probably get 24m per year

Matt Chapman will probably get minimum 27 per year.

Matt Chapman is the better option

 

I don’t think Hoskins gets 24M a year and I also don’t think Chapman accepts a 3 or 4 year deal unless his market drops. Hoskins may very well take a similar deal to Bellinger. One year with an option. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

5 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

Rhys Hoskins is 1 month older than Matt Chapman.

Matt Chapman is the better all around player.

Rhys Hoskins is trying to comeback from major surgery.

Rhys Hoskins will probably get minimum 2 year deal. 

Matt Chapman is healthy.

Matt Chapman may settle for 3 or 4.

I'd suspect in this year's market Rhys Hoskins will probably get 24m per year

Matt Chapman will probably get minimum 27 per year.

Matt Chapman is the better option

 

I appreciate the sentiment, since the vitriol towards Chapman is a bit over the top.  But Hoskins is unlikely to get 24M(Bellinger's 17M is probably a decent benchmark), and he's quite likely to take a 1 year deal a la Bellinger.  At a minimum it's fair to expect Hoskins will sign for at least 2 years fewer than Chapman.

[Rcal10]

2 minutes ago, Stratos said:

I find a better chance they trade for a position player.  There's numerous good SP still on the FA market and the position side is weak this year after Ohtani.  But signing those guys would be pretty good.

The next time Jed makes a big trade for anyone, I might start believing he will fill a spot with a trade.

[Rcal10]

1 minute ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

I appreciate the sentiment, since the vitriol towards Chapman is a bit over the top.  But Hoskins is unlikely to get 24M(Bellinger's 17M is probably a decent benchmark), and he's quite likely to take a 1 year deal a la Bellinger.  At a minimum it's fair to expect Hoskins will sign for at least 2 years fewer than Chapman.

And probably 4 years shorter than Chapman. 

[Jfoley89]

19 minutes ago, Stratos said:

They probably feel PCA needs more time in AAA, and I think his MLB stint last year shows that.  Besides the hitting he made some daft decisions on the bases and in the OF.  He's got the physical talents but his baseball IQ isn't there yet IMO.  More experience against advanced players in Iowa would be good for him, even if it's for most of the year.

I'd say signing Bellinger who can transition to 1B would be a sign that he needs more seasoning.  Signing a Lee type for 4 years with Happ and Suzuki says they don't think he's making it to the majors 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

6 minutes ago, Jfoley89 said:

I'd say signing Bellinger who can transition to 1B would be a sign that he needs more seasoning.  Signing a Lee type for 4 years with Happ and Suzuki says they don't think he's making it to the majors 

But they didn't sign Lee, and we don't know if they were deep in negotiations to give him near 100 million like the Giants, or if they scouted and him and liked him as a depth option and bowed out when someone was ready to pay him 8 figure AAVs.  Searching for this type of meaning out of brief mentions of FA interest(especially from national/agent-side sources) is an exercise in futility.

[LBiittner]

13 minutes ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

I appreciate the sentiment, since the vitriol towards Chapman is a bit over the top.  But Hoskins is unlikely to get 24M(Bellinger's 17M is probably a decent benchmark), and he's quite likely to take a 1 year deal a la Bellinger.  At a minimum it's fair to expect Hoskins will sign for at least 2 years fewer than Chapman.

The frustrating thing to signing a 1 year deal with Hoskins is we get to do firstbase all over again in 2025.

As a side note - Does Boras have every decent player as a client?

[Rcal10]

10 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

The frustrating thing to signing a 1 year deal with Hoskins is we get to do firstbase all over again in 2025.

As a side note - Does Boras have every decent player as a client?

No we won’t. Remember our great system. They will just put Cassie at 1st and he will be a star. Or put Shaw at first. Isn’t that exactly why Jed only wants short term deals.
 

As for your side note, sure does seem that way, doesn’t it? 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Rcal10

[ToolDRT]

1 hour ago, Jfoley89 said:

This is year 3 of Jed being incompetent in the offseason while getting defended aggressively by people who somehow think he's a secret genius

It really is beyond annoying. Especially when Jed hasn’t proven a thing other than being Theo’s lackey. I think you give leniency to an executive who has a track record. Not one who has zero achievements thus far. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by ToolDRT