Week 2 - Bears @ Packers, SNF

[CubinNY]

Hurts is the model for Fields. They should be trying to emulate what Philly has done with him.

 

What Philly has done with him is put him behind the best OL in the league. Also drafted and traded for WRs with 1st round picks. Bears are a long way from being able to emulate that.

Very Bears Way

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Hurts is the model for Fields. They should be trying to emulate what Philly has done with him.

 

What Philly has done with him is put him behind the best OL in the league. Also drafted and traded for WRs with 1st round picks. Bears are a long way from being able to emulate that.

 

I wanted us to go that route so bad. I didn't even want to draft a QB until we started rebuilding the situation around the QB. Because I didn't want to end up exactly where we have ended up.

 

The only good thing about losing to the Packers is it gets the rest of the fan base on board with my doom bonering

[WrigleyField 22]

Hurts is the model for Fields. They should be trying to emulate what Philly has done with him.

 

What Philly has done with him is put him behind the best OL in the league. Also drafted and traded for WRs with 1st round picks. Bears are a long way from being able to emulate that.

 

I wanted us to go that route so bad. I didn't even want to draft a QB until we started rebuilding the situation around the QB. Because I didn't want to end up exactly where we have ended up.

 

The only good thing about losing to the Packers is it gets the rest of the fan base on board with my doom bonering

You don't have to build it in advance either though. In fact parallel building is probably best so you line up primes.

 

Lack of a first rounder aside, the Bears really weren't that limited in building around Fields even for 2022. They just went ultra conservative with cap use.

 

I hope Cunningham picked up some roster composition and cap strategy from Roseman and is bringing it to Poles and we see it in 2023 and beyond.

 

Roseman gets the cap mechanics better than probably anyone (though Loomis is up there with him). This was a decent primer article from this past spring that touches the surface a little.

[Have a seat, Neifi]

Courtney Cronin

@CourtneyRCronin

 

Some things to contextualize while watching back Bears-Packers

-Justin Fields has longest average time before pass in the NFL at 3.26 seconds

-His off-target percentage (30%) is the 2nd highest in NFL

-Per Next Gen, avg. separation on Fields' targets is 3.3 yards (4th highest)

 

3:42 PM 9/19/22

[WrigleyField 22]

Courtney Cronin

@CourtneyRCronin

 

Some things to contextualize while watching back Bears-Packers

-Justin Fields has longest average time before pass in the NFL at 3.26 seconds

-His off-target percentage (30%) is the 2nd highest in NFL

-Per Next Gen, avg. separation on Fields' targets is 3.3 yards (4th highest)

 

3:42 PM 9/19/22

The off target % is bad there, but we're also dealing with such a small sample. Like the Mooney bomb was way off and that's 10% of his throws. Must have an impact. Over the course of last year, I believe advanced stats showed him to be a pretty accurate deep passer.

 

The time to throw and target separation make sense based on what we've always known about Fields, even as a prospect. There's still a lot to work with and the O just has to meet him where he is and make marginal improvements in those araas over time.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

 

What Philly has done with him is put him behind the best OL in the league. Also drafted and traded for WRs with 1st round picks. Bears are a long way from being able to emulate that.

 

I wanted us to go that route so bad. I didn't even want to draft a QB until we started rebuilding the situation around the QB. Because I didn't want to end up exactly where we have ended up.

 

The only good thing about losing to the Packers is it gets the rest of the fan base on board with my doom bonering

You don't have to build it in advance either though. In fact parallel building is probably best so you line up primes.

 

Lack of a first rounder aside, the Bears really weren't that limited in building around Fields even for 2022. They just went ultra conservative with cap use.

 

I hope Cunningham picked up some roster composition and cap strategy from Roseman and is bringing it to Poles and we see it in 2023 and beyond.

 

Roseman gets the cap mechanics better than probably anyone (though Loomis is up there with him). This was a decent primer article from this past spring that touches the surface a little.

 

 

I like pre-building because 1) offensive linemen last forever so they're great value if you don't already have them and 2) it usually takes receivers and tight ends a year or two to hit their stride

[WrigleyField 22]

 

I wanted us to go that route so bad. I didn't even want to draft a QB until we started rebuilding the situation around the QB. Because I didn't want to end up exactly where we have ended up.

 

The only good thing about losing to the Packers is it gets the rest of the fan base on board with my doom bonering

You don't have to build it in advance either though. In fact parallel building is probably best so you line up primes.

 

Lack of a first rounder aside, the Bears really weren't that limited in building around Fields even for 2022. They just went ultra conservative with cap use.

 

I hope Cunningham picked up some roster composition and cap strategy from Roseman and is bringing it to Poles and we see it in 2023 and beyond.

 

Roseman gets the cap mechanics better than probably anyone (though Loomis is up there with him). This was a decent primer article from this past spring that touches the surface a little.

 

 

I like pre-building because 1) offensive linemen last forever so they're great value if you don't already have them and 2) it usually takes receivers and tight ends a year or two to hit their stride

I'm not convinced how rooted in reality either of those things are, certainly not to the extent people treat them. There is definitely some variance in the research out there about career arcs and the significance of OL career spans.

 

I have a suspision there is a selection bias for this that creates a greater impression than actualy exists.

 

But anyways, parallel or post hukdikg with a Fields type talent > prebuilding with a Kenny Pickett talent. Obviously you cant predict what will be available in the future, but sometimes when the prospect is sitting there, you just make the move.

[raw]

Courtney Cronin

@CourtneyRCronin

 

Some things to contextualize while watching back Bears-Packers

-Justin Fields has longest average time before pass in the NFL at 3.26 seconds

-His off-target percentage (30%) is the 2nd highest in NFL

-Per Next Gen, avg. separation on Fields' targets is 3.3 yards (4th highest)

 

3:42 PM 9/19/22

The off target % is bad there, but we're also dealing with such a small sample. Like the Mooney bomb was way off and that's 10% of his throws. Must have an impact. Over the course of last year, I believe advanced stats showed him to be a pretty accurate deep passer.

 

The time to throw and target separation make sense based on what we've always known about Fields, even as a prospect. There's still a lot to work with and the O just has to meet him where he is and make marginal improvements in those araas over time.

 

The Mooney throw, I'm sure counts as off-target, but it wasn't a bad throw. Mooney slowed down because he assumed the ball wasn't coming to him. That allowed the DB to get on top of him and make it look like a severe overthrow. If Mooney is going full speed the whole play, it may be a pass breakup, but I do think the throw is on target.

 

But yeah, all these stats are grains of salt at this point.

[WrigleyField 22]

Although to the WR point, parralel building does often mean established but still young WR with your QB.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Which brings us back to "fields is a special talent that couldn't be replicated in other drafts," which I am really not convinced of

[minnesotacubsfan]

pre-building is fine as long as you hit on QB. but, if its a dead QB year in the draft, you end up having to reach. best policy: BPA. The bears did not do that this past year, Gordon was a wiff and should have been a WR

[WrigleyField 22]

Which brings us back to "fields is a special talent that couldn't be replicated in other drafts," which I am really not convinced of

No one thinks so of the 2022 draft, for sure.

 

There's a wide gap between "can't be replicated" and "rare enough that you embrace the opportunity when it's there". Yea there will be some Fields level talents in future years, but when you literally have no good alternative now and have no certainty of your ability to be in a future position to do so, you go for it.

[WrigleyField 22]

pre-building is fine as long as you hit on QB. but, if its a dead QB year in the draft, you end up having to reach. best policy: BPA. The bears did not do that this past year, Gordon was a wiff and should have been a WR

Too early to call Gordon a wiff, as bad as Sunday night was. And what you're describing is opposite of BPA then anyways.

[minnesotacubsfan]

pre-building is fine as long as you hit on QB. but, if its a dead QB year in the draft, you end up having to reach. best policy: BPA. The bears did not do that this past year, Gordon was a wiff and should have been a WR

Too early to call Gordon a wiff, as bad as Sunday night was. And what you're describing is opposite of BPA then anyways.

 

 

*could have been

[raw]

Hurts is the model for Fields. They should be trying to emulate what Philly has done with him.

 

What Philly has done with him is put him behind the best OL in the league. Also drafted and traded for WRs with 1st round picks. Bears are a long way from being able to emulate that.

 

I wanted us to go that route so bad. I didn't even want to draft a QB until we started rebuilding the situation around the QB. Because I didn't want to end up exactly where we have ended up.

 

The only good thing about losing to the Packers is it gets the rest of the fan base on board with my doom bonering

 

1. That's not necessarily the best route either, especially for a team like the Bears who have had seasons where everything is good enough, except the QB. They also kinda are building both at the same time (as WF said). They drafted 2 OL right after Fields in 2021. Both are currently starting. They also have a 3rd recent draft pick starting and a FA signing splitting time and eventually starting at C. Obviously, it's not good enough, especially combined with the lack of offensive weapons. But what's the alternative? Maybe you use a couple of the picks used to take/trade for Fields and got a lineman and a WR.....but the Bears were able to add young OL help, and a young WR with Nick Foles and Trevor Siemien throwing to him probably wouldn't instill a ton of confidence that we just needed a QB.

 

2. The doom bonering is pretty pointless. Nobody thinks this team is going to be any good. We've seen pretty good Bears teams get their asses beat in primetime in Lambeau. This was a game in May when the schedule came out that everyone marked as a loss. It wasn't any uglier than it usually is. I'm actually pretty stunned by the reaction. Well not really, but I think people were hoping that Fields would at least look good in a loss. But the bottom line was, this was going to be a loss. We all knew it well before kickoff.

[UMFan83]

pre-building is fine as long as you hit on QB. but, if its a dead QB year in the draft, you end up having to reach. best policy: BPA. The bears did not do that this past year, Gordon was a wiff and should have been a WR

 

You say the best policy is BPA but in the next sentence say the Bears should have drafted a WR. Which is it? My understanding is Gordon was BPA for them based on their board entering the 2nd round. Also seems silly to call Gordon a wiff after 2 games, even with how bad he's looked.

 

Edit: Wrigley just basically said the same thing. Anyways I'm not sure any of the WRs picked between Gordon and Velus Jones are worth lamenting right now (yes even Pickens). But like with Gordon there's still plenty of time to be wrong on that. So far the 6 have combined for 4 receptions in 2 weeks (though one is on IR and another has leukemia)

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Bpa isn't a thing after the top of the first round.

 

You aren't looking at the 65th pick and thinking "ok this DB is worth 7.32 footballs but the WR is only 7.34, better take the DB"

 

Dont ask me why lower footballs is better it just is

Edited September 20, 2022 by Hairyducked Idiot

[UMFan83]

2. The doom bonering is pretty pointless. Nobody thinks this team is going to be any good. We've seen pretty good Bears teams get their asses beat in primetime in Lambeau. This was a game in May when the schedule came out that everyone marked as a loss. It wasn't any uglier than it usually is. I'm actually pretty stunned by the reaction. Well not really, but I think people were hoping that Fields would at least look good in a loss. But the bottom line was, this was going to be a loss. We all knew it well before kickoff.

 

 

I couldn't believe how many Bears fans online were talking themselves into winning against GB. Even ones I wouldn't consider homers were jacked up about the game and seemingly thought we would at least make it a very competitive game. But like you said, I think a lot of the 'gutted' feeling has as much to do with Fields' performance as the outcome of the game.

[raw]

Isn't Hurts a much better natural runner than Fields (and a weaker passer).

 

I think Fields is still more the mold of a moving pocket guy who punishes you when you leave the run open, but he has the arm talent to develop into a primary passing threat more than a run-led threat. It's the recognition that isn't up to par with the arm talent right now though. That still has to be developed (with lots of reps and coaching).

 

Hurts is bigger. He's a more willing runner, I wouldn't necessarily say more natural. Fields is a step faster, maybe more agile too.

 

Seems like teams are playing for the moving pocket. Part of the reason the Bears are running the ball well is because when they show run action, the weakside DE is basically playing for the reverse pivot, taking a man out of the run play. They know the OL isn't good enough to keep the other 3 out of the pocket consistently if he does drop straight back. I feel like good teams with mobile QBs, don't do the naked bootleg stuff and leave their QB 1-on-1 with a DE. They actually commit an extra blocker to him so the QB has time and a lane to throw, even if on the move. Like I want to see Fields outside the pocket, but actually move the linemen, have a TE come across the formation to pick up that guy keeping contain.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If we lost 48-30 and fields went 20-32 with 240 yards, 3 TDs and 2 INTs, I would be ecstatic.

 

Fields is putting up historically bad performances and the coaching staff doesn't trust him to throw. That is literally the worst case scenario for the season

 

Heck, even being bad on more throws would have at least been more develop-y. Now I gotta worry about running a high school offense all season

[Have a seat, Neifi]

If we lost 48-30 and fields went 20-32 with 240 yards, 3 TDs and 2 INTs, I would be ecstatic.

 

Fields is putting up historically bad performances and the coaching staff doesn't trust him to throw. That is literally the worst case scenario for the season

Heck, even being bad on more throws would have at least been more develop-y. Now I gotta worry about running a high school offense all season

This, to me, is the fundamental problem.

 

I fully expected us to get stomped playing @ Packers in prime time, like we always do. But the fact that we spent almost the entire game down double digits and the coaching staff apparently still didn't trust Fields enough to call plays that theoretically would've involved a forward pass is, at least to me, rather concerning.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Isn't Hurts a much better natural runner than Fields (and a weaker passer).

 

I think Fields is still more the mold of a moving pocket guy who punishes you when you leave the run open, but he has the arm talent to develop into a primary passing threat more than a run-led threat. It's the recognition that isn't up to par with the arm talent right now though. That still has to be developed (with lots of reps and coaching).

 

Hurts is bigger. He's a more willing runner, I wouldn't necessarily say more natural. Fields is a step faster, maybe more agile too.

 

Seems like teams are playing for the moving pocket. Part of the reason the Bears are running the ball well is because when they show run action, the weakside DE is basically playing for the reverse pivot, taking a man out of the run play. They know the OL isn't good enough to keep the other 3 out of the pocket consistently if he does drop straight back. I feel like good teams with mobile QBs, don't do the naked bootleg stuff and leave their QB 1-on-1 with a DE. They actually commit an extra blocker to him so the QB has time and a lane to throw, even if on the move. Like I want to see Fields outside the pocket, but actually move the linemen, have a TE come across the formation to pick up that guy keeping contain.

 

 

Hurts is bigger in what way? hes 6-1 223, Fields is 6-3 227 according to NFL.com

 

https://www.nfl.com/players/jalen-hurts/

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/4362887/justin-fields

Edited September 20, 2022 by minnesotacubsfan

[gflore34]

2. The doom bonering is pretty pointless. Nobody thinks this team is going to be any good. We've seen pretty good Bears teams get their asses beat in primetime in Lambeau. This was a game in May when the schedule came out that everyone marked as a loss. It wasn't any uglier than it usually is. I'm actually pretty stunned by the reaction. Well not really, but I think people were hoping that Fields would at least look good in a loss. But the bottom line was, this was going to be a loss. We all knew it well before kickoff.

 

 

I couldn't believe how many Bears fans online were talking themselves into winning against GB. Even ones I wouldn't consider homers were jacked up about the game and seemingly thought we would at least make it a very competitive game. But like you said, I think a lot of the 'gutted' feeling has as much to do with Fields' performance as the outcome of the game.

 

I believe most rational Bears fan knew it was going to be a loss, I'm just really disappointed about how terrible Fields looked again. Eberflus and Getsy have got to let Fields open it up, run plays that are to his strengths i.e., put him a situation to succeed. I'm not saying Fields has to light up this Sunday but, I don't believe it to be unreasonable to expect a marked improvement over the first two games. He's got to show something positive and hopeful, if he fails to do so, the volume is really going to turned up on Fields being yet another bust for the Bears at QB.

 

If Fields does flame out along with Roquan Smith being ineffective and, quite probably gone, I think that'll mean none of Pace' first round picks materialized as good players for the Bears. Coupled this with his atrocious management of Bears finance, roster and draft picks and I believe it'll make Ryan Pace the worst GM in Bears franchise history.

[minnesotacubsfan]

pre-building is fine as long as you hit on QB. but, if its a dead QB year in the draft, you end up having to reach. best policy: BPA. The bears did not do that this past year, Gordon was a wiff and should have been a WR

 

You say the best policy is BPA but in the next sentence say the Bears should have drafted a WR. Which is it? My understanding is Gordon was BPA for them based on their board entering the 2nd round. Also seems silly to call Gordon a wiff after 2 games, even with how bad he's looked.

 

Edit: Wrigley just basically said the same thing. Anyways I'm not sure any of the WRs picked between Gordon and Velus Jones are worth lamenting right now (yes even Pickens). But like with Gordon there's still plenty of time to be wrong on that. So far the 6 have combined for 4 receptions in 2 weeks (though one is on IR and another has leukemia)

 

should have been in retrospect, could have been during the draft. Gordon wasn't BPA, PFF had our own Brisker as well as Pickens and Tolbert higher then Gordon

[minnesotacubsfan]

2. The doom bonering is pretty pointless. Nobody thinks this team is going to be any good. We've seen pretty good Bears teams get their asses beat in primetime in Lambeau. This was a game in May when the schedule came out that everyone marked as a loss. It wasn't any uglier than it usually is. I'm actually pretty stunned by the reaction. Well not really, but I think people were hoping that Fields would at least look good in a loss. But the bottom line was, this was going to be a loss. We all knew it well before kickoff.

 

I'm guilty of always getting pshyced out for GB, its just the total homer Bears fan in me. But the doom bonering inst something I enjoy either. I realize the bears aren't likely to beat GB any time soon and when they do lose, its typically a huge letdown but an understandable one at that. I don't go full-jump off a cliff like Hairy. Honestly, if we haven't figured it out now, its probably the only way hairy can function in society.

 

that being said, what kills me with the GB games every year are the calls that rob the bears, like Fields TD that wasnt