Bears off-season thread 2022

[minnesotacubsfan]

I hope you're right raw

[WrigleyField 22]

I'm okay with not giving up trade assets, but the FA spending is gonna come. 2023 is shaping up to be a absolutely massive year for them in FA and it would have been relatively easy to do some more if that now. And I'm not sure the FA risks/downsides disappear. You'll overpay some. You'll probably get stuck with some bad deals. But you'll raise tye talent floor greatly.

 

I don't generally love any sort of feast/famine approach. Would be better to use some of those cap resources in 22.

[jersey cubs fan]

stop with your poles hating, he signed jesper horstad today

[mul21]

I'm more disappointed in Poles now then I was with Pace last year. He has cap space and needs, and has little to nothing to show for his efforts. Maybe his plan is right, but it looks entirely inept at the moment

 

I still think Fields can bounce back in a big way from his rookie year and all the Pace/Nagy bs the last few years, but it would be good if the GM and his coaches could help him out a bit. They haven't done horsefeathers thus far.

 

Problem isn't Poles, it's your expectations. Poles wasn't going to come in and build this team into a contender with 5 draft picks, little cap room, and like 23 players under contract. What's the threshold for you to be ok with what he's done? Did you want to pay Christian Kirk 19M per season? Did you want to trade 1 or more of the limited draft picks just for the right to pay a WR 20-25Mil/year (Cooper, Hill, Adams)? He tried to add Bates, but the deal was matched? They were in on other linemen who got paid more than they were willing to pay, and probably went to teams closer to winning than the Bears are.

 

I would have liked a stud lineman or proven WR as much as anyone else, but the only reason why you are disappointed is because he didn't do what you wanted him to do, not because of what he's done/hasn't done. If the Bears had signed Terron Armstead and traded for Robert Woods (using him because his trade value and contract are most reasonable of the deals made) they'd still be a team that's not good enough to seriously compete for a Superbowl, maybe not even a playoff spot. If you're that far away and need 21 other players, there's really not a point in hampering your future ability to add players by giving 15M/year to a 30+ year old or trading draft picks for a big salary or injury risk, in Woods' case.

 

The GM and the coaching is the help this year. Clearly those were huge issues for Fields last year, by his own admission at least in the Cleveland game. Just relax and give it more than 2 months.

 

I don't really disagree with you much, but if Fields gets killed this year because the O-Line is so bad and turns into David Carr then you've set yourself back another 3-4 years. It's certainly a fine line to walk.

[WrigleyField 22]

I'm more disappointed in Poles now then I was with Pace last year. He has cap space and needs, and has little to nothing to show for his efforts. Maybe his plan is right, but it looks entirely inept at the moment

 

I still think Fields can bounce back in a big way from his rookie year and all the Pace/Nagy bs the last few years, but it would be good if the GM and his coaches could help him out a bit. They haven't done horsefeathers thus far.

 

Problem isn't Poles, it's your expectations. Poles wasn't going to come in and build this team into a contender with 5 draft picks, little cap room, and like 23 players under contract. What's the threshold for you to be ok with what he's done? Did you want to pay Christian Kirk 19M per season? Did you want to trade 1 or more of the limited draft picks just for the right to pay a WR 20-25Mil/year (Cooper, Hill, Adams)? He tried to add Bates, but the deal was matched? They were in on other linemen who got paid more than they were willing to pay, and probably went to teams closer to winning than the Bears are.

 

I would have liked a stud lineman or proven WR as much as anyone else, but the only reason why you are disappointed is because he didn't do what you wanted him to do, not because of what he's done/hasn't done. If the Bears had signed Terron Armstead and traded for Robert Woods (using him because his trade value and contract are most reasonable of the deals made) they'd still be a team that's not good enough to seriously compete for a Superbowl, maybe not even a playoff spot. If you're that far away and need 21 other players, there's really not a point in hampering your future ability to add players by giving 15M/year to a 30+ year old or trading draft picks for a big salary or injury risk, in Woods' case.

 

The GM and the coaching is the help this year. Clearly those were huge issues for Fields last year, by his own admission at least in the Cleveland game. Just relax and give it more than 2 months.

 

I don't really disagree with you much, but if Fields gets killed this year because the O-Line is so bad and turns into David Carr then you've set yourself back another 3-4 years. It's certainly a fine line to walk.

I'm not overly concerned about him being David Carr'd. But I definitely don't think QB development is in a vaccum without influence. Supporting Fields helps his development. But if he also just has "it" and is ready to explode, relatively modest improvements make this a playoff team in 2022, so there is opportunity cost to punting too much to next year.

 

Anyways at this pace next year's spending splurge will probably put Bears 2018, Pats 2021, and Jags 2022 splurges to shame.

[raw]

I'm more disappointed in Poles now then I was with Pace last year. He has cap space and needs, and has little to nothing to show for his efforts. Maybe his plan is right, but it looks entirely inept at the moment

 

I still think Fields can bounce back in a big way from his rookie year and all the Pace/Nagy bs the last few years, but it would be good if the GM and his coaches could help him out a bit. They haven't done horsefeathers thus far.

 

Problem isn't Poles, it's your expectations. Poles wasn't going to come in and build this team into a contender with 5 draft picks, little cap room, and like 23 players under contract. What's the threshold for you to be ok with what he's done? Did you want to pay Christian Kirk 19M per season? Did you want to trade 1 or more of the limited draft picks just for the right to pay a WR 20-25Mil/year (Cooper, Hill, Adams)? He tried to add Bates, but the deal was matched? They were in on other linemen who got paid more than they were willing to pay, and probably went to teams closer to winning than the Bears are.

 

I would have liked a stud lineman or proven WR as much as anyone else, but the only reason why you are disappointed is because he didn't do what you wanted him to do, not because of what he's done/hasn't done. If the Bears had signed Terron Armstead and traded for Robert Woods (using him because his trade value and contract are most reasonable of the deals made) they'd still be a team that's not good enough to seriously compete for a Superbowl, maybe not even a playoff spot. If you're that far away and need 21 other players, there's really not a point in hampering your future ability to add players by giving 15M/year to a 30+ year old or trading draft picks for a big salary or injury risk, in Woods' case.

 

The GM and the coaching is the help this year. Clearly those were huge issues for Fields last year, by his own admission at least in the Cleveland game. Just relax and give it more than 2 months.

 

I don't really disagree with you much, but if Fields gets killed this year because the O-Line is so bad and turns into David Carr then you've set yourself back another 3-4 years. It's certainly a fine line to walk.

 

I mean, yeah that would be bad. But that's more of a coaching issue. The Bears OL wasn't any less talented than many OLs around the league. The problem was the combination of mediocre talent along with obvious pass downs and pass formations allowing pass rushers to tee off. One thing Getsy has said is that he wants the pass game to look like the run game. RPOs, playactions, extra TEs, staying out of obvious pass down and distances will help. It's not an ideal situation, but kind of is what it is at this point. Jenkins has gotta be good. Patrick has got to be a significant upgrade at C. The early draft picks have got to hit. At this point, got nothing else but to hope Poles/Cunningham (2 former offensive linemen) really know their stuff.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

Problem isn't Poles, it's your expectations. Poles wasn't going to come in and build this team into a contender with 5 draft picks, little cap room, and like 23 players under contract. What's the threshold for you to be ok with what he's done? Did you want to pay Christian Kirk 19M per season? Did you want to trade 1 or more of the limited draft picks just for the right to pay a WR 20-25Mil/year (Cooper, Hill, Adams)? He tried to add Bates, but the deal was matched? They were in on other linemen who got paid more than they were willing to pay, and probably went to teams closer to winning than the Bears are.

 

I would have liked a stud lineman or proven WR as much as anyone else, but the only reason why you are disappointed is because he didn't do what you wanted him to do, not because of what he's done/hasn't done. If the Bears had signed Terron Armstead and traded for Robert Woods (using him because his trade value and contract are most reasonable of the deals made) they'd still be a team that's not good enough to seriously compete for a Superbowl, maybe not even a playoff spot. If you're that far away and need 21 other players, there's really not a point in hampering your future ability to add players by giving 15M/year to a 30+ year old or trading draft picks for a big salary or injury risk, in Woods' case.

 

The GM and the coaching is the help this year. Clearly those were huge issues for Fields last year, by his own admission at least in the Cleveland game. Just relax and give it more than 2 months.

 

I don't really disagree with you much, but if Fields gets killed this year because the O-Line is so bad and turns into David Carr then you've set yourself back another 3-4 years. It's certainly a fine line to walk.

 

I mean, yeah that would be bad. But that's more of a coaching issue. The Bears OL wasn't any less talented than many OLs around the league. The problem was the combination of mediocre talent along with obvious pass downs and pass formations allowing pass rushers to tee off. One thing Getsy has said is that he wants the pass game to look like the run game. RPOs, playactions, extra TEs, staying out of obvious pass down and distances will help. It's not an ideal situation, but kind of is what it is at this point. Jenkins has gotta be good. Patrick has got to be a significant upgrade at C. The early draft picks have got to hit. At this point, got nothing else but to hope Poles/Cunningham (2 former offensive linemen) really know their stuff.

I'm counting on scheme upgrades, but why wouldn't you want both talent upgrades and scheme improvement?

 

And even if they hit on 38 or 49 for a RG, it's still a very thin depth chart. Would be much preferred if they have a reasonable answer for RG and even swing tackle or swing IOL before draft. Maybe in next 3.5 weeks there will be movement on that front. While some of the younger more high ceiling names are long gone there are some stop gaps.

 

Either that or really banking on post June 1 cuts. But they won't be the only team watching the waiver wire at that stage.

[raw]

 

I don't really disagree with you much, but if Fields gets killed this year because the O-Line is so bad and turns into David Carr then you've set yourself back another 3-4 years. It's certainly a fine line to walk.

 

I mean, yeah that would be bad. But that's more of a coaching issue. The Bears OL wasn't any less talented than many OLs around the league. The problem was the combination of mediocre talent along with obvious pass downs and pass formations allowing pass rushers to tee off. One thing Getsy has said is that he wants the pass game to look like the run game. RPOs, playactions, extra TEs, staying out of obvious pass down and distances will help. It's not an ideal situation, but kind of is what it is at this point. Jenkins has gotta be good. Patrick has got to be a significant upgrade at C. The early draft picks have got to hit. At this point, got nothing else but to hope Poles/Cunningham (2 former offensive linemen) really know their stuff.

I'm counting on scheme upgrades, but why wouldn't you want both talent upgrades and scheme improvement?

 

And even if they hit on 38 or 49 for a RG, it's still a very thin depth chart. Would be much preferred if they have a reasonable answer for RG and even swing tackle or swing IOL before draft. Maybe in next 3.5 weeks there will be movement on that front. While some of the younger more high ceiling names are long gone there are some stop gaps.

 

Either that or really banking on post June 1 cuts. But they won't be the only team watching the waiver wire at that stage.

 

Yeah that's my one big issue with Poles so far. He was willing to spend 13M per year on Ogunjobi but wasn't willing to spend that on a guard. 13M per could have gotten you any guard on the market. And 1 good-to-elite player on the OL would go a long way on an offense that doesn't have any.

[WrigleyField 22]

Yea I think I mentioned before, but in my opinion, Pace's OL failings were as much about depth as it was the starting 5. It's not a promising group.

 

And I still hate the idea they may be narrowed into like two positions among their top 3 picks.

[JeffH]

https://www.chicagobears.com/news/roster-move-bears-sign-te-ryan-griffin-one-year-contract

[raw]

Bears also signed Nickel CB, Tavon Young in addition to TE Ryan Griffin. Young is a formerly really good nickel. He's had a couple injuries in the past, including a torn ACL and missed a bunch of time. He did play all 17 in 2021, but was less effective than he had been previously. To be fair, the entire Ravens defensive backfield struggled last year for some reason, after previously being as elite of a group as there is in the NFL.

 

Griffin was formerly the Jets starting TE. Lot of experience. Not going to give Kmet a run for his money, but may be one of the better #2 TEs in the league. Played almost 56% of the Jets snaps last year which led skill players on that team. Can block and catch some. He doesn't fit with any of the other FAs Poles has signed because he's older than 28. Assuming Foles is cut/traded, he'd be the oldest non-longsnapper on the roster at 32 years old.

[WrigleyField 22]

Thought the Griffin money was kind of a lot for a #2 TE who isn't really a move TE. Like unless their running a lot of true big personnel isn't he a true backup for Kmet?

[raw]

Thought the Griffin money was kind of a lot for a #2 TE who isn't really a move TE. Like unless their running a lot of true big personnel isn't he a true backup for Kmet?

 

Yeah, over like 2.5Mil is a decent chunk for TE2. It's interesting because the Shanahan/Kubiak scheme isn't typically that big on 2TE sets. SF, LAR, and Minnesota all finished bottom five in plays with 12 personnel (1 RB, 2TEs). But Green Bay, where Getsy obviously came from, ran the 2nd most 2 TE sets (next to Miami, who almost never lined Gesicki up tight). GB didn't run much FB though. SF ran the most with a FB. Rams didn't have one at all. So, it just seems to me like they are putting it all on the table and seeing what works.

[WrigleyField 22]

To me it seemed like about 500k too much, but Young's seems like at least a 500k bargain. So altogether a good value day for Poles yesterday, but if you had given me both values and it was a price is right game, I'd have lost.

[UMFan83]

Not really buying it, but its making the rounds

 

[WrigleyField 22]

Not really buying it, but its making the rounds

 

I don't really think it has much validity, but also the moves they have made to date are not equivalent to many other moves teams make around a 2nd year QB historically. The big difference of course being regime change.

 

It is gonna be easier for Poles to cut bait. He doesn't have to tie his stakes to Fields. That's plainly factual.

[raw]

Not really buying it, but its making the rounds

 

I don't really think it has much validity, but also the moves they have made to date are not equivalent to many other moves teams make around a 2nd year QB historically. The big difference of course being regime change.

 

It is gonna be easier for Poles to cut bait. He doesn't have to tie his stakes to Fields. That's plainly factual.

 

Yeah and honestly, it's probably the smart way to play it. Pace put all his eggs in the Trubisky basket and went big to win with him in his rookie contract window in 2018 (Mack, ARob, paying players already on the team). If Poles did that and Fields wasn't the guy, that's basically a waste of time. If Fields shows what they expect him to, they can be the 2021 Bengals or 2020 Bills really quick. They will have the money and/or draft pick ammunition to add almost whoever they want with Fields.

[WrigleyField 22]

Not really buying it, but its making the rounds

 

I don't really think it has much validity, but also the moves they have made to date are not equivalent to many other moves teams make around a 2nd year QB historically. The big difference of course being regime change.

 

It is gonna be easier for Poles to cut bait. He doesn't have to tie his stakes to Fields. That's plainly factual.

 

Yeah and honestly, it's probably the smart way to play it. Pace put all his eggs in the Trubisky basket and went big to win with him in his rookie contract window in 2018 (Mack, ARob, paying players already on the team). If Poles did that and Fields wasn't the guy, that's basically a waste of time. If Fields shows what they expect him to, they can be the 2021 Bengals or 2020 Bills really quick. They will have the money and/or draft pick ammunition to add almost whoever they want with Fields.

Even with another couple splashes, they'd still have basically all the flexibility they would need in 23 to continue to build around Fields, if he hits. You basically have to buy really high on "his ultimate success will have very little (or none) to do with his 2022 supporting cast". That true even if they find 3 day 1 starters with their draft picks, because they've left little room for error (injury or otherwise).

 

It will be very frustrating if Fields does look like a star but they're like 8-9 because they were so overly patient and conservative on year 1. Kind of a waste of a year. Granted their schedule is so bad a 8 win season might not even be that impressive.

 

Anyways my highly controversial take is trying to win more games each year is good.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Not really buying it, but its making the rounds

 

I don't really think it has much validity, but also the moves they have made to date are not equivalent to many other moves teams make around a 2nd year QB historically. The big difference of course being regime change.

 

It is gonna be easier for Poles to cut bait. He doesn't have to tie his stakes to Fields. That's plainly factual.

 

Yeah and honestly, it's probably the smart way to play it. Pace put all his eggs in the Trubisky basket and went big to win with him in his rookie contract window in 2018 (Mack, ARob, paying players already on the team). If Poles did that and Fields wasn't the guy, that's basically a waste of time. If Fields shows what they expect him to, they can be the 2021 Bengals or 2020 Bills really quick. They will have the money and/or draft pick ammunition to add almost whoever they want with Fields.

Pace had a top 5 D to pair with Trubisky. That's a pretty good bet to make since you have 1/2 of the team already at top performance. If Trubisky hits big, the Bears are real good.

 

Poles has Fields,,,,,,and that's about it. He has to build SOMETHING

[raw]

I don't really think it has much validity, but also the moves they have made to date are not equivalent to many other moves teams make around a 2nd year QB historically. The big difference of course being regime change.

 

It is gonna be easier for Poles to cut bait. He doesn't have to tie his stakes to Fields. That's plainly factual.

 

Yeah and honestly, it's probably the smart way to play it. Pace put all his eggs in the Trubisky basket and went big to win with him in his rookie contract window in 2018 (Mack, ARob, paying players already on the team). If Poles did that and Fields wasn't the guy, that's basically a waste of time. If Fields shows what they expect him to, they can be the 2021 Bengals or 2020 Bills really quick. They will have the money and/or draft pick ammunition to add almost whoever they want with Fields.

Pace had a top 5 D to pair with Trubisky. That's a pretty good bet to make since you have 1/2 of the team already at top performance. If Trubisky hits big, the Bears are real good.

 

Poles has Fields,,,,,,and that's about it. He has to build SOMETHING

 

Yes, and that's why his approach does make sense. Fields alone doesn't make a team contend, despite being the most important piece. So, Poles concluded it didn't make much sense to pay an older guy like Mack, when he could trade him for a pick to select a younger player to build along with Fields. And why it didn't make much sense to him to spend big money on 1-2 positions to help Fields and potentially have those guys eating into cap room they'd need to really go for it with Fields.

 

I posted my mock offseason. I would have loved a proven WR. I really wanted Laken Tomlinson (and eventually Terron Armstead) to really solidify at least 1 spot on the OL. But I get why Poles didn't do that (or maybe he wasn't able?).

 

Hopefully, this time next year we're looking at a team that not only has Justin Fields to build around but also has Darnell Mooney, Cole Kmet, Teven Jenkins, Larry Borom, Khalil Herbert, and two 2022 2nd round picks who all stepped up to be part of this team's future on offense.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

Yeah and honestly, it's probably the smart way to play it. Pace put all his eggs in the Trubisky basket and went big to win with him in his rookie contract window in 2018 (Mack, ARob, paying players already on the team). If Poles did that and Fields wasn't the guy, that's basically a waste of time. If Fields shows what they expect him to, they can be the 2021 Bengals or 2020 Bills really quick. They will have the money and/or draft pick ammunition to add almost whoever they want with Fields.

Pace had a top 5 D to pair with Trubisky. That's a pretty good bet to make since you have 1/2 of the team already at top performance. If Trubisky hits big, the Bears are real good.

 

Poles has Fields,,,,,,and that's about it. He has to build SOMETHING

 

Yes, and that's why his approach does make sense. Fields alone doesn't make a team contend, despite being the most important piece. So, Poles concluded it didn't make much sense to pay an older guy like Mack, when he could trade him for a pick to select a younger player to build along with Fields. And why it didn't make much sense to him to spend big money on 1-2 positions to help Fields and potentially have those guys eating into cap room they'd need to really go for it with Fields.

 

I posted my mock offseason. I would have loved a proven WR. I really wanted Laken Tomlinson (and eventually Terron Armstead) to really solidify at least 1 spot on the OL. But I get why Poles didn't do that (or maybe he wasn't able?).

 

Hopefully, this time next year we're looking at a team that not only has Justin Fields to build around but also has Darnell Mooney, Cole Kmet, Teven Jenkins, Larry Borom, Khalil Herbert, and two 2022 2nd round picks who all stepped up to be part of this team's future on offense.

Yea I supported the Mack move partially because it also did open up cap go realloacote towards O and supporting Fields, while also helping to restock sorely needed draft capital.

 

But basically all that cap won't get tapped into until 2023 and it didn't have to be that way.

[WrigleyField 22]

Rounds 2-5 is just a convenient cutoff for Bears (2 in each of 2nd and 5th), but saw this and perked up

 

[Tryptamine]

Deebo Samuel has requested a trade from the 49ers. He's on the last year of his rookie contract so it would take a contract extension, but he's very young, super productive and would give Fields a true #1 WR. I'd love to add him to the squad, I just wonder if the Bears have the draft capital to pull something like this off when they have so many other holes to fill.

[WrigleyField 22]

Deebo Samuel has requested a trade from the 49ers. He's on the last year of his rookie contract so it would take a contract extension, but he's very young, super productive and would give Fields a true #1 WR. I'd love to add him to the squad, I just wonder if the Bears have the draft capital to pull something like this off when they have so many other holes to fill.

I'm pretty near absolutely opposed to any trade where they gotta turn right back around for some massive extension. And I'm by no means cap cautious (quite the contrary), but they do really gotta start hitting and developing draft picks.

 

Anyways I bet 49ers will priorize a AFC team if they can. KC makes too much sense.

[raw]

Deebo Samuel has requested a trade from the 49ers. He's on the last year of his rookie contract so it would take a contract extension, but he's very young, super productive and would give Fields a true #1 WR. I'd love to add him to the squad, I just wonder if the Bears have the draft capital to pull something like this off when they have so many other holes to fill.

 

Adams took a 1 and 2. Tyreke Hill took a 1 and 2 + some day 3 picks next year. Bears don't have the 1 to give this year, but a 2 this year (39) and a 1st next year, would probably get the deal done. That being said, I don't think it's likely. Won't cost as much AAV and we know he fits in what Getsy says he's going to run, but I just can't see it with the way Poles has played the rest of this offseason.