The Bears still have to play games (I guess it's Packers week too)

[WrigleyField 22]

Dane Brugler at the Athletic had a mock draft today. Had Trevor Lawrence going at 1, Zach Wilson at 2, Justin Fields at 6, Trey Lance at 8 and had the Bears getting Northwestern OL Rashawn Slater at 14 (the second OL drafted after Penei Sewell).

 

One might disagree with the specific order of the QBs drafted but it does seem reasonable to think that the top 4 QBs would be gone by 8. Hopefully the Bears can lose their way into the top 8 (and Washington can win their division) because Pace will definitely trade away too many draft picks to flail at another QB. I really hope Pace doesn't get another chance to pick a QB.

 

IMO, there's a steep dropoff going from Wilson/Fields to Lance. Lance is gifted as hell but like Trubisky is raw. Obviously, we've seen nothing that points this current group to being able to develop a QB.

 

I'm all for drafting Slater or Cosmi in the 1st and drafting the best interior OL in the 2nd and letting the next FO draft a QB as it appears this group will back next year. If they have any hope of keeping their jobs next year, they would be best off protecting Foles.

You really thing Nagy and Pace are back? Its really hard to see them both back as a package deal. Nagy appears to have lost the D, and the O is no better than when he arrived. Pace enters the last year of his deal too, so he's not in great spot to just let him lame duck it with Nagy also on the hot seat if he stayed.

 

Maybe Pace has mesmerized the McCaskey's enough to outlive Nagy, but its hard to see both back... mostly its hard to imagine Nagy back. Damn that would be dumb though.

[UK]

Dane Brugler at the Athletic had a mock draft today. Had Trevor Lawrence going at 1, Zach Wilson at 2, Justin Fields at 6, Trey Lance at 8 and had the Bears getting Northwestern OL Rashawn Slater at 14 (the second OL drafted after Penei Sewell).

 

One might disagree with the specific order of the QBs drafted but it does seem reasonable to think that the top 4 QBs would be gone by 8. Hopefully the Bears can lose their way into the top 8 (and Washington can win their division) because Pace will definitely trade away too many draft picks to flail at another QB. I really hope Pace doesn't get another chance to pick a QB.

 

 

 

IMO, there's a steep dropoff going from Wilson/Fields to Lance. Lance is gifted as hell but like Trubisky is raw. Obviously, we've seen nothing that points this current group to being able to develop a QB.

 

I'm all for drafting Slater or Cosmi in the 1st and drafting the best interior OL in the 2nd and letting the next FO draft a QB as it appears this group will back next year. If they have any hope of keeping their jobs next year, they would be best off protecting Foles.

You really thing Nagy and Pace are back? Its really hard to see them both back as a package deal. Nagy appears to have lost the D, and the O is no better than when he arrived. Pace enters the last year of his deal too, so he's not in great spot to just let him lame duck it with Nagy also on the hot seat if he stayed.

 

Maybe Pace has mesmerized the McCaskey's enough to outlive Nagy, but its hard to see both back... mostly its hard to imagine Nagy back. Damn that would be dumb though.

 

I hope I'm wrong but ownership seems to still trust Pace while Pace seems content to look at Nagy's coaching record and go for one more year.

 

That might change if they lose out or have several repeats of Sunday night.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

 

 

IMO, there's a steep dropoff going from Wilson/Fields to Lance. Lance is gifted as hell but like Trubisky is raw. Obviously, we've seen nothing that points this current group to being able to develop a QB.

 

I'm all for drafting Slater or Cosmi in the 1st and drafting the best interior OL in the 2nd and letting the next FO draft a QB as it appears this group will back next year. If they have any hope of keeping their jobs next year, they would be best off protecting Foles.

You really thing Nagy and Pace are back? Its really hard to see them both back as a package deal. Nagy appears to have lost the D, and the O is no better than when he arrived. Pace enters the last year of his deal too, so he's not in great spot to just let him lame duck it with Nagy also on the hot seat if he stayed.

 

Maybe Pace has mesmerized the McCaskey's enough to outlive Nagy, but its hard to see both back... mostly its hard to imagine Nagy back. Damn that would be dumb though.

 

I hope I'm wrong but ownership seems to still trust Pace while Pace seems content to look at Nagy's coaching record and go for one more year.

 

That might change if they lose out or have several repeats of Sunday night.

Well I suppose a lot comes down to Pace. If McCaskeys do have complete faith in him they wouldn't necessarily force his hand on Nagy.

 

So it comes back to Paces contract status. If he's a lame duck, he's in a tough spot to hire and also in a tough spot to put his fate in the hands of Nagy. If he has an extension in hand he can have a bit more faith in going in with Nagy and trying to win, and he may still be comfortable he could make a coaching change in 2022.

 

It's also possible that McCaskeys like Pace a lot, but if they're not satisfied with his plan to address the O in 2021, that could seal his fate?

 

I suppose they almost certainly aren't going to make any move mid-year. So yea to some extent the next 5 games matter. Maybe Nagy hasn't actually lost the D for good though I kind of doubt it.

[raw]

Yeah, the Bears have the perfect setup if they decide to move on from Pace and Nagy. Pace in the last year of his deal. Nagy will still end the season with a winning record overall in his 3 years, but it's clear the offense isn't good enough and he's an offensive guy. Pace's moves this offseason reeked of desperation. He signed got older AND more expensive at TE and OLB, re-signed the older Trevathan based on his leadership and basically tried to stay status quo everywhere else. Those are the moves of a guy that either A) feels his team is close but needs a couple tweaks or B) is trying his damndest to win games because his job is at stake.

 

The Bears don't fire people midseason, so no reason to expect anything to happen before Black Monday. And despite losing 5 straight, i don't see anyway they lose out. Detroit is just as big of a mess as the Bears are. Houston is playing much better of late, but lost their #1 WR for the year due to PEDs. Jacksonville is not actively trying to win games. 3 wins to finish are possible, if not probable. But at this point, that can't be enough to keep them. There's too much incentive for a lame duck GM to make more moves like Quinn and Graham. And there's no desire for a lame duck to rebuild. Throw in the fact that the Bears need to draft a QB of the future, I know the Bears ownership is football stupid, but they can't allow Pace to be the guy making that pick.

[minnesotacubsfan]

.... There's too much incentive for a lame duck GM to make more moves like Quinn and Graham. And there's no desire for a lame duck to rebuild. Throw in the fact that the Bears need to draft a QB of the future, I know the Bears ownership is football stupid, but they can't allow Pace to be the guy making that pick.

 

not that I would do it again because he deeply overpaid, but Graham hasn't been the worst addition. He's played adequate (5 tds in 11 games) and gives Kmet some solid tutorship.

 

As for Pace, I want him gone. I don't trust he would be able to stand pat if it looked like he wasn't going to get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. I worry deeply he would trade up again and further handcuff the team with lack of draft pics. Thats the mess we got into with Cutler (2 1st rds) and Trubisky. Enough. If you cant get one of the top 4, stay where you are and draft best avail, preferably at OT, WR, EDGE

[raw]

.... There's too much incentive for a lame duck GM to make more moves like Quinn and Graham. And there's no desire for a lame duck to rebuild. Throw in the fact that the Bears need to draft a QB of the future, I know the Bears ownership is football stupid, but they can't allow Pace to be the guy making that pick.

 

not that I would do it again because he deeply overpaid, but Graham hasn't been the worst addition. He's played adequate (5 tds in 11 games) and gives Kmet some solid tutorship.

 

As for Pace, I want him gone. I don't trust he would be able to stand pat if it looked like he wasn't going to get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. I worry deeply he would trade up again and further handcuff the team with lack of draft pics. Thats the mess we got into with Cutler (2 1st rds) and Trubisky. Enough. If you cant get one of the top 4, stay where you are and draft best avail, preferably at OT, WR, EDGE

 

Eh. I know everyone hates trades up, but the Trubisky trade up wasn't the issue. It was Trubisky the player. The Chiefs and Texans traded MUCH more for Mahomes and Watson and nobody cares because they are top 3 QBs. I wouldn't mind if Pace traded up again in this draft. My issue would be with the fact that the man who picked Trubisky, Foles, and Glennon would be picking the QB.

[WrigleyField 22]

.... There's too much incentive for a lame duck GM to make more moves like Quinn and Graham. And there's no desire for a lame duck to rebuild. Throw in the fact that the Bears need to draft a QB of the future, I know the Bears ownership is football stupid, but they can't allow Pace to be the guy making that pick.

 

not that I would do it again because he deeply overpaid, but Graham hasn't been the worst addition. He's played adequate (5 tds in 11 games) and gives Kmet some solid tutorship.

 

As for Pace, I want him gone. I don't trust he would be able to stand pat if it looked like he wasn't going to get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. I worry deeply he would trade up again and further handcuff the team with lack of draft pics. Thats the mess we got into with Cutler (2 1st rds) and Trubisky. Enough. If you cant get one of the top 4, stay where you are and draft best avail, preferably at OT, WR, EDGE

The 5 TDs don't really tell a true story. The red zone is the only area he's been good in and honest to God, they could have kept Shaheen to just be a big goalline target.

 

Hopefully there's some serious mentorship going on for Kmet.

[WrigleyField 22]

Yeah, the Bears have the perfect setup if they decide to move on from Pace and Nagy. Pace in the last year of his deal. Nagy will still end the season with a winning record overall in his 3 years, but it's clear the offense isn't good enough and he's an offensive guy. Pace's moves this offseason reeked of desperation. He signed got older AND more expensive at TE and OLB, re-signed the older Trevathan based on his leadership and basically tried to stay status quo everywhere else. Those are the moves of a guy that either A) feels his team is close but needs a couple tweaks or B) is trying his damndest to win games because his job is at stake.

 

The Bears don't fire people midseason, so no reason to expect anything to happen before Black Monday. And despite losing 5 straight, i don't see anyway they lose out. Detroit is just as big of a mess as the Bears are. Houston is playing much better of late, but lost their #1 WR for the year due to PEDs. Jacksonville is not actively trying to win games. 3 wins to finish are possible, if not probable. But at this point, that can't be enough to keep them. There's too much incentive for a lame duck GM to make more moves like Quinn and Graham. And there's no desire for a lame duck to rebuild. Throw in the fact that the Bears need to draft a QB of the future, I know the Bears ownership is football stupid, but they can't allow Pace to be the guy making that pick.

Lions may be a mess, but they could get that interim head coach dead cat bounce.

 

I mean, even if their DC figures out that they can just play zone against Trubisky, they probably win on that adjustment alone, let alone the players actually trying and 50/50 shot the Bears players try.

 

But they probably won't lose out. Jax is in on the tank and Texans are bad too. 6 or 7 wins seems about right though.

[minnesotacubsfan]

.... There's too much incentive for a lame duck GM to make more moves like Quinn and Graham. And there's no desire for a lame duck to rebuild. Throw in the fact that the Bears need to draft a QB of the future, I know the Bears ownership is football stupid, but they can't allow Pace to be the guy making that pick.

 

not that I would do it again because he deeply overpaid, but Graham hasn't been the worst addition. He's played adequate (5 tds in 11 games) and gives Kmet some solid tutorship.

 

As for Pace, I want him gone. I don't trust he would be able to stand pat if it looked like he wasn't going to get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. I worry deeply he would trade up again and further handcuff the team with lack of draft pics. Thats the mess we got into with Cutler (2 1st rds) and Trubisky. Enough. If you cant get one of the top 4, stay where you are and draft best avail, preferably at OT, WR, EDGE

 

Eh. I know everyone hates trades up, but the Trubisky trade up wasn't the issue. It was Trubisky the player. The Chiefs and Texans traded MUCH more for Mahomes and Watson and nobody cares because they are top 3 QBs. I wouldn't mind if Pace traded up again in this draft. My issue would be with the fact that the man who picked Trubisky, Foles, and Glennon would be picking the QB.

 

 

I wouldn't disagree about trading up this season if I felt Pace could competently make that pick, buuuu....

 

also, trading up one pick because you felt threatened when there were 3 possible outcomes all with talent was horsefeathering stupid. I flat out disagree with you on that. He was playing checkers when the rest of the NFL was playing chess.

[minnesotacubsfan]

.... There's too much incentive for a lame duck GM to make more moves like Quinn and Graham. And there's no desire for a lame duck to rebuild. Throw in the fact that the Bears need to draft a QB of the future, I know the Bears ownership is football stupid, but they can't allow Pace to be the guy making that pick.

 

not that I would do it again because he deeply overpaid, but Graham hasn't been the worst addition. He's played adequate (5 tds in 11 games) and gives Kmet some solid tutorship.

 

As for Pace, I want him gone. I don't trust he would be able to stand pat if it looked like he wasn't going to get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. I worry deeply he would trade up again and further handcuff the team with lack of draft pics. Thats the mess we got into with Cutler (2 1st rds) and Trubisky. Enough. If you cant get one of the top 4, stay where you are and draft best avail, preferably at OT, WR, EDGE

The 5 TDs don't really tell a true story. The red zone is the only area he's been good in and honest to God, they could have kept Shaheen to just be a big goalline target.

 

Hopefully there's some serious mentorship going on for Kmet.

 

Shaheen barely has 5 tds in his CAREER. Like I said, I wouldn't do the deal again because of what we paid Graham, but I don't feel like its the biggest mistake Pace has made. Its really just another mistake, but one you can deal with. What might be a bigger problem is the way Nagy uses TE's, ie play calling

 

Kmet gets to learn from one of the truly good TE's in the game. Granted it doesn't mean anything if Kmet is a tool or no-talent hack, but that hasn't been my impression of him. I feel like its 89% play calling

[WrigleyField 22]

 

not that I would do it again because he deeply overpaid, but Graham hasn't been the worst addition. He's played adequate (5 tds in 11 games) and gives Kmet some solid tutorship.

 

As for Pace, I want him gone. I don't trust he would be able to stand pat if it looked like he wasn't going to get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. I worry deeply he would trade up again and further handcuff the team with lack of draft pics. Thats the mess we got into with Cutler (2 1st rds) and Trubisky. Enough. If you cant get one of the top 4, stay where you are and draft best avail, preferably at OT, WR, EDGE

The 5 TDs don't really tell a true story. The red zone is the only area he's been good in and honest to God, they could have kept Shaheen to just be a big goalline target.

 

Hopefully there's some serious mentorship going on for Kmet.

 

Shaheen barely has 5 tds in his CAREER. Like I said, I wouldn't do the deal again because of what we paid Graham, but I don't feel like its the biggest mistake Pace has made. Its really just another mistake, but one you can deal with. What might be a bigger problem is the way Nagy uses TE's, ie play calling

 

Kmet gets to learn from one of the truly good TE's in the game. Granted it doesn't mean anything if Kmet is a tool or no-talent hack, but that hasn't been my impression of him. I feel like its 89% play calling

Shaheen actually has 3 TD catches for the Fins this year. Catching goalline throws is the one thing he can kind of do. And he could have done it for a fraction of the cost. So between Graham and Quinn money maybe they could have invested in the line. Throw Foles money and the 4th they gave up as well. That's tons of money and a draft pick hardly doing anything.

 

Graham has been meh. I've found his play infuriating at times. So he's a decent TE but I don't know if theres anything inherent Kmet can pick up just by being in his presence. Maybe he's a good mentor beyond his play, though. I don't know.

[raw]

 

not that I would do it again because he deeply overpaid, but Graham hasn't been the worst addition. He's played adequate (5 tds in 11 games) and gives Kmet some solid tutorship.

 

As for Pace, I want him gone. I don't trust he would be able to stand pat if it looked like he wasn't going to get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. I worry deeply he would trade up again and further handcuff the team with lack of draft pics. Thats the mess we got into with Cutler (2 1st rds) and Trubisky. Enough. If you cant get one of the top 4, stay where you are and draft best avail, preferably at OT, WR, EDGE

 

Eh. I know everyone hates trades up, but the Trubisky trade up wasn't the issue. It was Trubisky the player. The Chiefs and Texans traded MUCH more for Mahomes and Watson and nobody cares because they are top 3 QBs. I wouldn't mind if Pace traded up again in this draft. My issue would be with the fact that the man who picked Trubisky, Foles, and Glennon would be picking the QB.

 

 

I wouldn't disagree about trading up this season if I felt Pace could competently make that pick, buuuu....

 

also, trading up one pick because you felt threatened when there were 3 possible outcomes all with talent was horsefeathering stupid. I flat out disagree with you on that. He was playing checkers when the rest of the NFL was playing chess.

 

I still feel like this is you having an issue with the result more than the process. You can say Pace could have stayed at 3 and ended up with Mahomes if Trubisky went at 2. But if Pace had Trubisky as his #1 QB, then the other possible outcomes are not as ideal in his eyes.

[minnesotacubsfan]

....

 

I still feel like this is you having an issue with the result more than the process. You can say Pace could have stayed at 3 and ended up with Mahomes if Trubisky went at 2. But if Pace had Trubisky as his #1 QB, then the other possible outcomes are not as ideal in his eyes.

 

yes, but Pace is a moron. I think we all know that

[jersey cubs fan]

.... There's too much incentive for a lame duck GM to make more moves like Quinn and Graham. And there's no desire for a lame duck to rebuild. Throw in the fact that the Bears need to draft a QB of the future, I know the Bears ownership is football stupid, but they can't allow Pace to be the guy making that pick.

 

not that I would do it again because he deeply overpaid, but Graham hasn't been the worst addition. He's played adequate (5 tds in 11 games) and gives Kmet some solid tutorship.

 

As for Pace, I want him gone. I don't trust he would be able to stand pat if it looked like he wasn't going to get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. I worry deeply he would trade up again and further handcuff the team with lack of draft pics. Thats the mess we got into with Cutler (2 1st rds) and Trubisky. Enough. If you cant get one of the top 4, stay where you are and draft best avail, preferably at OT, WR, EDGE

 

Eh. I know everyone hates trades up, but the Trubisky trade up wasn't the issue. It was Trubisky the player. The Chiefs and Texans traded MUCH more for Mahomes and Watson and nobody cares because they are top 3 QBs. I wouldn't mind if Pace traded up again in this draft. My issue would be with the fact that the man who picked Trubisky, Foles, and Glennon would be picking the QB.

I maintain that a combo of Pace and Nagy making that pick together has a legit chance to select the right guy. This staff has had its doubts about Mitch from day one. They brought in veteran babysitters for their knowledge, and sure, Pace grossly overpaid them but that's a different issue. Pace has a valuation problem which showed in his trade ups and several, but not all, signings.

 

There's reason to move on from Pace and Nagy this year, but I doubt they'll hire a better duo. Last time they moved on from mediocrity because they couldn't figure out the QB position they had a disaster hire. I think they are at least as likely to have Pace and Nagy collectively figure out a QB than they are to find a new GM/coach/QB. There can be value in stability, especially when you're coming out of a decade of turnover and turmoil.

 

Just going back to the Ditka decade, that was followed by Wanny getting 6 years, Jauron getting 5, Lovie getting 9 and then Trestman with 2 and Fox with 3. They have to be thinking about turnover every 2-3 years not looking good. I think ownership wants to make it work with these two guys. They aren't incompetent. They put together the first 12 win team in over a decade. They've fielded competitive teams.

 

Barring a meltdown to end the season, they can see justification for keeping the band together. Might as well extend the guys through 2023 at what would have to be a discount coming off down years. Do away with the lame duck concerns for the next two years while having them live through their own 2020 signing decisions.

[minnesotacubsfan]

jersey, I dont know where you get your faith, but send me some please

 

I would say that Pace and Nagy are certainly better hires the Trestman and Emery, but I fear their issue is more then just QB. Pace drafted Mitch, if he had concerns why did he trade UP to get him? Why not just stand pat and take what comes to you? And I realize it was only one slot, but there is little to no evidence he was going to lose Mitch to some other mystery team other then the idea that SF was suggesting it iirc.

[jersey cubs fan]

jersey, I dont know where you get your faith, but send me some please

 

I would say that Pace and Nagy are certainly better hires the Trestman and Emery, but I fear their issue is more then just QB. Pace drafted Mitch, if he had concerns why did he trade UP to get him? Why not just stand pat and take what comes to you? And I realize it was only one slot, but there is little to no evidence he was going to lose Mitch to some other mystery team other then the idea that SF was suggesting it iirc.

I was referring to the coaching staff having doubts/concerns about Mitch when they came in, not Pace when he drafted them.

 

Pace messed up with the selection and the trade up, I'm not suggesting otherwise. That's why I think Pace with Nagy might be able to choose the next guy. Obviously Pace can't be trusted to do it on his own. I have no idea who he'd hire as a replacement coach if he gets the inexplicable opportunity to hire another. But that guy would have to insist on major input into the draft selection, something Fox didn't get. Unless he hires some newby who doesn't have the clout to impact that selection.

 

It's less faith than a belief that the McCaskeys want to emulate the stability of the Steelers. They have to be jealous of the stability of that head coaching position. 3 head coaches in 50 years. That's the kind of thing blue blood families can be proud of. Constant turnover and turmoil is the way of the nouveau riche like Snyder. They don't want to be like that.

Edited December 1, 2020 by jersey cubs fan

[minnesotacubsfan]

I was referring to the coaching staff having doubts/concerns about Mitch when they came in, not Pace when he drafted them.

 

ah, I did misread your post then

[raw]

 

not that I would do it again because he deeply overpaid, but Graham hasn't been the worst addition. He's played adequate (5 tds in 11 games) and gives Kmet some solid tutorship.

 

As for Pace, I want him gone. I don't trust he would be able to stand pat if it looked like he wasn't going to get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. I worry deeply he would trade up again and further handcuff the team with lack of draft pics. Thats the mess we got into with Cutler (2 1st rds) and Trubisky. Enough. If you cant get one of the top 4, stay where you are and draft best avail, preferably at OT, WR, EDGE

 

Eh. I know everyone hates trades up, but the Trubisky trade up wasn't the issue. It was Trubisky the player. The Chiefs and Texans traded MUCH more for Mahomes and Watson and nobody cares because they are top 3 QBs. I wouldn't mind if Pace traded up again in this draft. My issue would be with the fact that the man who picked Trubisky, Foles, and Glennon would be picking the QB.

I maintain that a combo of Pace and Nagy making that pick together has a legit chance to select the right guy. This staff has had its doubts about Mitch from day one. They brought in veteran babysitters for their knowledge, and sure, Pace grossly overpaid them but that's a different issue. Pace has a valuation problem which showed in his trade ups and several, but not all, signings.

 

There's reason to move on from Pace and Nagy this year, but I doubt they'll hire a better duo. Last time they moved on from mediocrity because they couldn't figure out the QB position they had a disaster hire. I think they are at least as likely to have Pace and Nagy collectively figure out a QB than they are to find a new GM/coach/QB. There can be value in stability, especially when you're coming out of a decade of turnover and turmoil.

 

Just going back to the Ditka decade, that was followed by Wanny getting 6 years, Jauron getting 5, Lovie getting 9 and then Trestman with 2 and Fox with 3. They have to be thinking about turnover every 2-3 years not looking good. I think ownership wants to make it work with these two guys. They aren't incompetent. They put together the first 12 win team in over a decade. They've fielded competitive teams.

 

Barring a meltdown to end the season, they can see justification for keeping the band together. Might as well extend the guys through 2023 at what would have to be a discount coming off down years. Do away with the lame duck concerns for the next two years while having them live through their own 2020 signing decisions.

 

Yeah, I kinda feel that way too. I do buy that the McKaskey's love Pace, and the whole revamping of Halas Hall shows that they were in on Pace for the long haul. My first hangup is the lame duck contract situation. I do kinda feel like the decision is either fire or extend this offseason. Can't have a lame duck situation. That benefits nobody. The other is that GMs don't typically get to hire 3 coaches. Maybe there is some legitimacy to Fox being pushed on him and not counting against Pace, but I feel you have to get rid of Nagy if not Pace. Nagy's record is fine, but clearly not sustainable without an offense, and he was brought here to fix the offense. He was brought in to groom Trubisky, then got a handpicked QB that knew his system to show it wasn't him but the QB, and both have failed. I don't think you can bring in a new QB and assume he can put him in the best position at this point. While it may be unfair to Nagy that he was strapped to Mitch (especially if Pace is not), it kinda is what it has to be at this point.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

Eh. I know everyone hates trades up, but the Trubisky trade up wasn't the issue. It was Trubisky the player. The Chiefs and Texans traded MUCH more for Mahomes and Watson and nobody cares because they are top 3 QBs. I wouldn't mind if Pace traded up again in this draft. My issue would be with the fact that the man who picked Trubisky, Foles, and Glennon would be picking the QB.

I maintain that a combo of Pace and Nagy making that pick together has a legit chance to select the right guy. This staff has had its doubts about Mitch from day one. They brought in veteran babysitters for their knowledge, and sure, Pace grossly overpaid them but that's a different issue. Pace has a valuation problem which showed in his trade ups and several, but not all, signings.

 

There's reason to move on from Pace and Nagy this year, but I doubt they'll hire a better duo. Last time they moved on from mediocrity because they couldn't figure out the QB position they had a disaster hire. I think they are at least as likely to have Pace and Nagy collectively figure out a QB than they are to find a new GM/coach/QB. There can be value in stability, especially when you're coming out of a decade of turnover and turmoil.

 

Just going back to the Ditka decade, that was followed by Wanny getting 6 years, Jauron getting 5, Lovie getting 9 and then Trestman with 2 and Fox with 3. They have to be thinking about turnover every 2-3 years not looking good. I think ownership wants to make it work with these two guys. They aren't incompetent. They put together the first 12 win team in over a decade. They've fielded competitive teams.

 

Barring a meltdown to end the season, they can see justification for keeping the band together. Might as well extend the guys through 2023 at what would have to be a discount coming off down years. Do away with the lame duck concerns for the next two years while having them live through their own 2020 signing decisions.

 

Yeah, I kinda feel that way too. I do buy that the McKaskey's love Pace, and the whole revamping of Halas Hall shows that they were in on Pace for the long haul. My first hangup is the lame duck contract situation. I do kinda feel like the decision is either fire or extend this offseason. Can't have a lame duck situation. That benefits nobody. The other is that GMs don't typically get to hire 3 coaches. Maybe there is some legitimacy to Fox being pushed on him and not counting against Pace, but I feel you have to get rid of Nagy if not Pace. Nagy's record is fine, but clearly not sustainable without an offense, and he was brought here to fix the offense. He was brought in to groom Trubisky, then got a handpicked QB that knew his system to show it wasn't him but the QB, and both have failed. I don't think you can bring in a new QB and assume he can put him in the best position at this point. While it may be unfair to Nagy that he was strapped to Mitch (especially if Pace is not), it kinda is what it has to be at this point.

 

how do you feel about Lazor's play calling? Granted, it could be hard to judge based on the junk time he had on Sunday night, but could the combo of Nagy HC and Lazor play caller work going forward?

 

I thought Lazor dialed up some good plays, some Mitch hit on, others he completely missed. Which begs the question, can Mitch grow with Lazor or is he just flat out too stupid?

[WrigleyField 22]

 

not that I would do it again because he deeply overpaid, but Graham hasn't been the worst addition. He's played adequate (5 tds in 11 games) and gives Kmet some solid tutorship.

 

As for Pace, I want him gone. I don't trust he would be able to stand pat if it looked like he wasn't going to get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. I worry deeply he would trade up again and further handcuff the team with lack of draft pics. Thats the mess we got into with Cutler (2 1st rds) and Trubisky. Enough. If you cant get one of the top 4, stay where you are and draft best avail, preferably at OT, WR, EDGE

 

Eh. I know everyone hates trades up, but the Trubisky trade up wasn't the issue. It was Trubisky the player. The Chiefs and Texans traded MUCH more for Mahomes and Watson and nobody cares because they are top 3 QBs. I wouldn't mind if Pace traded up again in this draft. My issue would be with the fact that the man who picked Trubisky, Foles, and Glennon would be picking the QB.

I maintain that a combo of Pace and Nagy making that pick together has a legit chance to select the right guy. This staff has had its doubts about Mitch from day one. They brought in veteran babysitters for their knowledge, and sure, Pace grossly overpaid them but that's a different issue. Pace has a valuation problem which showed in his trade ups and several, but not all, signings.

 

There's reason to move on from Pace and Nagy this year, but I doubt they'll hire a better duo. Last time they moved on from mediocrity because they couldn't figure out the QB position they had a disaster hire. I think they are at least as likely to have Pace and Nagy collectively figure out a QB than they are to find a new GM/coach/QB. There can be value in stability, especially when you're coming out of a decade of turnover and turmoil.

 

Just going back to the Ditka decade, that was followed by Wanny getting 6 years, Jauron getting 5, Lovie getting 9 and then Trestman with 2 and Fox with 3. They have to be thinking about turnover every 2-3 years not looking good. I think ownership wants to make it work with these two guys. They aren't incompetent. They put together the first 12 win team in over a decade. They've fielded competitive teams.

 

Barring a meltdown to end the season, they can see justification for keeping the band together. Might as well extend the guys through 2023 at what would have to be a discount coming off down years. Do away with the lame duck concerns for the next two years while having them live through their own 2020 signing decisions.

Its really dependent on Nagy not totally losing the roster I think. That game Sunday was not quite as bad, but reminiscent of Trestman losing the locker room.. or at least losing the D. Maybe Pace survives that, but not Nagy. He apparently dogged on the D on his Monday presser, which while true, we'll see if that goes over well. I could see guys not taking kindly to constantly keeping the team in games all the year only to lose because the offense can't put up 20 points, and then get ragged on their first bad performance.

 

Assuming Nagy can get the roster back "in order", it seems pretty clear Nagy isn't an offensive mastermind, so the investment balance on each side of the ball has to get in order, because Nagy isn't going to lift up an offense where the D can just carry the rest of the team. So kind of feels like limited potential long term coach. But I guess we'll see how the next 5 games go, and especially the Detroit game this week. Its an easy schedule, so if they come out firing against Detroit, 8 wins seems pretty doable and 9 wins could be a playoff birth with 2 meaningful division games that could get them to the 9th win. But I have my doubts. 7 wins is looking more likely to me.

 

As it relates to stability, its my understanding Pace has done a lot with modernizing and upgrading the FO of the Bears. The staffing has greatly grown and he was part of overhauling Halas Hall and shaping a legit NFL facility. So even if they move on from Pace, he's hopefully laid some sort of organizational structure that a predecessor can largely leverage. From that standpoint the turnover may not be as big of a deal as it was in the late 90s and even in 2013 when the Bears were basically running like a mom and pop shop. Maybe Pace just is the A to B guy, and they can get a B to C guy, without restarting from A again.

[WrigleyField 22]

jersey, I dont know where you get your faith, but send me some please

 

I would say that Pace and Nagy are certainly better hires the Trestman and Emery, but I fear their issue is more then just QB. Pace drafted Mitch, if he had concerns why did he trade UP to get him? Why not just stand pat and take what comes to you? And I realize it was only one slot, but there is little to no evidence he was going to lose Mitch to some other mystery team other then the idea that SF was suggesting it iirc.

It's less faith than a belief that the McCaskeys want to emulate the stability of the Steelers. They have to be jealous of the stability of that head coaching position. 3 head coaches in 50 years. That's the kind of thing blue blood families can be proud of. Constant turnover and turmoil is the way of the nouveau riche like Snyder. They don't want to be like that.

This might be true, but doesn't necessarily mesh with the Lovie situation. Though maybe they have buyers remorse on that?

[raw]

I maintain that a combo of Pace and Nagy making that pick together has a legit chance to select the right guy. This staff has had its doubts about Mitch from day one. They brought in veteran babysitters for their knowledge, and sure, Pace grossly overpaid them but that's a different issue. Pace has a valuation problem which showed in his trade ups and several, but not all, signings.

 

There's reason to move on from Pace and Nagy this year, but I doubt they'll hire a better duo. Last time they moved on from mediocrity because they couldn't figure out the QB position they had a disaster hire. I think they are at least as likely to have Pace and Nagy collectively figure out a QB than they are to find a new GM/coach/QB. There can be value in stability, especially when you're coming out of a decade of turnover and turmoil.

 

Just going back to the Ditka decade, that was followed by Wanny getting 6 years, Jauron getting 5, Lovie getting 9 and then Trestman with 2 and Fox with 3. They have to be thinking about turnover every 2-3 years not looking good. I think ownership wants to make it work with these two guys. They aren't incompetent. They put together the first 12 win team in over a decade. They've fielded competitive teams.

 

Barring a meltdown to end the season, they can see justification for keeping the band together. Might as well extend the guys through 2023 at what would have to be a discount coming off down years. Do away with the lame duck concerns for the next two years while having them live through their own 2020 signing decisions.

 

Yeah, I kinda feel that way too. I do buy that the McKaskey's love Pace, and the whole revamping of Halas Hall shows that they were in on Pace for the long haul. My first hangup is the lame duck contract situation. I do kinda feel like the decision is either fire or extend this offseason. Can't have a lame duck situation. That benefits nobody. The other is that GMs don't typically get to hire 3 coaches. Maybe there is some legitimacy to Fox being pushed on him and not counting against Pace, but I feel you have to get rid of Nagy if not Pace. Nagy's record is fine, but clearly not sustainable without an offense, and he was brought here to fix the offense. He was brought in to groom Trubisky, then got a handpicked QB that knew his system to show it wasn't him but the QB, and both have failed. I don't think you can bring in a new QB and assume he can put him in the best position at this point. While it may be unfair to Nagy that he was strapped to Mitch (especially if Pace is not), it kinda is what it has to be at this point.

 

how do you feel about Lazor's play calling? Granted, it could be hard to judge based on the junk time he had on Sunday night, but could the combo of Nagy HC and Lazor play caller work going forward?

 

I thought Lazor dialed up some good plays, some Mitch hit on, others he completely missed. Which begs the question, can Mitch grow with Lazor or is he just flat out too stupid?

 

I never thought playcalling was the problem really with Nagy. It's just a general offensive philosophy that doesn't really have a go-to, bread-and-butter type play or concept. And I judge that based on the fact that Bears can't even script points. They don't score consistently in the first half of games, even this week got their TD with seconds left in the half. They don't score at all in the 3rd quarter. First and third quarters are supposed to be when you script the first 10-15 plays designed to score points. In the last 1 2/3 seasons they've been abysmal in those scripted plays.

 

And I guess I'm not really concerned about the Mitch/Lazor combination. Best case scenario is Mitch is here 6 more games (5 regular season and if they win enough of them a 1-and-done playoff game). I don't think the Nagy/Lazor can work out. Still the same issue the last 2 games of no early points, nothing out of halftime.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

Yeah, I kinda feel that way too. I do buy that the McKaskey's love Pace, and the whole revamping of Halas Hall shows that they were in on Pace for the long haul. My first hangup is the lame duck contract situation. I do kinda feel like the decision is either fire or extend this offseason. Can't have a lame duck situation. That benefits nobody. The other is that GMs don't typically get to hire 3 coaches. Maybe there is some legitimacy to Fox being pushed on him and not counting against Pace, but I feel you have to get rid of Nagy if not Pace. Nagy's record is fine, but clearly not sustainable without an offense, and he was brought here to fix the offense. He was brought in to groom Trubisky, then got a handpicked QB that knew his system to show it wasn't him but the QB, and both have failed. I don't think you can bring in a new QB and assume he can put him in the best position at this point. While it may be unfair to Nagy that he was strapped to Mitch (especially if Pace is not), it kinda is what it has to be at this point.

 

how do you feel about Lazor's play calling? Granted, it could be hard to judge based on the junk time he had on Sunday night, but could the combo of Nagy HC and Lazor play caller work going forward?

 

I thought Lazor dialed up some good plays, some Mitch hit on, others he completely missed. Which begs the question, can Mitch grow with Lazor or is he just flat out too stupid?

 

I never thought playcalling was the problem really with Nagy. It's just a general offensive philosophy that doesn't really have a go-to, bread-and-butter type play or concept. And I judge that based on the fact that Bears can't even script points. They don't score consistently in the first half of games, even this week got their TD with seconds left in the half. They don't score at all in the 3rd quarter. First and third quarters are supposed to be when you script the first 10-15 plays designed to score points. In the last 1 2/3 seasons they've been abysmal in those scripted plays.

 

I've thought they can script as evident in the first series success they had the past few seasons. Its when Nagy tries to game-day adjust he gets too predictable- its the 3rd, 4th and 5th possessions when things would get bogged down

[jersey cubs fan]

then got a handpicked QB that knew his system to show it wasn't him but the QB, and both have failed..

I think it's a bit misleading to refer to Foles as a handpicked QB. The guy was on the verge of retirement before coming through as a backup and getting overpaid, then quickly dumped.

 

Foles was a quintessential hold the fort QB. The Bears were never going to win a bunch of games with Nick Foles as the QB. He was Mitch's babysitter. Nagy has never had a handpicked QB. That would come with his next draft pick, if he gets one.

[jersey cubs fan]

jersey, I dont know where you get your faith, but send me some please

 

I would say that Pace and Nagy are certainly better hires the Trestman and Emery, but I fear their issue is more then just QB. Pace drafted Mitch, if he had concerns why did he trade UP to get him? Why not just stand pat and take what comes to you? And I realize it was only one slot, but there is little to no evidence he was going to lose Mitch to some other mystery team other then the idea that SF was suggesting it iirc.

It's less faith than a belief that the McCaskeys want to emulate the stability of the Steelers. They have to be jealous of the stability of that head coaching position. 3 head coaches in 50 years. That's the kind of thing blue blood families can be proud of. Constant turnover and turmoil is the way of the nouveau riche like Snyder. They don't want to be like that.

This might be true, but doesn't necessarily mesh with the Lovie situation. Though maybe they have buyers remorse on that?

You mean firing him when they did? I think George felt obligated to make his mark on the team after being elevated to Chairman.

 

I'd bet George would have loved the chance to go back and keep Lovie through at least the Emery/Trestman years, as that was an obvious disaster. The turmoil that has highlighted the George years is one of the reasons why I think George would be more willing to give these guys a longer leash. No trust fund boy wants to be known as the one who couldn't even live up to Michael's legacy.