The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

[Bluescale]

There is still no logical explanation for picking up Hamels option if money is that tight.

 

There (arguably) is if they're genuinely concerned about the starting rotation.

 

Even if you're worried about the rotation, I have a hard time being convinced that Hamels is the solution at $20M. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm worried about repeat of 2017 John Lackey.

[Sammy Sofa]

There is still no logical explanation for picking up Hamels option if money is that tight.

 

There (arguably) is if they're genuinely concerned about the starting rotation.

 

Even if you're worried about the rotation, I have a hard time being convinced that Hamels is the solution at $20M. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm worried about repeat of 2017 John Lackey.

 

Oh, I completely agree; personally, I didn't want them to bring back Hamels, and I have a real fear he's going to mostly suck this season. I'm just saying I get why Epstein would effectively panic and go that route (because he kinda sucks more often than we'd like at targeting pitchers).

[Transmogrified Tiger]

They have to be thinking that Hamels is a near lock for 30 starts and 3+, maybe 4+ WAR. Otherwise they're in the category where a tactical buy-low addition gets you really close to Hamels production. To quote myself since literally nothing has happened since then:

 

I have a hard time understanding why you bring back Hamels if you're stifled financially. If you successfully bring in Harper(and it's easy to do at the 246 mark without Hamels' contract), then the remaining spots on the roster needing filled(pre-Hamels) are *prime candidates* for the type of outside the box thinking that you'd need for upgrading on the cheap. 5th/6th starter, bullpen arms, backup C, an infielder to play SS, etc. I mean, it's cherry picking, but Anibal Sanchez, Jeremy Hellickson, and old pal Trevor Cahill were league average starters for a combined 4 million and change. Erik Kratz was a minor league signing last offseason, outside of Cozart getting signed to play 3B no SS made 3 million in free agency last year, and we all know how good relievers come and go like the wind regardless of their origin. Harper's productivity gives you the most cost certainty if you're dealing with a limited budget, and he also more easily enables you to make a trade of Happ/Almora too, unlike if you're taking a gamble on Timmy Waiverclaim where you'd like the depth.

[Cubswin11]

There is still no logical explanation for picking up Hamels option if money is that tight.

The SP needs reasoning has already been laid out and I agree with it. But picking up Hamels option also let us dump $7 million with trading Smyly (the Rangers were on the hook for the buyout of Hamels option for $5-7 mil). I really look at that as it’s own deal and Hamels only costing $13 million. We couldn’t have just dumped Smyly’s $7 mil this year for nothing, imo, had we not excercised Hamels option it would have cost prospects or something to move Smyly. So we still would’ve been stuck with his $7 million + however many millions it would’ve cost for a SP FA and in the end we probably end up spending around $20 million for Smyly + FA starter (I doubt we’d go in to the year with Smyly/Monty as the 5/6 starters). Lance Lynn got $10 mil a year, Harvey got $11 million, etc.

[Brian]

Season starts today, this is the pen... fun.

 

 

1. Tyler Chatwood

2. Steve Cishek

3. Brian Duensing

4. Carl Edwards Jr.

5. Brandon Kintzler

6. Mike Montgomery

7. Pedro Strop

 

edit - Kyle Ryan got a major league deal so maybe him too

[UMFan83]

There is still no logical explanation for picking up Hamels option if money is that tight.

 

And even on the small chance that it is, you can still fix that! if the Cubs felt it was incredibly important to pick up the Hamels option at that point, that means they thought they were getting a good deal, and he'd be worth more on the open market. That means he still is. Yes, he can block trades to 20 teams, but you know the 10 teams that are options would be contenders. If that doesn't work, Hamels and Quintana are projected to be basically identical pitchers next year. Quintana definitely has value. Go save yourself that money.

 

I can understand that the Ricketts may be frustrated based on the last couple years. The plan was waves of homegrown talent. The team won 97 games in 2015, and then went out and signed the most expensive hitter on the market. Last year, we signed the most expensive pitcher on the market. Now they're asking to sign the biggest contract of all time. Neither has worked out so far, and it doesn't look great going forward. It's a legit criticism. But it shouldn't keep them from Bryce. Or from trusting Theo.

 

The thing that eats at me is that I was thinking/hoping we'd have rebuilt at least some portion of our farm system by now. Maybe I'm asking too much for a team thats in the 5th year of a 'win now' cycle but I'm not expecting 2014 levels of talent. If we really are cash strapped, also having a broke farm system is a death blow.

[HawkeTrackler]

Season starts today, this is the pen... fun.

 

 

1. Tyler Chatwood

2. Steve Cishek

3. Brian Duensing

4. Carl Edwards Jr.

5. Brandon Kintzler

6. Mike Montgomery

7. Pedro Strop

 

edit - Kyle Ryan got a major league deal so maybe him too

 

yikes

[Cubswin11]

Season starts today, this is the pen... fun.

 

 

1. Tyler Chatwood

2. Steve Cishek

3. Brian Duensing

4. Carl Edwards Jr.

5. Brandon Kintzler

6. Mike Montgomery

7. Pedro Strop

 

edit - Kyle Ryan got a major league deal so maybe him too

I’d be pretty shocked if Duensing is on the opening day roster. Not that I’m any more confident in them but I bet his spot is the Iowa shuttle spot for Webster, Wick, Mekkes, Maples, Rosario, Ryan, etc. But yes, we need to add at least 1 real option there yet.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Season starts today, this is the pen... fun.

 

 

1. Tyler Chatwood

2. Steve Cishek

3. Brian Duensing

4. Carl Edwards Jr.

5. Brandon Kintzler

6. Mike Montgomery

7. Pedro Strop

 

edit - Kyle Ryan got a major league deal so maybe him too

 

4 very good relievers, 2 dead weights and the hope that Chatwood's brain isn't broken anymore, with Morrow on his way back. I want one more reliever personally, but unless someone else goes down(looking at you Carl) I think it's fine.

[Cubswin11]

There is still no logical explanation for picking up Hamels option if money is that tight.

 

And even on the small chance that it is, you can still fix that! if the Cubs felt it was incredibly important to pick up the Hamels option at that point, that means they thought they were getting a good deal, and he'd be worth more on the open market. That means he still is. Yes, he can block trades to 20 teams, but you know the 10 teams that are options would be contenders. If that doesn't work, Hamels and Quintana are projected to be basically identical pitchers next year. Quintana definitely has value. Go save yourself that money.

 

I can understand that the Ricketts may be frustrated based on the last couple years. The plan was waves of homegrown talent. The team won 97 games in 2015, and then went out and signed the most expensive hitter on the market. Last year, we signed the most expensive pitcher on the market. Now they're asking to sign the biggest contract of all time. Neither has worked out so far, and it doesn't look great going forward. It's a legit criticism. But it shouldn't keep them from Bryce. Or from trusting Theo.

 

The thing that eats at me is that I was thinking/hoping we'd have rebuilt at least some portion of our farm system by now. Maybe I'm asking too much for a team thats in the 5th year of a 'win now' cycle but I'm not expecting 2014 levels of talent. If we really are cash strapped, also having a broke farm system is a death blow.

Adbert going down last year really sucked, yeah we probably should have a little more depth and options at this point even given the cycle but if he doesn’t get hurt he definitely gets a chance to make some starts with Yu and Chatwood getting hurt/sucking and if he looks good maybe we don’t do Hamels option this year or we feel good about him in a relief role or something.

[Sammy Sofa]

Season starts today, this is the pen... fun.

 

 

1. Tyler Chatwood

2. Steve Cishek

3. Brian Duensing

4. Carl Edwards Jr.

5. Brandon Kintzler

6. Mike Montgomery

7. Pedro Strop

 

edit - Kyle Ryan got a major league deal so maybe him too

 

4 very good relievers, 2 dead weights and the hope that Chatwood's brain isn't broken anymore, with Morrow on his way back. I want one more reliever personally, but unless someone else goes down(looking at you Carl) I think it's fine.

 

[Narrator]It wasn't.[/Narrator]

[Hairyducked Idiot]

NL Central standings, August 2019. Camera scrolls past Cardinals and DNLCCVB before stopping on the Cubs.

 

*record scratch*

 

Yeah, that’s me. You’re probably wondering how I ended up in this situation. It all started with a couple of pitchers.

[Cubswin11]

NL Central standings, August 2019. Camera scrolls past Cardinals and DNLCCVB before stopping on the Cubs.

 

*record scratch*

 

Yeah, that’s me. You’re probably wondering how I ended up in this situation. It all started with a couple of pitchers.

God damn it, that’s some mighty fine doom bonnering

 

[Bear Cub]

Free agent relief pitchers still available:

Greg Holland

Cody Allen

Adam Ottavino

Sergio Romo

Brad Brach

Justin Wilson

Alex Wilson

Hunter Strickland

A.J. Ramos

Jake Diekman

Sam Howard

 

Can we afford any of these guys? Probably not.

[champaignchris]

Free agent relief pitchers still available:

Greg Holland

Cody Allen

Adam Ottavino

Sergio Romo

Brad Brach

Justin Wilson

Alex Wilson

Hunter Strickland

A.J. Ramos

Jake Diekman

Sam Howard

 

Can we afford any of these guys? Probably not.

 

Did I miss Craig Kimbrell signing? Or are we just assuming there’s no possible way?

[imb]

Did I miss Craig Kimbrell signing? Or are we just assuming there’s no possible way?

 

The shunning/dismissal of Kimbrel as a very legit upgrade and possibility is some of that enabling nonsense I can't stand. If we're OK with ownership not spending on the best of the best of the best (sir!) in areas of need then duuuuh...

 

signing craig kimbrel to a 5 year deal or whatever is one of your top 5 worst ideas

[Bear Cub]

Why the hell do the Yankees have money to spend and we dont?

[KingCubsFan]

Why the hell do the Yankees have money to spend and we dont?

If you think the Cubs are cheap, I suggest you look at the Yankees. They could easily sign both Harper and Machado and instead they’re choosing LeMahieu.

[Backtobanks]

Why the hell do the Yankees have money to spend and we dont?

If you think the Cubs are cheap, I suggest you look at the Yankees. They could easily sign both Harper and Machado and instead they’re choosing LeMahieu.

 

Don't speak too soon, they may end up with at least one of them anyhow.

[Bertz]

I just realized that Marwin Gonzalez is still a FA, which totally caught be by surprise. Man he really fits this roster well. He gives us back that flexibility that we're starting to lose with Zobrist getting older and Baez hopefully being tasked more with regular everyday shortstop duties. And he lets us banish Russell to the Phantom Zone.

 

I understand that he's probably not an option if we're going after Bryce, but if we're not then what the hell? A "we're poor" offseason is really not that hard to pull off:

 

- Use prospects to send Chatwood and Duensing away.

Cut Russell. Boom, there's $18m to play with

- Sign Gonzalez to something approximating the Ben Zobrist contract

- Use whatever money you still have available on relief help. Will Smith would be my ideal, and would you look at that him plus Gonzalez is almost exactlt that $18m we just saved

 

This is the team

 

2b - Gonzalez

1b - Rizzo

SS - Baez

3b - Bryant

LF - Schwarber

C - Contreras

RF - Heyward

CF - Happ

 

BN - Zobrist, Almora, Descalso, Caratini

SP - Yu, Cole, Kyle, Q, Jon

RP - Morrow, Smith, Strop, Cishek, Carl, Monty, Kintzler, Iowa Shuttle

 

That team is awesome. It's not the majestic dong party that Bryce would lead to, but it's really strong from top to bottom, with plenty of depth to handle a few injuries or disappointments (Looking at at you Happ and Almora). This is what causes me to think we're still trying for Bryce. There's a good argument that waiting out the relief market is the smart way to augment the bullpen on a budget. But the rest of the market? If we're not players in the Bryce sweepstakes, what is the incentive to not go ahead and finish building the rest of the team? Unless time doesn't matter because our offseason is going to be literally just Descalso and some $4m reliever? Which....man that's a dark offseason.

[Backtobanks]

I just realized that Marwin Gonzalez is still a FA, which totally caught be by surprise. Man he really fits this roster well. He gives us back that flexibility that we're starting to lose with Zobrist getting older and Baez hopefully being tasked more with regular everyday shortstop duties. And he lets us banish Russell to the Phantom Zone.

 

I understand that he's probably not an option if we're going after Bryce, but if we're not then what the hell? A "we're poor" offseason is really not that hard to pull off:

 

- Use prospects to send Chatwood and Duensing away.

Cut Russell. Boom, there's $18m to play with

- Sign Gonzalez to something approximating the Ben Zobrist contract

- Use whatever money you still have available on relief help. Will Smith would be my ideal, and would you look at that him plus Gonzalez is almost exactlt that $18m we just saved

 

This is the team

 

2b - Gonzalez

1b - Rizzo

SS - Baez

3b - Bryant

LF - Schwarber

C - Contreras

RF - Heyward

CF - Happ

 

BN - Zobrist, Almora, Descalso, Caratini

SP - Yu, Cole, Kyle, Q, Jon

RP - Morrow, Smith, Strop, Cishek, Carl, Monty, Kintzler, Iowa Shuttle

 

That team is awesome. It's not the majestic dong party that Bryce would lead to, but it's really strong from top to bottom, with plenty of depth to handle a few injuries or disappointments (Looking at at you Happ and Almora). This is what causes me to think we're still trying for Bryce. There's a good argument that waiting out the relief market is the smart way to augment the bullpen on a budget. But the rest of the market? If we're not players in the Bryce sweepstakes, what is the incentive to not go ahead and finish building the rest of the team? Unless time doesn't matter because our offseason is going to be literally just Descalso and some $4m reliever? Which....man that's a dark offseason.

 

I'm not sure all of Chatwood's salary would disappear because it's unlikely somebody is going to pick it all up. That's why everybody was suggesting bad contract trades earlier. As for Russell, we gave him a new contract, so we're obligated to pay it. I agree Gonzalez would be a good fit if PTR would open his wallet.

[Bertz]

I just realized that Marwin Gonzalez is still a FA, which totally caught be by surprise. Man he really fits this roster well. He gives us back that flexibility that we're starting to lose with Zobrist getting older and Baez hopefully being tasked more with regular everyday shortstop duties. And he lets us banish Russell to the Phantom Zone.

 

I understand that he's probably not an option if we're going after Bryce, but if we're not then what the hell? A "we're poor" offseason is really not that hard to pull off:

 

- Use prospects to send Chatwood and Duensing away.

Cut Russell. Boom, there's $18m to play with

- Sign Gonzalez to something approximating the Ben Zobrist contract

- Use whatever money you still have available on relief help. Will Smith would be my ideal, and would you look at that him plus Gonzalez is almost exactlt that $18m we just saved

 

This is the team

 

2b - Gonzalez

1b - Rizzo

SS - Baez

3b - Bryant

LF - Schwarber

C - Contreras

RF - Heyward

CF - Happ

 

BN - Zobrist, Almora, Descalso, Caratini

SP - Yu, Cole, Kyle, Q, Jon

RP - Morrow, Smith, Strop, Cishek, Carl, Monty, Kintzler, Iowa Shuttle

 

That team is awesome. It's not the majestic dong party that Bryce would lead to, but it's really strong from top to bottom, with plenty of depth to handle a few injuries or disappointments (Looking at at you Happ and Almora). This is what causes me to think we're still trying for Bryce. There's a good argument that waiting out the relief market is the smart way to augment the bullpen on a budget. But the rest of the market? If we're not players in the Bryce sweepstakes, what is the incentive to not go ahead and finish building the rest of the team? Unless time doesn't matter because our offseason is going to be literally just Descalso and some $4m reliever? Which....man that's a dark offseason.

 

I'm not sure all of Chatwood's salary would disappear because it's unlikely somebody is going to pick it all up. That's why everybody was suggesting bad contract trades earlier. As for Russell, we gave him a new contract, so we're obligated to pay it. I agree Gonzalez would be a good fit if PTR would open his wallet.

 

Teams are rational: if you are willing to give up $20m worth of prospects you can make $20m worth of dead money disappear. Chatwood would not be hard to dump, it's not like he's Heyward with $100m left on his deal.

 

For Russell, you can cut players on non guaranteed contracts (e.g. arbitration eligible guys) and only pay 1/6th of their salary. The only catch is you have to do it by a certain date, I don't remember it off hand but it's in the middle of March. We did this with Justin Grimm last year.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Just a casual $20m worth of prospects. Just got that hanging around myrtle beach* like loose change in the couch

 

* - (i have no idea where are lower affiliates are these days, prospect nerds don’t @ me)

[Derwood]

It's maddening how many Cubs fans (on other sites) still think that a) leadoff hitter is a "thing", b) that it's a major need, and c) that not having one is the reason the Cubs didn't go far last year.

 

2018 leadoff hitting statistics are basically identical to 2016 numbers. Of all the things we can point to about how horrendously the 2018 offense performed, the person who happened to be penciled first in the batting order wasn't one of them

[Sammy Sofa]

Just clobber them with the dong of the 2018 Cubs' lack of dongs.