Week 8 - Single digit passing attempts team vs. Old Man McGee

[Thrilho]

One thing you can't overlook when you talk about the offense is Trubisky. One path a GM could have taken was to keep Cutler, who would now probably be hobbling around the Bears sideline. Then a stop gap back up or maybe some 2-4 round QB, like Kizer or the twice cut already Brad Kaaya.

He could have kept Cutler and drafted Trubisky.

True, for the success of year's team it looks like Cutler would've been much better than Glennon. And then he got hurt which would've provided an easy in for Trubisky. I just don't know 1. how Cutler's presence would have impacted Trubisky and 2. If the Bears could've smoke screened the league adequately with Cutler as their top QB.

 

Maybe that second one isn't important, maybe it would've been better if they'd stayed where they were, kept Cutler and gotten Watson. But I liked the idea of getting Trubisky and if the Glennon thing was part of what Pace thought he had to do then I'm all for taking the short term pain of that turnover machine derailing the 2017 season to get the QB you want long term.

 

If that wasn't a concern then you've only really got the lockerroom Cutty issue which would have worked itself out when he got injured. So maybe that wouldn't have been a big deal. If the smokescreen part wasn't a thing then I could see this Glennon experiment as a bit of a blunder. Either way though, long term I think both sides of ball are in good shape.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Thrilho

[minnesotacubsfan]

One thing you can't overlook when you talk about the offense is Trubisky. One path a GM could have taken was to keep Cutler, who would now probably be hobbling around the Bears sideline. Then a stop gap back up or maybe some 2-4 round QB, like Kizer or the twice cut already Brad Kaaya.

He could have kept Cutler and drafted Trubisky.

 

Yes. But even Cutty couldn’t have done much with this group of hooligan receivers and play calling. This intoxicating mix is deadly for an offense

[davell]

I don't see reason to give Pace credit on Trubisky yet. If he develops, then absolutely. But, as of now, hes a ways from that and its fair to wonder if we failed to get the best QB in the draft, despite being the first team to draft one.

[Thrilho]

I don't see reason to give Pace credit on Trubisky yet. If he develops, then absolutely. But, as of now, hes a ways from that and its fair to wonder if we failed to get the best QB in the draft, despite being the first team to draft one.

Others don't have to give him credit yet but I will. People didn't believe in him in November, at the draft and many now. I wanted Trubisky before the draft, I was happy they moved up for him and I'm happy they have him now over Watson. So in my world, Pace is a winner. If you're going to criticize or give credit you go by your own evaluation. I'm a believer in Trubisky, so I give Pace full credit for getting him.

 

But whether you got him or Watson, show me how many guys in this board and in general wanted something like an Adams/Thomas/Allen/trade down coupled with a Kizer, Peterman, whoever dropped type in the second? I think you've got to give him credit for just taking a QB who by whatever evaluation looks like he will eventually be pretty good.

[David]

Think about how incredibly awful and talent devoid our defense was when Pace, Fox and Fangio took over and where it is now.

 

Yeah I was definitely not expecting the defensive turn around to be this fast, hopefully they don't go Angelo and wait till these guys are all past their prime to get an offense.

I wouldn't call 3 years in, fast. Especially when they haven't improved the offense at all in that time. 3 drafts and 3 free agent seasons is plenty of time to make a unit above average.

 

eh...2 actual seasons (and it all coming together for the defense in the 3rd) doesn't seem like long for a complete overhaul when the key pieces are almost all new and young.

 

but yes the state of the offense leaves a lot to be desired. like thril says, though, we have the RBs, an at least competent line and maybe the QB. it might be as simple as add some WRs and go next year.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't see reason to give Pace credit on Trubisky yet. If he develops, then absolutely. But, as of now, hes a ways from that and its fair to wonder if we failed to get the best QB in the draft, despite being the first team to draft one.

Others don't have to give him credit yet but I will. People didn't believe in him in November, at the draft and many now. I wanted Trubisky before the draft, I was happy they moved up for him and I'm happy they have him now over Watson. So in my world, Pace is a winner. If you're going to criticize or give credit you go by your own evaluation. I'm a believer in Trubisky, so I give Pace full credit for getting him.

 

But whether you got him or Watson, show me how many guys in this board and in general wanted something like an Adams/Thomas/Allen/trade down coupled with a Kizer, Peterman, whoever dropped type in the second? I think you've got to give him credit for just taking a QB who by whatever evaluation looks like he will eventually be pretty good.

I think it's crazy to just "give him credit" for taking a QB.

 

He put together 2 horrible teams and 3 years in the team still has huge flaws. I'm not giving him credit until this team starts actually winning games.

[David]

I don't see reason to give Pace credit on Trubisky yet. If he develops, then absolutely. But, as of now, hes a ways from that and its fair to wonder if we failed to get the best QB in the draft, despite being the first team to draft one.

 

it is fair to wonder that, but i still don't expect this watson thing to last. he's made a lot of dangerous throws that he's gotten lucky with, hasn't faced very good pass defenses, and, at least in the kc game, piled up numbers in garbage time.

 

/watson rant

 

i'm fully ready to look like an idiot on this but i'm not giving up yet.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

eh...2 actual seasons

 

NO NO NO NO NO

 

He's had 3 offseasons to build this team, and people are getting giddy over a team that managed to be 3-4 without scoring any points.

 

It has not been in any way shape or form, fast.

[David]

meredith could've been a really nice and young WR2 after adding #1 next offseason. that's a really unfortunate injury both for this year and the mid-long term. hope he can recover fully.

 

reminds me a little of what happened with marcus robinson...hope it ends up better.

[David]

 

eh...2 actual seasons

 

NO NO NO NO NO

 

 

yes yes yes

 

you've jumped the shark when you're actually trying to debate an objective fact like this. i'm saying the defense was bad to meh for 2 years and now is good in the 3rd. and you're getting all worked up over i have no idea what.

He's had 3 offseasons to build this team, and people are getting giddy over a team that managed to be 3-4 without scoring any points.

 

It has not been in any way shape or form, fast

 

please show where i disputed any of this

[davell]

I don't see why you want to give credit for anything until the guy is developed. A huge part of this is having the coaching and the necessary pieces in place that will help him on the field.

 

I admit I was wrong on his talent level. But, calling this a success, is way, way premature. The play calling has been rancid and the group of receivers he's throwing to has been just as bad.

[BigbadB]

They did turn one of the absolute worst defenses into a really good defense in pretty short order, while also converting the defensive scheme entirely, which created many more necessary personnel changes. What's happening with the offense has been frustrating, but I see talent at several positions that gives hope going forward. And they should have plenty of money to spend in the offseason to make improvements.

[Thrilho]

I don't see why you want to give credit for anything until the guy is developed. A huge part of this is having the coaching and the necessary pieces in place that will help him on the field.

 

I admit I was wrong on his talent level. But, calling this a success, is way, way premature. The play calling has been rancid and the group of receivers he's throwing to has been just as bad.

You're a follower of the minor leagues. You've got prospects you like that haven't proven anything at the major league level. When the Cubs were still losing but had some of these guys in the minors were you giving the FO credit?

 

NFL isn't the exact same thing but I see prospects I like, that I have faith in, so I'm evaluate Pace as having done a good job. My grade on Trubisky is still that he's going to be awesome. If your grade is "incomplete" then you evaluate Pace differently. If people want to give Pace an "incomplete pending the performance of the QB" I'm ok. But any evaluation of what he's done with the offense starts with the QB he selected.

 

So I just don't see how you give a negative grade on the GM's building of the offense while giving an incomplete grade on the QB, when young QB is such a big part of the offensive equation. The overall grade should incomplete or you should give the pick/QB a grade based on what we know already and factor that grade into your evaluation of Pace.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I'm not giving him credit until this team starts actually winning games.

 

 

Ummm

[David]

I'm not giving him credit until this team starts actually winning games.

 

 

Ummm

 

They're 3-4.

[David]

I don't see reason to give Pace credit on Trubisky yet. If he develops, then absolutely. But, as of now, hes a ways from that and its fair to wonder if we failed to get the best QB in the draft, despite being the first team to draft one.

 

it is fair to wonder that, but i still don't expect this watson thing to last. he's made a lot of dangerous throws that he's gotten lucky with, hasn't faced very good pass defenses, and, at least in the kc game, piled up numbers in garbage time.

 

/watson rant

 

i'm fully ready to look like an idiot on this but i'm not giving up yet.

 

i should probably add that i'm heavily biased w/watson bc i tend to always root against winnability guys, especially when it's people touting college winnability (i.e. the tebow supporters early on).

 

if people say "he just knows how to win" about a player, i probably (unfairly) don't like that player

 

but watson has played legitimately well so far.

[davell]

I was a complete supporter of Theo's rebuild. I liked the draft picks, the trades, basically everything he did.

 

But, I wasn't going to call things a successful midway thru the 2014 season, which seems about where this is, with Pace's rebuild.

 

I was excited, but in no way, shape, or form could I have called it a success at that point. Credit comes when things actually work.

 

I do think Trubisky has talent. At least Pace got that part right. But, if he doesn't put him in a true chance to succeed, then its still a failure in the long run. So, its an incomplete until we see how the rest of the puzzle gets filled in. Which honestly, isn't bad. At least its better than drafting a kid that looks horrible already.

[WrigleyField 22]

My assessment of Pace is based on W-L at this point. If they end up around .500, it's probably a little behind where I'd had optimistically hoped they'd be, but still a passing grade. If they're 6-10, he'll have basically just been stagnant for 3 years. Yea you can point to a young core, including a young QB and claim it's 6-10 with a brighter future than 3 years ago but if those young guys aren't producing wins, you're doing something else critically wrong that is a big issue.

[Thrilho]

I don't see reason to give Pace credit on Trubisky yet. If he develops, then absolutely. But, as of now, hes a ways from that and its fair to wonder if we failed to get the best QB in the draft, despite being the first team to draft one.

 

it is fair to wonder that, but i still don't expect this watson thing to last. he's made a lot of dangerous throws that he's gotten lucky with, hasn't faced very good pass defenses, and, at least in the kc game, piled up numbers in garbage time.

 

/watson rant

 

i'm fully ready to look like an idiot on this but i'm not giving up yet.

 

i should probably add that i'm heavily biased w/watson bc i tend to always root against winnability guys, especially when it's people touting college winnability (i.e. the tebow supporters early on).

 

if people say "he just knows how to win" about a player, i probably (unfairly) don't like that player

 

but watson has played legitimately well so far.

Just to be on record, I did like Watson enough that I wanted him over any defensive player if Trubisky was gone. Just liked Trubisky better, and think there's much less risk and higher upside with him. Although I wanted him I wasn't sure he was a championship level QB. That's where I may have been wrong, or I may have been wrong to want him at all. I'll be pulling for him either way.

[David]

My assessment of Pace is based on W-L at this point. If they end up around .500, it's probably a little behind where I'd had optimistically hoped they'd be, but still a passing grade. If they're 6-10, he'll have basically just been stagnant for 3 years. Yea you can point to a young core, including a young QB and claim it's 6-10 with a brighter future than 3 years ago but if those young guys aren't producing wins, you're doing something else critically wrong that is a big issue.

 

eh, if they're 6-10 but the defense continues to play very well and trubisky plays competently with these shitty receivers/gameplans, i'll be pretty damn optimistic going into next year with what should be a new offensive minded coaching staff and a lot of cap space to fill in holes.

 

i get that it'd be a little difficult for those things to be true and to still finish 3-6 against this schedule, but with how we tend to draw team into close slop fests, could easily see it.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I'm not giving him credit until this team starts actually winning games.

 

 

Ummm

 

They're 3-4.

 

 

Not long ago they were 1-4. Yea, i know, sample size, but in the nfl the season can switch quickly

[Thrilho]

I was a complete supporter of Theo's rebuild. I liked the draft picks, the trades, basically everything he did.

 

But, I wasn't going to call things a successful midway thru the 2014 season, which seems about where this is, with Pace's rebuild.

 

I was excited, but in no way, shape, or form could I have called it a success at that point. Credit comes when things actually work.

 

I do think Trubisky has talent. At least Pace got that part right. But, if he doesn't put him in a true chance to succeed, then its still a failure in the long run. So, its an incomplete until we see how the rest of the puzzle gets filled in. Which honestly, isn't bad. At least its better than drafting a kid that looks horrible already.

I'm not spiking the football saying it's a success already. I jumped in on a comment saying that Pace hasn't done well stocking the offense.

 

If someone said to you in mid 2014 that the Theo hasn't done a good job stocking the team did you just say "hey it's incomplete, who knows what will happen." Or did you say "there are a lot of guys I like and they're going to be good once these guys come up and hit their stride?"

 

I'm not looking at the results so far and saying Pace demands credit for it but I do think Pace has gotten the pieces. So to me, it seems like a pick a lane situation. Do you think that these guys are going to pan out or not? If not then by all means hammer Pace. But if you're a wait and see type then give Pace a wait and see grade rather than being critical.

 

Also I bet one bajillion internet dollars that they don't go 3-6 down the stretch. I'd be evaluating the season right now with the thought that 7-9 the floor but most likely is .500 or greater.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Thrilho

[David]

. Edited October 24, 2017 by David

[David]

i was pretty damn excited in late 2014.

 

it's crazy how different it started to feel with the call ups (alcantara, baez, hendricks, jorge), rizzo turning it around, castro turning it around, and a little ironic that the guy who really kicked that into high gear for me wound up being a complete nothing (soler).

[Guest]

I don't see reason to give Pace credit on Trubisky yet. If he develops, then absolutely. But, as of now, hes a ways from that and its fair to wonder if we failed to get the best QB in the draft, despite being the first team to draft one.

 

it is fair to wonder that, but i still don't expect this watson thing to last. he's made a lot of dangerous throws that he's gotten lucky with, hasn't faced very good pass defenses, and, at least in the kc game, piled up numbers in garbage time.

 

/watson rant

 

i'm fully ready to look like an idiot on this but i'm not giving up yet.

 

i should probably add that i'm heavily biased w/watson bc i tend to always root against winnability guys, especially when it's people touting college winnability (i.e. the tebow supporters early on).

 

if people say "he just knows how to win" about a player, i probably (unfairly) don't like that player

 

but watson has played legitimately well so far.

 

yeah, Watson's played well because his head coach is a offensive genius/QB guru and has changed the offense to fit his athletic college QB. I'm still not convinced he'll do well long-term, but maybe it will just be an indefinite arrangement that no one can figure out how to stop, who knows?

 

Trubisky is still the guy with the highest aptitude for reading defenses, making accurate throws, and being able to escape danger while playing in a legitimate offense, which we don't have.