Week 2 Eagles (1-0) @ Bears (0-1), MNF 7:30 ESPN/780

[jersey cubs fan]

Failed implies such permanence though. They're merely falling.

 

Emery had 3 years and Trestman had 2 and it was the right move to fire them.

 

Without Cutler and Alshon, what would you expect from this team next year?

Emery and Trestman were clearly never qualified for their respective jobs. Emery was a S&C coach for 50 years at a nonentity school. Trestman was in Canada. Pace at least has the resume of somebody who can do his job and does not appear to be doing as poorly as Emery did. There's at least a reason to consider keeping him around and part of that is that Emery did such a terrible job. I think Pace was hired with the knowledge and understanding that he had a lot of work to do, his focus would be on the future but he'd give it the old college try in the interim while they still had Cutler. That was the reason for Fox. Maybe squeak out a 10 win season somewhere in the first two seasons but he's not going to be held accountable for a disaster.

 

Also I'm not so sure Cutler is gone after this year. His cap hit is $16m which is more than reasonable for a veteran QB, which are typically running in the 18m-22m range right now.

[WrigleyField 22]

Failed implies such permanence though. They're merely falling.

 

Emery had 3 years and Trestman had 2 and it was the right move to fire them.

 

Without Cutler and Alshon, what would you expect from this team next year?

Emery and Trestman were clearly never qualified for their respective jobs. Emery was a S&C coach for 50 years at a nonentity school. Trestman was in Canada. Pace at least has the resume of somebody who can do his job and does not appear to be doing as poorly as Emery did. There's at least a reason to consider keeping him around and part of that is that Emery did such a terrible job. I think Pace was hired with the knowledge and understanding that he had a lot of work to do, his focus would be on the future but he'd give it the old college try in the interim while they still had Cutler. That was the reason for Fox. Maybe squeak out a 10 win season somewhere in the first two seasons but he's not going to be held accountable for a disaster.

 

Also I'm not so sure Cutler is gone after this year. His cap hit is $16m which is more than reasonable for a veteran QB, which are typically running in the 18m-22m range right now.

I wouldn't rush Cutler out the door or anything, but if he has a simillar season as last he could actually be a good trade chip, assuming you've found a player you think may be the QB of the future.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

No one is giving you meaningful trade value for the privilege of welcoming the Jay Cutler media show into their team. Fair or not he is a coach killer

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I think i found the problem

 

http://i.imgur.com/tWOLeky.jpg

[WrigleyField 22]

No one is giving you meaningful trade value for the privilege of welcoming the Jay Cutler media show into their team. Fair or not he is a coach killer

I feel like Jay as a "media show" was much bigger a few years ago. Entering into what is now a market value deal (below market if you count guaranteed money) and without the franchise package, it wouldn't be a big deal. Going on the "Jay of last year" qualifier, did he blow up the news feed at all?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Because people are used to him with the Bears. Trade him and it starts all over again. "Why did you bring in this bad attitude loser who can't win? Do you feel like every single thing that goes wrong from here on out can be attributed to that, and thus to you? How much do all his teammates hate him already. Is it sooooo much? I'm just gonna put down that you said soooooo much."

 

If you are trading Jay Cutler you are asking someone to take him off your hands, not making demands.

[jersey cubs fan]

No one is giving you meaningful trade value for the privilege of welcoming the Jay Cutler media show into their team. Fair or not he is a coach killer

I feel like Jay as a "media show" was much bigger a few years ago. Entering into what is now a market value deal (below market if you count guaranteed money) and without the franchise package, it wouldn't be a big deal. Going on the "Jay of last year" qualifier, did he blow up the news feed at all?

Nobody is worried about the media aspect, they won't be trading much for an old banged up qb making $16m. Over half the teams have guys making more already. The shitty teams will draft their own. This isn't Sam Bradford, who was 6 years younger and half the cost. You need to find a unique situation to be able to trade him, good teams just missing a qb aren't that common.

[WrigleyField 22]

Well I definitely wasn't thinking of a Bradford return.

 

Eta - as far as cost I believe they could still eat salary as well if that made any marginal difference. Still not some amazing "make demands" negotiating position, but I don't think they'd have to just dump him.

[Guest]

Because people are used to him with the Bears. Trade him and it starts all over again. "Why did you bring in this bad attitude loser who can't win? Do you feel like every single thing that goes wrong from here on out can be attributed to that, and thus to you? How much do all his teammates hate him already. Is it sooooo much? I'm just gonna put down that you said soooooo much."

 

If you are trading Jay Cutler you are asking someone to take him off your hands, not making demands.

 

Not if you're trading him to someone out there in the vast desolation of the Great QB Wilderness.

[Sammy Sofa]

Because people are used to him with the Bears. Trade him and it starts all over again. "Why did you bring in this bad attitude loser who can't win? Do you feel like every single thing that goes wrong from here on out can be attributed to that, and thus to you? How much do all his teammates hate him already. Is it sooooo much? I'm just gonna put down that you said soooooo much."

 

If you are trading Jay Cutler you are asking someone to take him off your hands, not making demands.

 

Not if you're trading him to someone out there in the vast desolation of the Great QB Wilderness.

 

The Bears' miserable home for the foreseeable future.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Because people are used to him with the Bears. Trade him and it starts all over again. "Why did you bring in this bad attitude loser who can't win? Do you feel like every single thing that goes wrong from here on out can be attributed to that, and thus to you? How much do all his teammates hate him already. Is it sooooo much? I'm just gonna put down that you said soooooo much."

 

If you are trading Jay Cutler you are asking someone to take him off your hands, not making demands.

 

Not if you're trading him to someone out there in the vast desolation of the Great QB Wilderness.

 

Even then. Those teams aren't going to give you a pick for the privilege of being the worst team not technically in the wilderness.

[USSoccer]

The 4th round and conditional 5th round pick you'd get at best for Jay isn't worth actually trading Jay.

[jumbo]

No, I don't really think it was bad luck. And I don't really agree that the problem is a lack of organization philosophy. It seems fairly obvious they were going for a younger, faster defense and counting on a solid run game with the occasional deep threat, a standard play not to lose mentality.

 

the problem is talent at key positions. The offensive tackles suck, the defense cannot rush the passer.

 

Pace, whose history is in scouting guys already in the NFL, has not been a good drafter, and frankly I have no reason to believe he was capable of making a better hire than Fox. He looked for stability.

If there is one encouranging thing about Pace's drafting, its been his picks outside the first round, as well as UDFAs. But you can't swing and miss on multiple top ten picks. Not that its too late for them to turn it around, but eaely returns are not promising, and there was plenty or criticism at the time so its not just 20/20 second guessing.

 

Regarding his coaching pick. Yea, he went safe.

 

Pro personnel? He did a good job at his two ILB pickups. Outside of that... pretty meh over both years.

 

Isn't that basically the exact same flaw as Angelo? Good with late round picks, terrible with high picks.

 

My memory of Angelo was that he would zero in on a player, then during his media sessions tell people that they had intelligence that the player would be gone before their next pick, so they pulled the trigger to get the guy they wanted. I'm sure other FO's picked up on this and gamed him for years, laughing at him taking players 1-2 rounds early (or at all in some cases).

[Guest]

Floyd and White have each played 2 games for the Bears. Let's not declare them busts yet.

 

The real culprit behind the lack of relative success has been the absolutely atrocious play calling. Las3t year, the bears were in every game because Gase called a great game and designed excellent gameplans.

[jersey cubs fan]

Floyd and White have each played 2 games for the Bears. Let's not declare them busts yet.

 

The real culprit behind the lack of relative success has been the absolutely atrocious play calling. Las3t year, the bears were in every game because Gase called a great game and designed excellent gameplans.

Oh come on.

 

Play calling gets far more attention than it deserves. The Bears had a much better RB last year who was a big part of passing game and a much better tight end combination than the garbage they have now. There's very little skill position talent on this team. The offense is a hope Alshon gets a jump ball situation. The supposedly tough running block has been garbage, the RB does nothing and Kevin White apparently never stepped foot in a film room in 2 years as a professional.

 

The problem is a talent issue first and foremost. It doesn't help that the OC is nothing special, but it's not like last year's offense was any good. They were one of the worst passing teams in the league but with the ability to run. Now they aren't any better through the air and arguably worse, but can't run.

[Guest]

They were running play action out of formations they hadn't even run out of yet in the game on monday. The third down playcalling was low percentage.

 

Last season, they sustained drives and covered up flaws on defense. This season, they aren't doingvthat.

[Guest]

And running backs are running backs.

[jersey cubs fan]

They were running play action out of formations they hadn't even run out of yet in the game on monday. The third down playcalling was low percentage.

 

Last season, they sustained drives and covered up flaws on defense. This season, they aren't doingvthat.

 

I'm not sure what flaws you think they covered up but I know from past discussions you vastly overate how they performed last year. They sucked. They just did it in a non-embarrassing fashion. Now they have a worse offense and their best lineman probably shouldn't be playing due to injury.

[WrigleyField 22]

They were running play action out of formations they hadn't even run out of yet in the game on monday. The third down playcalling was low percentage.

 

Last season, they sustained drives and covered up flaws on defense. This season, they aren't doingvthat.

 

I'm not sure what flaws you think they covered up but I know from past discussions you vastly overate how they performed last year. They sucked. They just did it in a non-embarrassing fashion. Now they have a worse offense and their best lineman probably shouldn't be playing due to injury.

Yup, its admirable and all he wants to play through it, but hopefully they horsefeathers him down at some point.

[minnesotacubsfan]

horsefeathers that man down!

[WrigleyField 22]

Lol. I'll just assume everyone can figure that one out.

[jersey cubs fan]

Lol. I'll just assume everyone can figure that one out.

misspelled sit

 

move him to fullback, or something else that begins with F and ends in K with a U somewhere.

 

no idea

[David]

Lol. I'll just assume everyone can figure that one out.

misspelled sit

 

move him to fullback, or something else that begins with F and ends in K with a U somewhere.

 

no idea

 

sit or shut

[Guest]

They were running play action out of formations they hadn't even run out of yet in the game on monday. The third down playcalling was low percentage.

 

Last season, they sustained drives and covered up flaws on defense. This season, they aren't doingvthat.

 

I'm not sure what flaws you think they covered up but I know from past discussions you vastly overate how they performed last year. They sucked. They just did it in a non-embarrassing fashion. Now they have a worse offense and their best lineman probably shouldn't be playing due to injury.

 

I don't really think you understand how close the Bears were to actually having a good record last year. The play calling was conservative, but very good, considering the Bears had Josh Bellamy as their number 1 receiver a majority of the time. You cannot judge it by numbers alone.

 

these are not games that the bears were simply competitive, these were games the Bears should have won. Gase did a fantastic job managing the games and calling plays to control the ball. Loggains is pitiful. The bears are getting killed in time of possession, they are dead last. Last year, they finished #8 in the NFL. It's absolutely asinine to assert that play calling isn't a huge part of this.

 

but to prove my point about how close they were last year with nothing, we'll go over their losses once Jay came back:

 

Detroit: Led until :21 seconds left in the game. Jay heroically led them to a field goal that sent them into OT.

 

Minnesota (playoff team): Led until 1:49 left in the game. Jay trucked Harrison at the goal line to put them ahead by a TD in the 4th. Bridgewater got insanely lucky with a couple of throws. The last throw was set up when he hit a receiver for a miracle catch, after the receiver had gone out of bounds and never re-established himself inbounds.

 

Denver (super bowl champs): They had a chance to tie with a 2 point conversion with 24 seconds left, but this is a game that they didn't deserve to win.

 

San Francisco: led this game the whole way and dominated. They led up until 1:42 in the 4th and Gabbo became a miracle man. they lost in OT after a missed field goal by Gould to win it.

 

Washington (playoff team): Gould missed another field goal to tie with 1:45 left.

 

Minnesota (playoff team): Got blown out.

 

Detroit: Were driving late down by 4 and Cutler threw an interception in Lions territory with under two minutes to play.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Stannis

[Sammy Sofa]

Saying victory or loss regularly hinged on one or two plays isn't the sign of a good team.