Sale scratched from his start (7/23)...involved in "clubhouse incident" per White Sox

[Tryptamine]

Fastball down almost 1.5mph, K/9 down almost a full 3, Contact rate up nearly 8%. Right now would be a really scary time to invest.

[David]

Fastball down almost 1.5mph, K/9 down almost a full 3, Contact rate up nearly 8%. Right now would be a really scary time to invest.

 

fastball down almost 1.5 mph from last year...right in line with every other year since he became a starter.

[Thusly Boned]

The luminaries over at WSI were discussing a potential trade of Sale to the Cubs, and some of them seem to think that Rizzo and Bryant plus a prospect would be a fair return.

 

If Sale is actually dealt, there will be some very angry and flummoxed folks over there. I mean Sale would net a very nice prospect haul, but expecting multiple young superstars is lunacy.

[Thusly Boned]

Whether it's ill advised or not, he hasn't been less effective than last year.

 

FIP and xFIP are both up a full point over last year (and are career highs), k/9 down three (and a career low this far), his k/bb ratio is well down from the past couple years and and his contact rate is up. His ERA is down a tick, but his LOB% is up. His babip is down a fair bit, but his LD% is not.

 

If that's not less effective, I'm not sure what is.

 

Plus there's my strong but probably baseless feeling that his stick figure frame is going to fail hard under the stress of his delivery one of these days.

[Derwood]

The luminaries over at WSI were discussing a potential trade of Sale to the Cubs, and some of them seem to think that Rizzo and Bryant plus a prospect would be a fair return..

 

Counter offer: Pound Sand

[Thusly Boned]

The luminaries over at WSI were discussing a potential trade of Sale to the Cubs, and some of them seem to think that Rizzo and Bryant plus a prospect would be a fair return..

 

Counter offer: Pound Sand

 

I wouldn't be able to counter offer as I would have laughed so hard that I hyperventilated and passed out.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The luminaries over at WSI were discussing a potential trade of Sale to the Cubs, and some of them seem to think that Rizzo and Bryant plus a prospect would be a fair return.

 

If Sale is actually dealt, there will be some very angry and flummoxed folks over there. I mean Sale would net a very nice prospect haul, but expecting multiple young superstars is lunacy.

 

I have to imagine that was one guy's delusion and a few other guys maybe entertained it. But I can't imagine a rational human being or beings thinking such a thing.

 

This being said, The Rangers are reportedly very interested in Sale, and I could see them sending Profar, Gallo, and Brinson. If they want to make things interesting, they could expand it to include Robertson and/or Abreau.

[Thusly Boned]

The luminaries over at WSI were discussing a potential trade of Sale to the Cubs, and some of them seem to think that Rizzo and Bryant plus a prospect would be a fair return.

 

If Sale is actually dealt, there will be some very angry and flummoxed folks over there. I mean Sale would net a very nice prospect haul, but expecting multiple young superstars is lunacy.

 

I have to imagine that was one guy's delusion and a few other guys maybe entertained it. But I can't imagine a rational human being or beings thinking such a thing.

 

This being said, The Rangers are reportedly very interested in Sale, and I could see them sending Profar, Gallo, and Brinson. If they want to make things interesting, they could expand it to include Robertson and/or Abreau.

 

I don't know that a return based around Profar/Gallo would do it for me. There's a lot of bust potential with Gallo, and I don't think Profar is ever going to be the star he once projected to be.

 

One more reasonable guy over at WSI suggested a deal with Boston for a deal headlined by Moncada. I have to think they'd have a shot at getting Moncada and two of Benintendi/Devers/Kopech, plus some filler. More if they packaged Sale and Robertson. Boston's rotation isn't going to cut it, and I they might be willing to give up a haul for a 27 year old ace.

 

I guess it depends on how "long term" the White Sox are going to start looking, if you take Hahn at his word. Gallo and Profar would probably slide right on to the White Sox roster, but I like the Red Sox prospects more.

[Vinestal]

There's less value from Profar than a lot of prospects because he spent so much time injured that he's arbitrqtion eligible next year and you only control him for what 3 years?

[UMFan83]

No on Profar and Gallo. I don't want to see the White Sox ruin the careers of other teams prospects that I actually like

[UMFan83]

The luminaries over at WSI were discussing a potential trade of Sale to the Cubs, and some of them seem to think that Rizzo and Bryant plus a prospect would be a fair return.

 

If Sale is actually dealt, there will be some very angry and flummoxed folks over there. I mean Sale would net a very nice prospect haul, but expecting multiple young superstars is lunacy.

 

Almost as funny was the guy who said he wouldn't want Javy or Soler in any deal.

 

Yeah why would you want a 23 year old with gold caliber defense that is putting up a 2.5ish WAR season in a part time role with gold glove defense.

 

And why would anyone want to take a chance on a young OF with like 1000 professional PAs that has unworldly power and has shown flashes of being a monster despite overall disappointing results. And not someone who is all or nothing at the plate as he can work the count and take walks.

[toonsterwu]

I'd give up a lot, but I really don't think the two teams will successfully match up. They'll, and somewhat justifiably, want multiple impact talents, and preferably, some guys that have produced in the majors. While I think some of their fan proposals are extreme, as all fan bases have a tendency to be ... I'm also not sure that a Schwarber, Torres, Happ, Cease offer, or Baez instead of Schwarber, really makes all that much sense for them. Even if we extend it to Schwarber/Baez ... I'm still not sure they do that ... and anything beyond that gets counter-productive.

 

It's not that I think they won't move Sale. I think Rick Hahn is smart enough that if he convinces ownership on the need to move Sale, they'll okay it ... but I just don't know if we match up all that well with them. My guess is they hold onto Sale.

 

I think Quintana is the more likely guy they move, as Quintana, while still likely netting a lot, probably is cheaper enough to see a deal happen in this weak pitching market.

 

Still, I could see them hold onto both and try again in the off-season.

[David]

Whether it's ill advised or not, he hasn't been less effective than last year.

 

FIP and xFIP are both up a full point over last year (and are career highs), k/9 down three (and a career low this far), his k/bb ratio is well down from the past couple years and and his contact rate is up. His ERA is down a tick, but his LOB% is up. His babip is down a fair bit, but his LD% is not.

 

If that's not less effective, I'm not sure what is.

 

Obviously his peripherals and FIP numbers are going to be down if he's intentionally pitching to more contact. That is a given and was the starting point for the whole conversation.

 

His ERA (and thus ERA+) are both considerably better than last year. That's literally more effective. I have no idea if it's sustainable and something he can succeed with, but as of now he is giving up fewer runs. The LD% is the only one of those that really makes the case that this is just luck and he isn't one of those weak contact guys, but LD% is a pretty awful stat so it's not going to convince me that he can't on its own.

Edited July 23, 2016 by David

[David]

The luminaries over at WSI were discussing a potential trade of Sale to the Cubs, and some of them seem to think that Rizzo and Bryant plus a prospect would be a fair return.

 

If Sale is actually dealt, there will be some very angry and flummoxed folks over there. I mean Sale would net a very nice prospect haul, but expecting multiple young superstars is lunacy.

 

Almost as funny was the guy who said he wouldn't want Javy or Soler in any deal.

 

Yeah why would you want a 23 year old with gold caliber defense that is putting up a 2.5ish WAR season in a part time role with gold glove defense.

 

For the same reasons I'm hoping we sell high on him?

 

You can debate their futures (and there's lots of ways they can work out well) but not liking Javy or Soler is far from criminally stupid.

[David]

And unless you think Cooper and Sale were on a propaganda campaign back as far as Sox Fest to explain away what he knew would be an unintended forthcoming drop in K's, there's a decent likelihood that he can go back to pitching the way he used to if our people think that's better (though pitching to weak contact isn't the worst idea with our defense - as we've seen).

 

Not that I think there's any chance in hell we'll get him. I'm just not all that scared by the change in his peripherals given what was explicitly laid out before the season by he and his pitching coach.

[weis21]

i don't think the cubs should consider giving up any guys for sale. they are finally BUYERS not SELLERS. geez, kind of disappointed this is even being discussed.

[David]

i don't think the cubs should consider giving up any guys for sale. they are finally BUYERS not SELLERS. geez, kind of disappointed this is even being discussed.

lol

[David]

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[David]

after how annoyed we all were by the sox fans and others mentioning the sox in the same breath as the cubs early this season, isn't the best schadenfreude ever seeing them start out blisteringly hot for a solid month and then collapsing to the point that they're selling off sale?

[David]

Despite the White Sox apparently leaking out that he's ill, Morosi says no

 

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[David]

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wtf is going on

 

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[/tweet] Edited July 23, 2016 by David

[KrisBryantisaBeast]

Rosenthal also confirmed that he is not ill. I wonder who is getting him.

 

*Edit apparently no one. *

Edited July 23, 2016 by KrisBryantisaBeast

[Tracer Bullet]

Clubhouse incident?

[Rex Buckingham]

Clubhouse incident?

 

My guess: screaming at Ventura because he's a moron and demanding to be traded from such a terrible franchise

[Derwood]

Clubhouse incident?

 

Caught banging Sandberg's wife