Ground Rule Double or Dong? (Rules Question)

[RammyFanny]

So at softball yesterday, the opposing team tied it in the last inning off a fluky play.

 

I'm in LF. The opposing hitter hits a rocket over my head. I immediately sprint back towards the ball in case I need to rob it.

 

The ball hits directly off the middle of the fence on the fly. Then, the ball hits directly off of my foot/leg (without touching the ground) and flies straight up in the air and over the fence.

 

After awhile, the ump calls it a home run and says it's because it didn't hit the ground.

 

But wouldn't the middle of the fence essentially count as the ground? Unless I'm completely off base, if the ball was rocketed off the wall and I hypothetically caught it after it hit the wall before it touches the ground, they wouldn't call it an out, would they? Isn't that how it works with the green monster? I know that's a completely different situation but it would still indicate the fence kind of counts as the ground right?

 

But then again if it hits off of the top of the wall and flies over it would still count as a HR so I'm confused again.

 

 

In reality it had to have hit the ground. Or it might hit the fence, me, the fence again, me again, and then went over. But let's just say it happened like the ump said.

[Banedon]

So at softball yesterday, the opposing team tied it in the last inning off a fluky play.

 

I'm in LF. The opposing hitter hits a rocket over my head. I immediately sprint back towards the ball in case I need to rob it.

 

The ball hits directly off the middle of the fence on the fly. Then, the ball hits directly off of my foot/leg (without touching the ground) and flies straight up in the air and over the fence.

 

After awhile, the ump calls it a home run and says it's because it didn't hit the ground.

 

But wouldn't the middle of the fence essentially count as the ground? Unless I'm completely off base, if the ball was rocketed off the wall and I hypothetically caught it after it hit the wall before it touches the ground, they wouldn't call it an out, would they? Isn't that how it works with the green monster? I know that's a completely different situation but it would still indicate the fence kind of counts as the ground right?

 

But then again if it hits off of the top of the wall and flies over it would still count as a HR so I'm confused again.

 

 

In reality it had to have hit the ground. Or it might hit the fence, me, the fence again, me again, and then went over. But let's just say it happened like the ump said.

 

If the ball hit the top of the fence and went over, it'd be a home run. If it hit your glove or head or other part of your body, and went over, it'd be a home run. So, imo, if it does both before going over, it should still be a home run. If it never hit the actual ground, I think it's a HR.

[UMFan83]

Hmm, great question. I think there's a difference between "out/hit" and "hit/home run".

 

This is what I mean...the ball has to land in your glove on a fly for it to be a fly out. Like you said, you cannot catch a ball for an out that hits off the wall and into your glove without hitting the ground. So basically as soon as the ball hits the wall, you cannot record a fly out, it will be a hit (assuming a miracle force out).

 

Now that we've established that this is a hit, you have to determine whether the ball lands in the field of play or is a home run. I'm pretty sure I've seen balls hit off the top of the wall and go over for a HR. I've also seen balls that hit off the very top of the wall and bounce back into play for a regular hit. We've also seen plays like a ball hitting Jose Canseco on the head and bouncing over for a HR. So my guess based on this logic is that, however improbable it is, a ball that hits off the wall, off a person and over the wall should be a home run. I have no idea if that's right or if there is even a rule for this, but that would be my guess.

 

Edit: AKA what Banedon said in about 200 less words

[RammyFanny]

So at softball yesterday, the opposing team tied it in the last inning off a fluky play.

 

I'm in LF. The opposing hitter hits a rocket over my head. I immediately sprint back towards the ball in case I need to rob it.

 

The ball hits directly off the middle of the fence on the fly. Then, the ball hits directly off of my foot/leg (without touching the ground) and flies straight up in the air and over the fence.

 

After awhile, the ump calls it a home run and says it's because it didn't hit the ground.

 

But wouldn't the middle of the fence essentially count as the ground? Unless I'm completely off base, if the ball was rocketed off the wall and I hypothetically caught it after it hit the wall before it touches the ground, they wouldn't call it an out, would they? Isn't that how it works with the green monster? I know that's a completely different situation but it would still indicate the fence kind of counts as the ground right?

 

But then again if it hits off of the top of the wall and flies over it would still count as a HR so I'm confused again.

 

 

In reality it had to have hit the ground. Or it might hit the fence, me, the fence again, me again, and then went over. But let's just say it happened like the ump said.

 

If the ball hit the top of the fence and went over, it'd be a home run. If it hit your glove or head or other part of your body, and went over, it'd be a home run. So, imo, if it does both before going over, it should still be a home run. If it never hit the actual ground, I think it's a HR.

I can see that. It just technically sounds logical when we're taking about the top of the fence, but kind of crazy that it should be a homer when it hits the middle/lower part of the fence. But obviously that shouldn't make a difference (if what you said is actually true by the rules which who knows); it's just really fluky.

[RammyFanny]

Hmm, great question. I think there's a difference between "out/hit" and "hit/home run".

 

This is what I mean...the ball has to land in your glove on a fly for it to be a fly out. Like you said, you cannot catch a ball for an out that hits off the wall and into your glove without hitting the ground. So basically as soon as the ball hits the wall, you cannot record a fly out, it will be a hit (assuming a miracle force out).

 

Now that we've established that this is a hit, you have to determine whether the ball lands in the field of play or is a home run. I'm pretty sure I've seen balls hit off the top of the wall and go over for a HR. I've also seen balls that hit off the very top of the wall and bounce back into play for a regular hit. We've also seen plays like a ball hitting Jose Canseco on the head and bouncing over for a HR. So my guess based on this logic is that, however improbable it is, a ball that hits off the wall, off a person and over the wall should be a home run. I have no idea if that's right or if there is even a rule for this, but that would be my guess.

 

Edit: AKA what Banedon said in about 200 less words

 

Yep, I can totally see that. And the extra description definitely made it easier comprehend. I was getting ready to argue it until I realized I really had no clue and I'm sure the random softball ump didn't either.

[mul21]

Technically, it's probably a double and a 2 base error because the ball went to an area that's unplayable.

[Andy]

Seems to me like it should be a double and 2-base error because the ball bounded back into the field of play first, but I can see the argument either way.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

let's address the real problem which is that you suck at defense

[Bote McBoteface]

Only example i can remember of this is Moises Alou hitting a line drive off the middle of the left field wall at MMP when he was with the Astros. Ball bounced straight up and over the wall for a home run. Didnt hit a fielder, but since we know that if a ball hits a fielder and bounces over that its a home run, id say that the ump got it right.

[Sammy Sofa]

You had me at double dong.

[RammyFanny]

let's address the real problem which is that you suck at defense

You won't be thinking that after you read Duke's 5,000 word front page article about my defense coming out tomorrow.

[Sammys Boombox]

Wrong thread

[Cubbie Swagger]

Does this issue have anything to do with the yellow part at the top of the wall?

 

I thought that if it hits the wall below the yellow part, it's basically considered the ground. Like, if you drop a fly ball and it hits the wall, and then you catch it again before it hits the ground, that's not an out, is it? But then if the ball hits the yellow part at the top of the wall and bounces over, it's a homer.

 

I might be making this all up.

[RammyFanny]

Does this issue have anything to do with the yellow part at the top of the wall?

 

I thought that if it hits the wall below the yellow part, it's basically considered the ground. Like, if you drop a fly ball and it hits the wall, and then you catch it again before it hits the ground, that's not an out, is it? But then if the ball hits the yellow part at the top of the wall and bounces over, it's a homer.

 

I might be making this all up.

 

I don't know about baseball, but in my softball league we are talking about an old chain linked fence so it doesn't really apply there.

[Careless]

I remember a case where a hit in a MLB game went wall-glove-over the wall, but it was so close the umps just thought it was off his glove. The rule is that it should have been ruled a double