Blackhawks off season

[biittner77]

For those that can't wait to start breaking up the 2015 Blackhawks, lets do that here instead of the celebrating the cup thread.

 

Yes, Tim, the Hawks could trade Crawford and get value in return. How much? It's hard to say. Goalies are a little like "Established closers" in that teams are willing to pay for good ones but aren't always excited to give up value to acquire them. The fact that Crawford has won multiple Stanley Cups increases his value. Trading him now would be very bold since goalies are also like middle relievers in that they can go from dominant to awful pretty quickly sometimes.

[biittner77]

For those that can't wait to start breaking up the 2015 Blackhawks, lets do that here instead of the celebrating the cup thread.

 

Yes, Tim, the Hawks could trade Crawford and get value in return. How much? It's hard to say. Goalies are a little like "Established closers" in that teams are willing to pay for good ones but aren't always excited to give up value to acquire them. The fact that Crawford has won multiple Stanley Cups increases his value. Trading him now would be very bold since goalies are also like middle relievers in that they can go from dominant to awful pretty quickly sometimes.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'll wait before participating in this one.

[Guest]

I'm amazed at how a hot streak in the playoffs has changed people's opinions on Crawford. Just a couple series ago we were arguing whether he was average or slightly above average. Suddenly he's an untouchable, elite goalie that should be paid like his peers at that level.

 

I thought as a group we were pretty good about not letting hot streaks change our overall opinions.

 

Now, the argument for NOT trading Crawford that I can get is this one: acknowledge that he's not an elite goalie but argue that neither Raanta nor Darling are adequate replacements. In that case, don't blow a season where the window is still open by throwing a lousy goalie out there. Of course, that was the exact argument after the first cup win, too.

[Guest]

I've said it in the other thread, but I'll say it here, too. I'm irrationally excited about Panarin.

[biittner77]

After getting pulled in game 2 of the Nashville series, I thought the consensus among people here was that they'd need Crawford before the playoffs were over which turned out to be true. It's hard to know how it would have gone with Darling in net but he got exposed by the Preds. I shudder to think what Tampa would have done to him.

 

I can see the argument for not wanting to pay $6 for any goalie. The Hawks will be entering next season needing to replace half of their blue line after Roszy retires(?) and Oduya takes the money that someone else can/will offer. Not really a good situation to be going with relative unknowns in goal. If you think the window is closing, all the more reason to keep Crawford for 1 more season.

 

I think the Hawks will listen to offers for Crawford but it would take quite an overpay for them to trade him. Finding a taker for Sharp will be a lot easier than people think. He'd make a good captain for a young team. It will be interesting to see what they can get for Bickell. Though he didn't get on the score sheet in the traditional sense, he was the hits leader for the entire playoffs entering the final. There are teams that value HITZ though the Hawks may have to take back some salary to make that deal.

[Guest]

I'm amazed at how a hot streak in the playoffs has changed people's opinions on Crawford. Just a couple series ago we were arguing whether he was average or slightly above average. Suddenly he's an untouchable, elite goalie that should be paid like his peers at that level.

 

I thought as a group we were pretty good about not letting hot streaks change our overall opinions.

 

Now, the argument for NOT trading Crawford that I can get is this one: acknowledge that he's not an elite goalie but argue that neither Raanta nor Darling are adequate replacements. In that case, don't blow a season where the window is still open by throwing a lousy goalie out there. Of course, that was the exact argument after the first cup win, too.

 

Looks like he checks in tied at 7th with last nights losing goalie just 50k behind him at 10th.

 

If he's overpaid it's not enough to want to move him for the downgrade to Raanta and Darling for the reason that the window is still wide open.

[RynoRules]

Crawford is a good goalie. He's not elite or in the class of Rinne, Price, etc., and that's fine. He will be subject to bad games because he isn't Dominik Hasek, and that's also fine. His value will never be higher than it is now, but unless we are offered a return that includes several high picks and/or a high-ceiling young wing or d-man, I wouldn't trade him. He's a solid (if overpaid) goalie who comes through in the majority of tough spots. By my count, he gave up maybe one bad goal against the Lightning, and he was huge in Games 6 and 7 v. the Ducks. They don't grow on trees.

 

Goners for sure, IMO:

 

- Sharp

- Bickell

- Vermette

 

Hopefully they find a way to bring Richards back on a deal similar to the one he got this year. At minimum he is very good in his own zone and is still a creative playmaker who looks great with Kane.

 

Oduya will probably be back on a two year deal. There just aren't that many viable options on the FA market who will take the sort of deal he probably would to stay here. Plus they shouldn't be looking to turn-over too many blue liners in one off-season.

 

I'd bring Desjardins back if possible, effectively as a Bickell replacement. He will be a lot cheaper.

Edited June 16, 2015 by RynoRules

[Banedon]

Vermette is gonna be the one I wish we could keep.

[jersey cubs fan]

Oduya will probably be back on a two year deal. There just aren't that many viable options on the FA market who will take the sort of deal he probably would to stay here. Plus they shouldn't be looking to turn-over too many blue liners in one off-season.

 

He really shaped into a good option, and I completely forgot he's been a part of four seasons now.

[biittner77]

The first domino to fall will be the price tag for Saad. Some people say because he's a RFA that he can't really get much more than $3 mil. Others are thinking that it will take $5 to avoid having to match an offer sheet. If they can get Saad for $3 they might be able to afford Oduya but they would likely have to trade either Shaw or Kruger to make up the difference.

 

However, if you're Oduya, you'd have to be very tempted to leave. The defense market being thin means that someone might give him that one last big contract. He's already won 2 cups so you can't really blame him for wanting financial security. Hockey players are less mercenary when it comes to money vs. chance to win but any other team could offer him more money.

[Guest]

Yea I don't really have any expectation to retain Oduya. Shaw would be an interesting sell high piece though.

[jersey cubs fan]

Hockey players are less mercenary when it comes to money vs. chance to win but any other team could offer him more money.

 

Are they? Hockey seems to have a hell of a lot more turnover than any other sport. Sure some of that is old guys going to a potential Cup winner (Richards/Kimmo) but a lot of that is just guys going to where the cash is available.

[biittner77]

Hockey players are less mercenary when it comes to money vs. chance to win but any other team could offer him more money.

 

Are they? Hockey seems to have a hell of a lot more turnover than any other sport. Sure some of that is old guys going to a potential Cup winner (Richards/Kimmo) but a lot of that is just guys going to where the cash is available.

 

Hockey players seem to hang around forever. That would force fringe guys to take what's offered in terms of money and situation.

 

Big name players don't hit FA very often. The last big one, Parise, decided to go home rather than take his best chance to win. Toews and Kane took less money to stay in Chicago. I guess that's a pretty small sample. It seems like the big names wind up staying with their current team at some type of "home town discount". I admit though that it might just be my conception.

[jersey cubs fan]

Hockey players are less mercenary when it comes to money vs. chance to win but any other team could offer him more money.

 

Are they? Hockey seems to have a hell of a lot more turnover than any other sport. Sure some of that is old guys going to a potential Cup winner (Richards/Kimmo) but a lot of that is just guys going to where the cash is available.

 

Hockey players seem to hang around forever. That would force fringe guys to take what's offered in terms of money and situation.

 

Big name players don't hit FA very often. The last big one, Parise, decided to go home rather than take his best chance to win. Toews and Kane took less money to stay in Chicago. I guess that's a pretty small sample. It seems like the big names wind up staying with their current team at some type of "home town discount". I admit though that it might just be my conception.

 

Well, you had Campbell and Hossa who both signed huge deals as free agents. Kovalchuk didn't want to stay where he was so he got himself traded and a huge contract with a new team. In addition to Parise the Wild also signed Ryan Suter to $98m contract.

 

Sure, the trend is for teams to keep their best guys, but it doesn't always happen and the discount is as much about signing before they actually go through free agency.

[biittner77]

Here's how I see this breaking down:

Not going anywhere:

Toews

Hossa

Saad

Kane

Tuevo

Keith

Hjammer

 

They'd listen to offers but would rather keep:

Seabrook

Kruger

Shaw

Crawford

 

Gone:

Richards

Vermette

Oduya

Roszy

 

Free to a good home:

Carcillo

Rundblad

[Banedon]

Here's how I see this breaking down:

Not going anywhere:

Toews

Hossa

Saad

Kane

Tuevo

Keith

Hjammer

 

They'd listen to offers but would rather keep:

Seabrook

Kruger

Shaw

Crawford

 

Gone:

Richards

Vermette

Oduya

Roszy

 

Free to a good home:

Carcillo

Rundblad

 

Sharp?

[biittner77]

I left off Sharp and Bickell since they are the most obvious trade candidates.

[rawaction]

Here's how I see this breaking down:

Not going anywhere:

Toews

Hossa

Saad

Kane

Tuevo

Keith

Hjammer

 

They'd listen to offers but would rather keep:

Seabrook

Kruger

Shaw

Crawford

 

Gone:

Richards

Vermette

Oduya

Roszy

 

Free to a good home:

Carcillo

Rundblad

 

I agree with most of this. I think they'll try to bring Richards back for another year. I thought he was very good the last 2-3 weeks, and is really good with Kane.

 

I think I would see what I could get for Seabrook, if I was able to get Oduya back. Seabs is better than Oduya, but if they could get a couple guys and a pick for the price of Seabrook....you have to strongly consider it. But it would have to be a complete steal for me to want to give him up with Oduya gone, because of the lack of talent on D.

[apete6]

I left off Sharp and Bickell since they are the most obvious trade candidates.

 

Missing Versteeg as well. Hes got 1 year $2.2M left. Would be nice to get him out in an effort to keep Vermette or Richards or Oduya. Doubt it works though.

[Guest]

i'll always love you, sharpie. best looking blackhawks player ever

[jersey cubs fan]

because people can't keep this out of the other thread

 

The "skaters won, not the goalie" meme doesn't really apply this year, especially not to the Final. They lose that series without Crawford playing insane.

 

there was also the stretch in the 2013 playoffs where the blackhawks were a complete mess and he stole multiple games. i understand what jersey and tim are trying to say, but i think they are severely underestimating his impact on the last 2 cup runs. he hasn't just made the saves he's supposed to make. he has legitimately taken over games, and could easily be a 2 time conn smythe winner.

an injured bishop was more impactful than crawford this series

[Guest]

How do you figure?

[UMFan83]

Is Oduya really gone? Depends on how much he is going for but I think we might be able to keep him.

[MarkR]

because people can't keep this out of the other thread

 

The "skaters won, not the goalie" meme doesn't really apply this year, especially not to the Final. They lose that series without Crawford playing insane.

 

there was also the stretch in the 2013 playoffs where the blackhawks were a complete mess and he stole multiple games. i understand what jersey and tim are trying to say, but i think they are severely underestimating his impact on the last 2 cup runs. he hasn't just made the saves he's supposed to make. he has legitimately taken over games, and could easily be a 2 time conn smythe winner.

an injured bishop was more impactful than crawford this series

 

Yeah, he got hurt, got outplayed by Crow, and ran into his own defenseman costing a huge swing goal in Game 5 at home.