BA on Cubs/Pitch Framing

[Guest]

sorry david, i know your software requires it, but im not going to list every obvious, rhetorical hypothetical

 

the point is that "let someone else pay it" is a refrain for the poor teams. i don't want the cubs doing that crap with their good players outside of the most extreme circumstances (i.e. something like your player refuses to talk extension and insists on hitting the market, then receives an outlandish offer, and the cubs have an equal or better replacement readily available). if the cubs are popular for years and monetize their tv rights (not to mention all this other revenue generating crap they're building) the way they seem very sure they will, they shouldn't have a problem. they need to be and should be what the dodgers are now. they cant spend it in IFA, they can't spend it on the draft...it's either give it to their (and other teams') players or make ricketts some money.

 

maybe it's time to update your financial software. It's completely likely that the idea of paying a massive contract to a 30-whatever Rizzo is not a good idea, regardless if you're tossing money around like a [expletive] sultan.

 

what do you suggest they do with the money then?

 

if the cubs have it to spend, you should want them to spend it to be as good as they possibly can, regardless of how much value they're getting out of it.

 

if they can sustain a $280M payroll, you should want them to.

Doesn't Trout's contract end sometime around then? I'd rather they spend it on the guy that plays further up the spectrum at a younger age. I'm sure there will be other possible examples. I don't want them to spend huge money on past-prime players just because they're already here. Spend the money, but spend it on the best possible options at the time. That may not be Rizzo (likely won't be Rizzo) at age 32.

 

Sign them both.

 

But obviously you're not going to get an argument from me against signing what will probably be one of the best 5-6 players of all time, even if it means (though it shouldn't have to) losing one of our own.

[jersey cubs fan]

what do you suggest they do with the money then?

 

if the cubs have it to spend, you should want them to spend it to be as good as they possibly can, regardless of how much value they're getting out of it.

 

if they can sustain a $280M payroll, you should want them to.

 

I'd want them to keep their options open and consider the idea of letting him walk and let an internal candidate take the role.

[Guest]

what do you suggest they do with the money then?

 

if the cubs have it to spend, you should want them to spend it to be as good as they possibly can, regardless of how much value they're getting out of it.

 

if they can sustain a $280M payroll, you should want them to.

 

I'd want them to keep their options open and consider the idea of letting him walk and let an internal candidate take the role.

Agreed. Heck his replacement in 2021 may not even be in the system yet and will be a pre-arb player ready to out-produce him.

[Tracer Bullet]

what a weird thread

[Guest]

what do you suggest they do with the money then?

 

if the cubs have it to spend, you should want them to spend it to be as good as they possibly can, regardless of how much value they're getting out of it.

 

if they can sustain a $280M payroll, you should want them to.

 

I'd want them to keep their options open and consider the idea of letting him walk and let an internal candidate take the role.

Agreed. Heck his replacement in 2021 may not even be in the system yet and will be a pre-arb player ready to out-produce him.

 

if we're fortunate enough that we have a pre-arb guy ready to outproduce the guy who is slated to be offered $300M by somebody, then by all means, sign someone else with that money. but [expletive] spend it all.

[Tyrant]

what do you suggest they do with the money then?

 

are you already projecting that the cubs will have nowhere to spend money in 7 years? how the hell are we supposed to know? all he's saying is that a 32 year old rizzo may not be the best place for that money.

[MWV]

Holy [expletive], way to hijack your own thread, David.

Anyway, that pitch framing stuff sounds interesting. I've often wondered what "skills" can be coached with respect to pitch framing. Also, I love seeing the words "Cubs' catcher Kyle Schwarber".

[Guest]

what do you suggest they do with the money then?

 

are you already projecting that the cubs will have nowhere to spend money in 7 years? how the hell are we supposed to know? all he's saying is that a 32 year old rizzo may not be the best place for that money.

 

no

 

i'm suggesting that for a team that projects to have a metric [expletive] ton of revenue by that point, if rizzo can command that type of money then there's probably not that many better places to spend it (or organizations capable of doing so) because he'd be one of the best FA available (again, in which case, what i really would have wanted to happen was an extension a year or two before so that maybe you don't have to pay for as many post prime years).

 

in other words, if we have a player capable of commanding a $300M contract, unless we have the most can't miss guy ready to take his place (which, is that even a thing?), we shouldn't be letting that player go. if the market thinks he's worth hundreds of millions of dollars and we are one of the wealthiest 2-3 teams, it probably isn't a bad idea to have that guy.

[Guest]

Holy [expletive], way to hijack your own thread, David.

Anyway, that pitch framing stuff sounds interesting. I've often wondered what "skills" can be coached with respect to pitch framing. Also, I love seeing the words "Cubs' catcher Kyle Schwarber".

 

it is what it is and my opinion on that is strong

 

but yeah, those pitching machines sound pretty [expletive] cool. i guess i don't know that much about that stuff but it hadn't even occurred to me that they had machines that could execute those types of pitches (and how much can they help hitters with pitch recognition drills too?)

[imb]

David, think about the last 1B only player to command that type of contract. Think about how old he was when he signed and then ask yourself if that signing was good idea for the team that signed him, or any team, for that matter.

[Guest]

David, think about the last 1B only player to command that type of contract. Think about how old he was when he signed and then ask yourself if that signing was good idea for the team that signed him, or any team, for that matter.

 

i think that if the cardinals had the dodgers payroll capacity, they would have kept pujols...and i would have wanted them to do that if i were a cardinals fan, regardless of what it looks like in hindsight in a damn near worst case scenario outcome.

Edited April 2, 2015 by David

[Cubswin11]

David, think about the last 1B only player to command that type of contract. Think about how old he was when he signed and then ask yourself if that signing was good idea for the team that signed him, or any team, for that matter.

The last 4 I can think of are Pujols, Fielder, Votto and Teixeria. So yeah, not a great proposition.

[Guest]

Also, bring back steroids so we don't have to worry about silly things like 32 year old future HOFs falling off a cliff suddenly.

[TruffleShuffle]

I would just like to say that reading articles like this still makes me so happy, because I feel like this kind of [expletive] never would have happened under Hendry and friends. So much better to be out in front of the game than pulling a Phillies by being 5 years behind it.

[Guest]

David, think about the last 1B only player to command that type of contract. Think about how old he was when he signed and then ask yourself if that signing was good idea for the team that signed him, or any team, for that matter.

The last 4 I can think of are Pujols, Fielder, Votto and Teixeria. So yeah, not a great proposition.

You forgot Howard.

[Guest]

I would just like to say that reading articles like this still makes me so happy, because I feel like this kind of [expletive] never would have happened under Hendry and friends. So much better to be out in front of the game than pulling a Phillies by being 5 years behind it.

 

For sure.

[Guest]

David, think about the last 1B only player to command that type of contract. Think about how old he was when he signed and then ask yourself if that signing was good idea for the team that signed him, or any team, for that matter.

The last 4 I can think of are Pujols, Fielder, Votto and Teixeria. So yeah, not a great proposition.

You forgot Howard.

 

well that was [expletive] unforgivably stupid from any lens

 

you cant bring ruben amaro into these types of discussions

 

thing would've been [expletive] stupid even if the phillies were bringing in $1B a year

[jersey cubs fan]

The solution to this is approach Rizzo in a couple years and offer to rip up the existing and extend him another 3 years at a more substantial rate than he is getting but a much lower rate than he could theoretically get as a free agent.

 

If he refuses, keep him at the current rate and let him walk.

[Guest]

The solution to this is approach Rizzo in a couple years and offer to rip up the existing and extend him another 3 years at a more substantial rate than he is getting but a much lower rate than he could theoretically get as a free agent.

 

i'm definitely ok with this

[Guest]

The solution to this is approach Rizzo in a couple years and offer to rip up the existing and extend him another 3 years at a more substantial rate than he is getting but a much lower rate than he could theoretically get as a free agent.

 

If he refuses, keep him at the current rate and let him walk.

I'm plenty happy to just keep him at his current contract and see where things are at later on. I think that is the huge benefit if the financial flexibility that David is speaking of comes to pass.

[Guest]

damnit looks like this article is behind a paywall now

[Guest]

All this speculation is ignoring that Theo will still be the GM, and he will have brought in even more talent through the draft through those several years and craftily traded off bit parts/or never was type players for meaningful talent that keeps the dynasty going for many years. When Theo has the wheels churning fully to his design, there won't be any reason to ever give out big contracts to aging players who will be subject to obvious declines in productivity. There will be a younger model ready to be called up to replace the aging player.

 

This is the moment we have all been waiting for. The youth movement is here, and it's going to be here for a long time. Put your seatbelts on. It's going to be a wild ride!

[Tyrant]

/makes mental note that the terrible hypothethical rizzo contract discussion is in the pitch framing tinythread

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Maybe let's wait until we find out if this actually produces quality MLB defensive catchers before we get too excited. It's worth trying, but maybe it can't really be taught.

[jersey cubs fan]

/makes mental note that the terrible hypothethical rizzo contract discussion is in the pitch framing tinythread

 

mods need to do their jobs and merge it to random musings