Cole Hamels Traded to Rangers

[Gmoney08]

They arent trading a core four guy for Hamels. They just sent Shark out for Russell. I dont see them turning around and trading some of the core four for Hamels now.

 

Theo will try and take the money off the Phillies payroll and offer him a couple guys towards the bottom of the top 10 and just say take it or leave it.

[Sammy Sofa]

are we ever going to stop acting like vogelbach is some great trade chip? sub .800 OPS as a supposed slugging 1b. nobody's falling over themselves to trade for him.

 

Vogelbach is purposefully being treated as a trade chip that's a cut below, no? And while he's not some trump card, he's also got an OPS 90 points above the league average, so he's not tanking at Daytona either.

Yeah I mean high WOBA guys that flash advanced approaches with plus power just grow on trees and most front offices don't pay attention to peripherals at all.

 

"Flash" is probably the key word in this; his inability to consistently hit at the levels hoped of coupled with the defensive issues make him more of an add-on than a centerpiece in a deal. A decent add-on, sure, but you're not centering a major deal around him.

Oh, I never implied him as a centerpiece.

 

Then what's your issue with what people are saying? abuck only objected to the idea of a trade centered around him.

[Guest]

are we ever going to stop acting like vogelbach is some great trade chip? sub .800 OPS as a supposed slugging 1b. nobody's falling over themselves to trade for him.

 

Vogelbach is purposefully being treated as a trade chip that's a cut below, no? And while he's not some trump card, he's also got an OPS 90 points above the league average, so he's not tanking at Daytona either.

 

there are lots of guys that aren't "tanking" the level they're at. doesn't mean anyone wants to trade for them.

 

he needs to be a 30 hr guy to have value. he's shown no ability to do that.

Not a lot of guys at his level have approaches and discipline that he has. The power will come, people say that about a ton of guys who have hit way fewer home runs in the minors than him.

[Sammy Sofa]

are we ever going to stop acting like vogelbach is some great trade chip? sub .800 OPS as a supposed slugging 1b. nobody's falling over themselves to trade for him.

 

Vogelbach is purposefully being treated as a trade chip that's a cut below, no? And while he's not some trump card, he's also got an OPS 90 points above the league average, so he's not tanking at Daytona either.

 

there are lots of guys that aren't "tanking" the level they're at. doesn't mean anyone wants to trade for them.

 

he needs to be a 30 hr guy to have value. he's shown no ability to do that.

Not a lot of guys at his level have approaches and discipline that he has. The power will come, people say that about a ton of guys who have hit way fewer home runs in the minors than him.

 

Yeah, but the power needs to come for him to be truly valuable. It's all well and good to think it will come, but if you're looking to use him as a valuable trading chip he needs to actually start showing that power again consistently.

[Rob]

Yeah, there's just about a zero percent chance that anything gets done. Amaro has already shown he has unreasonable expectations about what Hamels should return in a trade. And maybe there was a chance he'd get it when playoff teams were shopping for upgrades, but the Cubs aren't under the same market pressure to add wins this season.

 

I'd be shocked if the Cubs were willing to include someone of Almora's prospect status. Vogelbach, and spare parts maybe.

 

Then the Cubs have unreasonable expectations about what Hamels should return too

 

Do they?

 

Hamels is signed for 4/96 after this year. He's a 4 fWAR pitcher on the wrong side of 30 with recent injury issues. He's worth almost exactly what he's getting paid.

 

If the Cubs want to acquire Hamels, they need to do so for a prospect cost of less than they feel Lester and Scherzer are likely to overpaid by. Otherwise, what's the point? Almora straight up would probably be just about an even match for that figure, but when was the last time you saw a guy like Hamels traded straight up for a guy in the middle of a team's top 10 list? Amaro is going to insist on other good prospects in the deal. I don't see our front office doing it. And I don't think they're wrong.

[A New Era]

There was a rumor he asked for the Dodgers top 3 prospects. Who are all in the top 20. If anyone thinks Almora will come even %5 close to being the headliner. Please slap your own head a few times.

[Sammy Sofa]

There was a rumor he asked for the Dodgers top 3 prospects. Who are all in the top 20. If anyone thinks Almora will come even %5 close to being the headliner. Please slap your own head a few times.

 

Is this a haiku?

[Guest]

are we ever going to stop acting like vogelbach is some great trade chip? sub .800 OPS as a supposed slugging 1b. nobody's falling over themselves to trade for him.

 

Vogelbach is purposefully being treated as a trade chip that's a cut below, no? And while he's not some trump card, he's also got an OPS 90 points above the league average, so he's not tanking at Daytona either.

 

there are lots of guys that aren't "tanking" the level they're at. doesn't mean anyone wants to trade for them.

 

he needs to be a 30 hr guy to have value. he's shown no ability to do that.

Not a lot of guys at his level have approaches and discipline that he has. The power will come, people say that about a ton of guys who have hit way fewer home runs in the minors than him.

 

Yeah, but the power needs to come for him to be truly valuable. It's all well and good to think it will come, but if you're looking to use him as a valuable trading chip he needs to actually start showing that power again consistently.

 

i think he's shown enough to be a valuable piece in any deal, and not just a throw in. But like i said, no way he could headline any deal for a player the caliber of Hamels. i think Almora, Vogelbach, and Black.

[Rob]

are we ever going to stop acting like vogelbach is some great trade chip? sub .800 OPS as a supposed slugging 1b. nobody's falling over themselves to trade for him.

 

Who's doing that?

 

I threw him out there as an example of a deal the Cubs would offer, but the Phillies wouldn't accept.

 

Vogelbach is a guy that people throw out there as a trade chip less because of his value but more because he's obviously a man without a position for the Cubs. Even if the bat comes around, he needs to be on an AL team so he can DH.

[Guest]

Yeah, there's just about a zero percent chance that anything gets done. Amaro has already shown he has unreasonable expectations about what Hamels should return in a trade. And maybe there was a chance he'd get it when playoff teams were shopping for upgrades, but the Cubs aren't under the same market pressure to add wins this season.

 

I'd be shocked if the Cubs were willing to include someone of Almora's prospect status. Vogelbach, and spare parts maybe.

 

Then the Cubs have unreasonable expectations about what Hamels should return too

 

Do they?

 

Hamels is signed for 4/96 after this year. He's a 4 fWAR pitcher on the wrong side of 30 with recent injury issues. He's worth almost exactly what he's getting paid.

 

If the Cubs want to acquire Hamels, they need to do so for a prospect cost of less than they feel Lester and Scherzer are likely to overpaid by. Otherwise, what's the point? Almora straight up would probably be just about an even match for that figure, but when was the last time you saw a guy like Hamels traded straight up for a guy in the middle of a team's top 10 list? Amaro is going to insist on other good prospects in the deal. I don't see our front office doing it. And I don't think they're wrong.

 

Relative to Lester/Scherzer, the 4 year duration is a big benefit.

 

Still, since Hamels doesn't have the highest end upside that would accompany a 24 million AAV(Lester and Scherzer do), and that I'm not a big fan of paying for pitchers starting at age 31, there's a lot of risk for this not being a great idea. I'd rather they make more of a challenge trade for a younger guy by dealing a real prospect that eliminates the 'logjam' than give up significant assets for the right to pay market value for 4 years of Hamels.

[Guest]

There was a rumor he asked for the Dodgers top 3 prospects. Who are all in the top 20. If anyone thinks Almora will come even %5 close to being the headliner. Please slap your own head a few times.

 

Is this a haiku?

 

if he wouldn't do Hamels for Pederson straight up, he deserves to be slapped.

[A New Era]

There was a rumor he asked for the Dodgers top 3 prospects. Who are all in the top 20. If anyone thinks Almora will come even %5 close to being the headliner. Please slap your own head a few times.

 

Is this a haiku?

 

if he wouldn't do Hamels for Pederson straight up, he deserves to be slapped.

 

No. If we could land a top 6 prospect in all of baseball, he surely could have landed more than just Pederson. But we should be slapped for spending any time discussing this nil possibility. He was stupid not to trade him before the deadline. He won't now, so let's just stop.

Edited August 7, 2014 by A New Era

[Guest]

There was a rumor he asked for the Dodgers top 3 prospects. Who are all in the top 20. If anyone thinks Almora will come even %5 close to being the headliner. Please slap your own head a few times.

 

Is this a haiku?

 

if he wouldn't do Hamels for Pederson straight up, he deserves to be slapped.

 

No. If we could land a top 6 prospect in all of baseball, he surely could have landed more than just Pederson. But we should be slapped for spending any time discussing this nil possibility.

 

perhaps he's come down from that amyl nitrate popper

[A New Era]

Well you guys can continue wasting your time discussing something that won't happen. Have fun with that!

[Sammy Sofa]

This guy is totally hccf's son or something.

[Guest]

Well you guys can continue wasting your time discussing something that won't happen. Have fun with that!

 

NOW IF YOU'LL EXCUSE ME, I HAVE A TIVO FULL OF UNWATCHED DHARMA AND GREGS TO ATTEND TO!

[Rob]

 

Then the Cubs have unreasonable expectations about what Hamels should return too

 

Do they?

 

Hamels is signed for 4/96 after this year. He's a 4 fWAR pitcher on the wrong side of 30 with recent injury issues. He's worth almost exactly what he's getting paid.

 

If the Cubs want to acquire Hamels, they need to do so for a prospect cost of less than they feel Lester and Scherzer are likely to overpaid by. Otherwise, what's the point? Almora straight up would probably be just about an even match for that figure, but when was the last time you saw a guy like Hamels traded straight up for a guy in the middle of a team's top 10 list? Amaro is going to insist on other good prospects in the deal. I don't see our front office doing it. And I don't think they're wrong.

 

Relative to Lester/Scherzer, the 4 year duration is a big benefit.

 

Agreed. I'm even operating under the assumption that Lester and Scherzer are likely to find themselves overpaid due to years 5-7 of whatever contracts they manage to get -- just not by enough to justify a huge prospect package from the Cubs to get Hamels.

 

Still, since Hamels doesn't have the highest end upside that would accompany a 24 million AAV(Lester and Scherzer do), and that I'm not a big fan of paying for pitchers starting at age 31, there's a lot of risk for this not being a great idea. I'd rather they make more of a challenge trade for a younger guy by dealing a real prospect that eliminates the 'logjam' than give up significant assets for the right to pay market value for 4 years of Hamels.

 

Agreed. Not sure who it would be though. There's no real obvious targets for a Latos type of trade out there this offseason. Quintana, maybe? But he'd cost a ton with that contract.

[Guest]

Agreed. Not sure who it would be though. There's no real obvious targets for a Latos type of trade out there this offseason. Quintana, maybe? But he'd cost a ton with that contract.

 

I was actually looking at this last night, and the name the jumped out to me(although I'm biased) was Kyle Gibson. I think he'd take a big leap outside the Twins org, they have a good bit of young pitching already, and they are a little different ideologically so they may be willing to make a deal to add some offense.

 

Other guys with more question marks around them could be Patrick Corbin or Mike Minor.

[davell]

The Dodgers have said they weren't trading ANY of Seager, Perderson, or Urias. Amaro has said he didn't necessarily ask teams for their best prospects. I've seen quotes from GM's saying the rumors going around this deadline were more off than ever. And that stuff that gets reported to begin with only gets talked about 20% of the time anyway.

 

Look at the deadline buyers and figure out how many teams were capable of adding 20+ mill to their payroll on a longterm deal.

 

The Tigers got Price, the Angels have no system at all, the Yankees don't have much of a system and appeared to be targeting rentals and the Dodgers weren't interested in trading their elite guys.

 

Again, I seriously doubt this gets done(hell, we're on his NTC) but the asking price MAY not be ridiculous.

[Rob]

Agreed. Not sure who it would be though. There's no real obvious targets for a Latos type of trade out there this offseason. Quintana, maybe? But he'd cost a ton with that contract.

 

I was actually looking at this last night, and the name the jumped out to me(although I'm biased) was Kyle Gibson. I think he'd take a big leap outside the Twins org, they have a good bit of young pitching already, and they are a little different ideologically so they may be willing to make a deal to add some offense.

 

Other guys with more question marks around them could be Patrick Corbin or Mike Minor.

 

Yeah, Gibson would be real interesting. If we're talking about the Twins though, I'd love to see if they're falling out of love with Hughes. His ERA is way, way higher than his peripherals suggest. I'd snap up the last couple years of his contract in a heartbeat.

 

Looking at it a bit now, I'd love to get Eovaldi.

[Guest]

Tyson Ross

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Well you guys can continue wasting your time discussing something that won't happen. Have fun with that!

Thanks for stopping by.

[Rob]

Tyson Ross

 

Yeah, but getting a guy like him, Kluber, or Keuchel is going to cost a ton this offseason. Why buy high?

[ScrubMD]

Well you guys can continue wasting your time discussing something that won't happen. Have fun with that!

 

He's right, guys. Today is the first day of the rest of our lives.

[Guest]

The short list of teams Hamels cannot block a trade in 2014 (according to Cots):

 

Atlanta, Boston, LA Angels, LA Dodgers, NY Yankees, San Diego, St. Louis, Texas and Washington