5/18 Brewers (Estrada) @ Cubs (Wood) 1:20 PM WGN

[Little Slide Rooter]

Bullpen had 0.1 fWAR going into today, and 29th in net WPA.

 

What exactly is so great about them? We've got some streaky guys on hot streaks right now. It happens.

 

You don't look at Rondon, Ramirez, and Grimm as anything more than streaky? Grimm hasn't even been that good, but the stuff is certainly there.

 

Strop is streaky, but he's hurt anyway. Wright looks good. Schlitter or Parker should hold down a middle relief role decently. Rosscup looked capable.

 

Rivero and Vizcaino are coming soon.

 

Only the 3 vets look like they need to go.(Russell, Villanueva, Veras)

 

It doesn't surprise me you're nitpicking early WAR numbers, which isn't a good way to judge a pen as it is. But we have some serious arms in play and more to come. It's not hard at all to see this as a serious strength in the very near future. Maybe even now with a 7-8-9 of Grimm, Ramirez, and Rondon.

 

Russell's been pretty good as of late. 3 ER 2/6 BB/K in his last 10.

 

Still loving the thought of Grimm, Wright Ramirez, Rivero, Strop, Rondon, Vizcaino making up the pen at some point between now and 2015.

[davell]

Good God man. You'd look at a guy hitting .500/.600/.700 for a season and bitch about it because his BABIP says he shouldn't be that good.

 

If you can't get excited about Rondon, Ramirez, and Grimm by watching them, you've got a doom boner that's not treatable.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Good God man. You'd look at a guy hitting .500/.600/.700 for a season and bitch about it because his BABIP says he shouldn't be that good.

 

If you can't get excited about Rondon, Ramirez, and Grimm by watching them, you've got a doom boner that's not treatable.

 

Are you asking me if I get excited or are you asking me if I think the bullpen has been good?

 

You are doing your usual bait-and-switch.

 

"It's good!"

 

"No, it isn't."

 

"Well it might be soon!"

[davell]

Good God man. You'd look at a guy hitting .500/.600/.700 for a season and bitch about it because his BABIP says he shouldn't be that good.

 

If you can't get excited about Rondon, Ramirez, and Grimm by watching them, you've got a doom boner that's not treatable.

 

Are you asking me if I get excited or are you asking me if I think the bullpen has been good?

 

You are doing your usual bait-and-switch.

 

"It's good!"

 

"No, it isn't."

 

"Well it might be soon!"

 

Read my comments from the first one and find one you disagree with. The pen would look much better currently without Veras and Villanueva. And it has the ability to be much more than that.

[Little Slide Rooter]

As far as sexiness of stuff from a young Cubs reliever, Rondon ranks behind only Marmol, Shark, and Farnsworth when they first came up.

 

First time I ever saw Farns, I questioned whether it was humanly possible to hit him. The answer was yes.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Little Slide Rooter

[Hairyducked Idiot]

All of them, on principle.

[Guest]

You are doing your usual bait-and-switch.

 

Hahahaha.

[Sammy Sofa]

You are doing your usual bait-and-switch.

 

http://replygif.net/i/1505.gif

[davell]

All of them, on principle.

 

Please, can anyone else find anything wrong with what I said?

 

Rondon, Ramirez, and Grimm haven't been good, nor look good in the future?

 

Veras and Villanueva have been bad?

 

Schlitter or Parker look like a long term option. Rosscup could too.

 

Wright has been good. Strop is streaky.

 

Vizcaino and Rivero appear to be great options later on.

 

I'm done with this. It's pointless.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Other than Veras and Villanueva, it's been very solid

 

Cubs bullpen outside of Veras and Villanueva (rank in baseball):

 

fWAR 0.6, t-16th

net WPA -0.48, 17th

 

By what measure is it "very solid"?

[TruffleShuffle]

does kyle get to claim any credit for talking all offseason about the good bullpen or does that get wiped out since he jumped ship on that in spring training?

 

i didn't know if it would be good, but i knew it had a way better chance to be good than last year's piss-poor pen. too many of last year's players were guys with a history of middling k-rates and/or mediocre command. i really like that the cubs have collected a lot of good power arms who, if they fail at starting, can reasonably project to be good middle relievers (grimm, ramirez, vizcaino, arrieta, edwards) along with some power arms who were always going to be relievers (rondon, strop). the bad news is that there aren't enough pitchers in the system who can reliably project to be average or better starters at the major league level.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

does kyle get to claim any credit for talking all offseason about the good bullpen or does that get wiped out since he jumped ship on that in spring training?

 

i didn't know if it would be good, but i knew it had a way better chance to be good than last year's piss-poor pen. too many of last year's players were guys with a history of middling k-rates and/or mediocre command. i really like that the cubs have collected a lot of good power arms who, if they fail at starting, can reasonably project to be good middle relievers (grimm, ramirez, vizcaino, arrieta, edwards) along with some power arms who were always going to be relievers (rondon, strop). the bad news is that there aren't enough pitchers in the system who can reliably project to be average or better starters at the major league level.

 

Agree with all of this.

[davell]

Other than Veras and Villanueva, it's been very solid

 

Cubs bullpen outside of Veras and Villanueva (rank in baseball):

 

fWAR 0.6, t-16th

net WPA -0.48, 17th

 

By what measure is it "very solid"?

 

It's "very solid" because the 3 most important pieces all look great. In fact, anyone that matters to us longterm has looked pretty good to great, other than Strop, who may have had a legit excuse as to why he wasn't.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So I have numbers, and you have vague "looks."

 

Sums it up.

[davell]

So I have numbers, and you have vague "looks."

 

Sums it up.

 

Not at all. You're basically using Strop against me to make your entire argument. I'm just glad you're not running things because with your fixation on small sample sizes, we'd go thru 80 guys a year on the 40 man. Carry on.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So I have numbers, and you have vague "looks."

 

Sums it up.

 

Not at all. You're basically using Strop against me to make your entire argument. I'm just glad you're not running things because with your fixation on small sample sizes, we'd go thru 80 guys a year on the 40 man. Carry on.

 

Oh, STFU.

 

You tried to jump onto David's "Lol, Kyle's so dumb for not thinking the bullpen is great." And I said "guys, it's not great." And I'm right. Admit it. Or don't, whatever.

[Guest]

Other than Veras and Villanueva, it's been very solid

 

Cubs bullpen outside of Veras and Villanueva (rank in baseball):

 

fWAR 0.6, t-16th

net WPA -0.48, 17th

 

By what measure is it "very solid"?

 

2.98 ERA (6th)

3.58 FIP (12th)

[TruffleShuffle]

kyle conveniently picks the two advanced metrics which are probably the most negative toward the cubs' bullpen. what a loser.

[davell]

So I have numbers, and you have vague "looks."

 

Sums it up.

 

Not at all. You're basically using Strop against me to make your entire argument. I'm just glad you're not running things because with your fixation on small sample sizes, we'd go thru 80 guys a year on the 40 man. Carry on.

 

Oh, STFU.

 

You tried to jump onto David's "Lol, Kyle's so dumb for not thinking the bullpen is great." And I said "guys, it's not great." And I'm right. Admit it. Or don't, whatever.

 

No, I'm fairly certain David posted that thinking you'd think the bullpen was looking good now. I was right in figuring you didn't. As it took you all of a week or two to start waffling on that.

 

It's too early to be pulling numbers out one way or the other. If you want me to admit that the numbers don't show currently that our pen is a strength, fine. Check back in at the ASB and re-look at it then. I see no harm whatsoever in being happy with what's going on with the pen. But I prefer looking at things in a positive manner. Something you're completely immune to doing. Olt, Lake, the pen-whatever. You thrive on finding the worst. Sorry, I'm not that way and I'd hate it if I was.

[Guest]

rondon and ramirez are beasts and those numbers are only going to get better as they continue to get the high leverage spots.

 

grimm/strop are more than fine as 3rd or 4th best guys.

[davell]

rondon and ramirez are beasts and those numbers are only going to get better as they continue to get the high leverage spots.

 

grimm/strop are more than fine as 3rd or 4th best guys.

 

And Wright is fine as a 5th. Schlitter's been decent, Vizcaino and Rivero could make it even better. Don't see the harm in saying that.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

kyle conveniently picks the two advanced metrics which are probably the most negative toward the cubs' bullpen. what a loser.

 

I've been on the record as preferring to use net WPA for bullpens for years.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I get positive about things that are worth getting positive about outside of the weird Stockholm Syndrome that makes us want to celebrate platoon 3b with OBPs in the .250s.

[jersey cubs fan]

what's with all the hubbub over the freaking bullpen?

[TruffleShuffle]

more importantly, what's with people reading kyle's posts and responding to them