Who is the Cubs #28 prospect (run-off)?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

This is a run-off for 28, 29 and 30 between Jacob Hannemann, Jen-Ho Tseng and Juan Paniagua.

 

Also, please let me know if you would like to keep going past 30.

 

The poll will be open for 48 hours. Results so far:

 

1. Javier Baez

2. Kris Bryant

3. Albert Almora

4. Jorge Soler

5. CJ Edwards

6. Arismendy Alcantara

7. Pierce Johnson

8. Daniel Vogelbach

9. Christian Villanueva

10. Jeimer Candelario

11. Mike Olt

12. Kyle Hendricks

13. Arodys Vizcaino

14. Paul Blackburn

15. Rob Zastryzny

16. Corey Black

17. Neil Ramirez

18. Eloy Jimenez

19. Josh Vitters

20. Ivan Pineyro

21. Armando Rivero

22. Dillon Maples

23. Duane Underwood

24. Willson Contreras

25. Tyler Skulina

26. Gleyber Torres

27. Shawon Dunston Jr

[Guest]

Why is Juan Paniagua a thing, we need an intervention for the ceiling junkies if he's getting substantial votes.

[toonsterwu]

All three are really ceiling types (even Hannemann, considering how raw he is). Not a huge fan of any of the three being in the top 30, in all honesty, but I guess if we're going to go with ceiling, I'll go with Tseng's ceiling, which seems higher (somewhat due to the fact that he's more of an unknown). Considering Paniagua's lack of a quality 3rd pitch as of last check (isn't his changeup pedestrian), Tseng's ceiling seems a touch higher at the moment.

[craig]

..Also, please let me know if you would like to keep going past 30...

 

I'd keep going. If the mechanics of the poll allow, maybe drop it from 48 to 24-hour polls, to keep it rolling faster?

[Guest]

Why is Juan Paniagua a thing, we need an intervention for the ceiling junkies if he's getting substantial votes.

 

You will regret this.

[Guest]

..Also, please let me know if you would like to keep going past 30...

 

I'd keep going. If the mechanics of the poll allow, maybe drop it from 48 to 24-hour polls, to keep it rolling faster?

 

Yeah, I can run the poll for 24 hours (but that's the shortest I can run it without having to manually closing the poll).

[wekim81]

..Also, please let me know if you would like to keep going past 30...

 

I'd keep going. If the mechanics of the poll allow, maybe drop it from 48 to 24-hour polls, to keep it rolling faster?

I would like to go to 50 again. So that we can start building a list of NSBB top 50’s to look at year to year. And I also think dropping to 24 hours would be a great idea.

[wekim81]

Also Paniagua is the highest of these 3 on my list, so i go with him. And my list was before the decent report from AZ Phil last week.

[davell]

Why is Juan Paniagua a thing, we need an intervention for the ceiling junkies if he's getting substantial votes.

As opposed to what? It's perfectly acceptable to prefer ceiling to guys that have little upside at this point.

[Guest]

Why is Juan Paniagua a thing, we need an intervention for the ceiling junkies if he's getting substantial votes.

 

You will regret this.

 

Not to go full-Kyle here, but he's like a homeless man's Rivero, or maybe a rich man's Concepcion. Scattered reports of plus stuff don't mean anything when you're terrible at Boise/KC at age 23,there's big questions about your viability as a SP, and have other negative externalities(injuries, age-gate).

 

As opposed to what? It's perfectly acceptable to prefer ceiling to guys that have little upside at this point.

 

You're romanticizing ceiling here. The best case outcome for Paniagua is not better than at least half a dozen guys who could've been voted for. Heck, we would probably flip if he found a way to reach the point that Rosscup is at right now.

[Guest]

Why is Juan Paniagua a thing, we need an intervention for the ceiling junkies if he's getting substantial votes.

 

You will regret this.

 

Not to go full-Kyle here, but he's like a homeless man's Rivero, or maybe a rich man's Concepcion. Scattered reports of plus stuff don't mean anything when you're terrible at Boise/KC at age 23,there's big questions about your viability as a SP, and have other negative externalities(injuries, age-gate).

 

As opposed to what? It's perfectly acceptable to prefer ceiling to guys that have little upside at this point.

 

You're romanticizing ceiling here. The best case outcome for Paniagua is not better than at least half a dozen guys who could've been voted for. Heck, we would probably flip if he found a way to reach the point that Rosscup is at right now.

 

I'm just inclined to hold off on writing him off as the 28th best prospect in the Cubs system based on 21 innings under some extenuating circumstances, especially given the fact that he was deemed worthy of a fairly big bonus at that age and with those concerns about his age by some pretty smart baseball guys (Concepcion aside...and fully acknowledging the nature of that last uncapped IFA class). It's not like we're setting a high bar at this stage of the list.

[jersey cubs fan]

Why is Juan Paniagua a thing, we need an intervention for the ceiling junkies if he's getting substantial votes.

 

You will regret this.

 

Not to go full-Kyle here, but he's like a homeless man's Rivero, or maybe a rich man's Concepcion. Scattered reports of plus stuff don't mean anything when you're terrible at Boise/KC at age 23,there's big questions about your viability as a SP, and have other negative externalities(injuries, age-gate).

 

As opposed to what? It's perfectly acceptable to prefer ceiling to guys that have little upside at this point.

 

You're romanticizing ceiling here. The best case outcome for Paniagua is not better than at least half a dozen guys who could've been voted for. Heck, we would probably flip if he found a way to reach the point that Rosscup is at right now.

 

Better than romanticizing Shawon Dunston's offspring.

[toonsterwu]

Tt, I agree with you on paniagua, but jcf is right to point out dunston jr. here, whoi think you pushed for. ceiling has to be a factor in rankings, at least until a player gets to the upper levels. I might've missed it but why were you so high on jr. personally, I wouldn't put him top30, and I think I said as much, as he's so far away and his ceiling seems to be what, a fringe starter.

[Guest]

Better than romanticizing Shawon Dunston's offspring.

 

In both cases we're clinging to the upside that people spoke of for those guys before they played for the Cubs. At least in Dunston's case he has some performance to go on that you could still envision a path to him being a productive player with age-appropriate development. Like David alluded to, there are no future stars at this point in the list(maybe Leal if you squint really hard), which makes it all the more confusing to vote for an old pitcher who's fallen on his face when pitching and now has some injury history too.

[Guest]

Better than romanticizing Shawon Dunston's offspring.

 

In both cases we're clinging to the upside that people spoke of for those guys before they played for the Cubs. At least in Dunston's case he has some performance to go on that you could still envision a path to him being a productive player with age-appropriate development. Like David alluded to, there are no future stars at this point in the list(maybe Leal if you squint really hard), which makes it all the more confusing to vote for an old pitcher who's fallen on his face when pitching and now has some injury history too.

 

Mainly it's because I'm choosing to stick my fingers in my ears and close my eyes on his 2013 and see a decent chance that he's a nice power reliever for us in the relatively near future.

 

As for Dunston, I don't think he'll ever see a major league roster.

Edited March 12, 2014 by David

[jersey cubs fan]

Better than romanticizing Shawon Dunston's offspring.

 

In both cases we're clinging to the upside that people spoke of for those guys before they played for the Cubs. At least in Dunston's case he has some performance to go on that you could still envision a path to him being a productive player with age-appropriate development. Like David alluded to, there are no future stars at this point in the list(maybe Leal if you squint really hard), which makes it all the more confusing to vote for an old pitcher who's fallen on his face when pitching and now has some injury history too.

 

What the hell is the upside for Dunston? Magically becoming a shortstop?

[Guest]

If it were up to me, I'd have all 3 of the guys on this poll ahead of Dunston.

[toonsterwu]

If it were up to me, I'd have all 3 of the guys on this poll ahead of Dunston.

 

If it were up to me, at best, I would only have 1 of the 4 in, and at 30. I'm surprised how people seem to be so low on amaya now.

[Guest]

Better than romanticizing Shawon Dunston's offspring.

 

In both cases we're clinging to the upside that people spoke of for those guys before they played for the Cubs. At least in Dunston's case he has some performance to go on that you could still envision a path to him being a productive player with age-appropriate development. Like David alluded to, there are no future stars at this point in the list(maybe Leal if you squint really hard), which makes it all the more confusing to vote for an old pitcher who's fallen on his face when pitching and now has some injury history too.

 

What the hell is the upside for Dunston? Magically becoming a shortstop?

 

That he adds strength and some pop with development and age to go along with his speed and plate discipline. Optimistically he becomes Denard Span, more likely he tops out as a slappy 5th OF, Joey Gathright with less speed.

[wekim81]

If it were up to me, I'd have all 3 of the guys on this poll ahead of Dunston.

 

If it were up to me, at best, I would only have 1 of the 4 in, and at 30. I'm surprised how people seem to be so low on amaya now.

yeah. This. Amaya is 2nd on my list right now behind Cabrera. I can't believe no one thinks these 2 are top 30 guys anymore.

[davell]

If we're talking pure upside, Paniagua has front line stuff. As good or better than anyone not named CJ or Arodys, in the system.

 

Obviously, I don't see him putting it together quick enough to become that, but it appears he's going to be used as a starter this year and if the control comes back.....I could easily see him take Rivero's quicker route thru leagues. Maybe get a decent look in AA even. And if he's throwing mid to upper 90's and dominating as he did initially, he's easily going to be a top 10 guy next year.

[davell]

If it were up to me, I'd have all 3 of the guys on this poll ahead of Dunston.

 

If it were up to me, at best, I would only have 1 of the 4 in, and at 30. I'm surprised how people seem to be so low on amaya now.

yeah. This. Amaya is 2nd on my list right now behind Cabrera. I can't believe no one thinks these 2 are top 30 guys anymore.

I've voted for Amaya. He's in my top 30. Cabrera is older and has been in AA for 4 years with no truly positive showings at higher levels. Sure, he's got stuff, but as long as he's been around, it's hard to come up with excuses for him. At least with a Paniagua, you can dream. With Cabrera, if things break right, he's a middle reliever at this point most likely.

[WrigleyField 22]

If it were up to me, I'd have all 3 of the guys on this poll ahead of Dunston.

 

If it were up to me, at best, I would only have 1 of the 4 in, and at 30. I'm surprised how people seem to be so low on amaya now.

yeah. This. Amaya is 2nd on my list right now behind Cabrera. I can't believe no one thinks these 2 are top 30 guys anymore.

Amaya is a top 30 for me and probably 4th in my list now. My top two-three hasn't changed much though in a few rounds.

[Clem Fandango]

Amaya was gonna be my next choice after Paniagua. I think Amaya has the ability to be in the dicussion as a Top 20 prospect in the system by year's end. He's my favorite of the lesser known prospects we have.

[craig]

I liked Amaya and voted him top 15 last year, ahead of Christian Villanueva and Alcantara and some of the other then-popular guys like Watkins and Marco Hernandez. I know some scouts have liked some of his tools, so I hope that proves out.

 

But I'm not really that close to voting for him here now after the year he had. A 2B-only defensively, who K's like a slugger and slugs like Barney. 109K/5HR, his high K's from 2012 got worse, not better. He'll need to have a massive BABIP to carry a decent average with HR:K ratios like that.