JFK Assassination

[Sammy Sofa]

The whole point is that there are some pretty big leaps of logic with the whole situation. Why would Oswald wait for the harder shot instead of shooting as they came upon him just in case he missed he would be able to recover. The shots he took were the most difficult given the position that he was in.

 

A common misconception. A moving target going up and away is actually easier to hit (and lead) in a prone or kneeling sniping position than one coming in and down (try it yourself; kneel down and pretend you're aiming a rifle aim slightly above your sightline and then move down and see how little distance/time/maneuverability. Then pretend to aim at a target that is starting below you and then moving up and away and look how much more time/options you have). You also have everyone much more likely to look up and see him if he's firing when the cars are coming towards him. A sniper is going to want to lessen the chance he is spotted before he is sure he has hit his target.

 

Add in the fact that the shots themselves were expert level marksmanship and being able to make 3 shots in the short time window is still difficult now, to the point where it couldn't be duplicated at first. Then with all this difficulty, the 3rd shot was the "bullseye" (not trying to be insensitive with that comment).

 

Oswald was a trained military marksman who could hit targets at 200 yards away only using iron sights. JFK was never more than 90 yards away. And the shots were always able to be duplicated. The trickiest and earliest recreations (and what the conspiracy theorists glommed onto) were the ones that tried to fit the shots in in under 6 seconds. That's when people had the most trouble getting the shots off in time or being as accurate, but the reality is that the actual window of time was more like 9 seconds...more than enough to do the shooting. And the 3rd shot would have been the easiest; the car is completely clear of anything blocking the view, it was barely moving after actually slowing down and JFK was effectively immobilized by the second shot and his back brace.

 

Then you have the horrible mistakes made by the doctors & coroners

 

Understandable given the magnitude of the crime and the chaos of the day (though the doctors trying to treat him didn't really make any mistakes in their efforts to save him), plus the Kennedy's and their circle trying to control the autopsy as much as possible to hide JFK's medical issues.

 

the secret service plans that day, political environment

 

Kennedy had traveled to other "hostile" cities and nothing had happened; despite how it's painted Dallas was no more tumultuous than dozens of other major cities in the U.S. at the time, and the president simply couldn't ignore them in his bid for re-election. And there was nothing unusual about the Secret Service's plans for that day to that point; presidents routinely traveled in open cars on parade routes. Kennedy's assassination was the only one to occur under the Secret Service as we know it, and it the catalyst for a ton of change.

 

Now a bunch of the agents were partying hardy the night before, but the was negligence, not something nefarious (and not the only time it happened, too).

 

and Oswald himself not claiming innocence but calling himself a patsy just gives more fuel to the fire and where there is smoke....

 

Oswald told lie after provable lie that weekend and basically did nothing to expound on his claims of being a "patsy." Remember, he didn't say that just before he was killed; it was nearly two days before he died and he essentially did nothing to try and back that up. You'd think someone who genuinely knew they were being set up would be screaming to the high heavens about it, yet he just drops that one line despite being paraded in front of the press several times. Even his own brother remarked about how Oswald seemed to be enjoying the attention and "toying" with the authorities.

 

Obviously could be all a coincidence and all lined up and aukums (sp?) razor and all but it definitely lends more credence to something nefarious then most tragedies. Definitely not as simple as described

 

Occam's Razor. And hey, weird stuff happens around or related to big historical events. John Wilkes Booth's brother saved Abraham Lincoln's son from being run over by a train. John Hinckley's family was good friends with the Bush family. History is filled with interesting connections and odd coincidences.

[OleMissCub]

Wait, so Ruby was just kind of milling about, saw Oswald, and then shot him in an act of random passion because he just loved JFK that much? That doesn't make a ton of sense, but Ruby sounded pretty mentally ill.

 

Ruby was sitting at home that morning watching all the coverage on TV when one of his strippers called needing $25 rent money. Apparently the strip clubs were shut down because of the assassination. Ruby gets in his car with his dog and drives to the Western Union office. He sits there standing in line and I think even lets a man go in front of him. He wires the money and walks back to his car where his dog is. As he is heading that way he sees the police station down the road and knows something is up so he just walks up and he isn't standing amongst the reporters for more than a minute when they brought Oswald out.

 

Oswald was supposed to be transported earlier that morning around 10. No one knew that he would be delayed for an hour and a half or whatever it was. So if Oswald was going to be taken out in a hit then Ruby should have been near that garage a couple of hours earlier, not sitting at home watching TV in his underwear.

[Guest]

Wait, so Ruby was just kind of milling about, saw Oswald, and then shot him in an act of random passion because he just loved JFK that much? That doesn't make a ton of sense, but Ruby sounded pretty mentally ill.

 

Ruby was sitting at home that morning watching all the coverage on TV when one of his strippers called needing $25 rent money. Apparently the strip clubs were shut down because of the assassination. Ruby gets in his car with his dog and drives to the Western Union office. He sits there standing in line and I think even lets a man go in front of him. He wires the money and walks back to his car where his dog is. As he is heading that way he sees the police station down the road and knows something is up so he just walks up and he isn't standing amongst the reporters for more than a minute when they brought Oswald out.

 

Oswald was supposed to be transported earlier that morning around 10. No one knew that he would be delayed for an hour and a half or whatever it was. So if Oswald was going to be taken out in a hit then Ruby should have been near that garage a couple of hours earlier, not sitting at home watching TV in his underwear.

Unless some cops weren't in on it.

 

Dun, dun, dun

[Sammy Sofa]

Meaning...what?

[Guest]

Meaning...what?

The cops were told/paid to hold up the process until the appointed time. It is a riddle wrapped in mystery inside an enigma.

[Sammy Sofa]

But that's ass ass-backwards; why not just tell Ruby to have his fat ass up and dressed and there at the scheduled time instead of delaying everything? And again, Ruby would have missed the whole thing if Oswald hasn't delayed it all to ask for a change of clothes. Was Oswald in on his own killing?

[Guest]

But that's ass ass-backwards; why not just tell Ruby to have his fat ass up and dressed and there at the scheduled time instead of delaying everything? And again, Ruby would have missed the whole thing if Oswald hasn't delayed it all to ask for a change of clothes. Was Oswald in on his own killing?

It doesn't fit the theory, man.

 

I'm just having fun distracting myself from thinking about the Cubs.

[biittner77]

On the anniversary, the History Channel had a really good show looking at all of the conspiracies. I think what stood out the most from that program was the one author who said that conspiracy theories confuse motive for committing the crime with actually pulling the trigger.

 

Couple other points:

Jack Ruby thought he'd be treated like a hero for being the guy that killed Kennedy's assassin.

 

They had a Navy Seal sniper, using the same rifle, attempt to get off 3 shots and he did it in under 6 seconds.

 

What looked like a gun in the hand of the secret service man driving the car was actually just a reflection off the other SS guy's forehead.

 

The show had some pretty good computer simulations.

[jersey cubs fan]

What looked like a gun in the hand of the secret service man driving the car was actually just a reflection off the other SS guy's forehead.

 

The Nazi's were involved? Holy [expletive].

[ConstableRabbit]

What looked like a gun in the hand of the secret service man driving the car was actually just a reflection off the other SS guy's forehead.

 

The Nazi's were involved? Holy [expletive].

http://i.imgur.com/bwU4r.gif

[Sammy Sofa]

They had a Navy Seal sniper, using the same rifle, attempt to get off 3 shots and he did it in under 6 seconds.

 

Overkill:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WovyEqfR8Hg

[OleMissCub]

They had a Navy Seal sniper, using the same rifle, attempt to get off 3 shots and he did it in under 6 seconds.

 

Overkill:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WovyEqfR8Hg

 

precisely. the whole "6 seconds!?!" part of conspiracy nutters is so stupid. Oswald hardly needed to be some Chris Kyle "Devil of Ramadi" type sniper to pull off the murder.

[Sammy Sofa]

They had a Navy Seal sniper, using the same rifle, attempt to get off 3 shots and he did it in under 6 seconds.

 

Overkill:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WovyEqfR8Hg

 

precisely. the whole "6 seconds!?!" part of conspiracy nutters is so stupid. Oswald hardly needed to be some Chris Kyle "Devil of Ramadi" type sniper to pull off the murder.

 

Plus, like it's been mentioned, the 6 seconds window is likely off and it's more like he had 9 seconds. The whole thing is hinged on making the shooting sound a lot more impressive than it really was; it's weird how conspiracy theorists talk about the "Magic Bullet" like it was some amazing feat of shooting when it was just something a bullet does in a split second when two bodies get in its way.

[OleMissCub]

gufaw...you believe what you want to. bullets always go in a perpetual straight line when they strike bone. i know, i was a navy seal*

 

http://i1.wp.com/masetv.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/jesse-ventura.jpg?resize=300%2C200

 

* I wasn't really, but don't call me out on that.

[Sammy Sofa]

gufaw...you believe what you want to. bullets always go in a perpetual straight line when they strike bone. i know, i was a navy seal*

 

http://i1.wp.com/masetv.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/jesse-ventura.jpg?resize=300%2C200

 

* I wasn't really, but don't call me out on that.

 

This cracks me up:

 

 

It's like OJ trying on the glove in the court.

[OleMissCub]

 

This cracks me up:

 

 

It's like OJ trying on the glove in the court.

 

Literal laugh out loud. He's acting about as clumsy as people in infomercials trying to figure out how to work a blanket or pour a soda.

 

Although he is right when he says "what a piece of [expletive]." I guess Oswald couldn't afford an .03 Springfield or 1917 Enfield. In the same magazine where that Carcano sold for 19 dollars, an 03 Springfield was just being sold for 30 bucks. A 98k Mauser would have been great and not too expensive. Basically any military bolt action rifle at the time was better than a Carcano.

[Sammy Sofa]

 

This cracks me up:

 

 

It's like OJ trying on the glove in the court.

 

Literal laugh out loud. He's acting about as clumsy as people in infomercials trying to figure out how to work a blanket or pour a soda.

 

Although he is right when he says "what a piece of [expletive]." I guess Oswald couldn't afford an .03 Springfield or 1917 Enfield. In the same magazine where that Carcano sold for 19 dollars, an 03 Springfield was just being sold for 30 bucks. A 98k Mauser would have been great and not too expensive. Basically any military bolt action rifle at the time was better than a Carcano.

 

Hey, the guy was bouncing from job to job and moving a lot; even just $11 probably seemed like too steep a difference that day (basically would be about $85 more today).

 

And as relatively crappy as it was, hey, it got the job done. And him harping on the scope is so typical; Oswald was trained to fire using iron sights anyway and could have easily just used those instead. Plus the scope was still usable; someone aware of how it was off could easily compensate, and he almost certainly did know since he had practiced with it plenty of times before that day.