Offseason Rumors

[Cubswin11]

Just heard from a source that the Cubs have been talking to the Royals this week about trading Samardzija, Barney and Scheirholtz for Lorenzo Cain, Kelvin Herrera and 2 high end pitching prospects.

 

My appreciation for that deal hinges heavily on who those two high end prospects are.

I mostly agree, but I also highly appreciate any deal that rids us of Barney. I've always liked Cain going back to his Brewers days but, like Barney, almost all of his value is tied to his defense.

[davell]

Maybe I'm wrong, but the quantity and specificity of all these Samardzija trade rumors make it seem more like "they are trying to deal him in the next six weeks" than just "ho-hum, we wouldn't mind trading him if someone went nuts, we'll see what happens in the next two years."

 

 

Or its pressure to make him sign an extension. But, your thought was my initial inclination as well. And if you're going to trade him, move him when everyone is still in need and FA are waiting to get their price.

[Cubswin11]

And Kelvin Herrera throws some gas, average FB velo over the last two years has been over 98 MPH.

[Guest]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "high end"? Because if I was using that phrase, there's only two players that could possibly fit the definition, and that's Zimmer and Ventura, and that'd be a very good deal. But if that simply means "high ceiling" or "top 10" or something else so that guys like Almonte, Adam, or even Dwyer or Selman fit the bill, then there's a lot more up in the air.

[Clem Fandango]

Just heard from a source that the Cubs have been talking to the Royals this week about trading Samardzija, Barney and Scheirholtz for Lorenzo Cain, Kelvin Herrera and 2 high end pitching prospects.

 

My appreciation for that deal hinges heavily on who those two high end prospects are.

 

 

I'd tell you if I knew. Prospects' names are rarely revealed when my sources provide info to me. Don't know if that's because they don't know or they don't want me to know.

 

I know, no worries. I actually like targeting Herrera. Under control for 5 more years, only gonna be 24 next season, and K's tons of batters. The Cubs really need a power arm in the bullpen like his. Would be a nice acquisition.

 

I'm indifferent on Cain, long term, but he would make a nice stopgap until Almora is good to go.

[HoopsCubs]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "high end"? Because if I was using that phrase, there's only two players that could possibly fit the definition, and that's Zimmer and Ventura, and that'd be a very good deal. But if that simply means "high ceiling" or "top 10" or something else so that guys like Almonte, Adam, or even Dwyer or Selman fit the bill, then there's a lot more up in the air.

 

I'll ask, but I doubt I'll get a satisfactory answer.

[TheDude]

And Kelvin Herrera throws some gas, average FB velo over the last two years has been over 98 MPH.

I was surprised to see -.2 WAR for 2013 when I looked him up. The numbers aren't bad and the k/9 is very strong. At 23 he's a great add-on to the deal. Like so many others have noted though, the pitching prospects really spell the value of the deal.

[Clem Fandango]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "high end"? Because if I was using that phrase, there's only two players that could possibly fit the definition, and that's Zimmer and Ventura, and that'd be a very good deal. But if that simply means "high ceiling" or "top 10" or something else so that guys like Almonte, Adam, or even Dwyer or Selman fit the bill, then there's a lot more up in the air.

 

If it's Zimmer + Ventura + Cain + Herrera then I'm doing that deal yesterday. That's a fantastic return.

[Guest]

Maybe I'm wrong, but the quantity and specificity of all these Samardzija trade rumors make it seem more like "they are trying to deal him in the next six weeks" than just "ho-hum, we wouldn't mind trading him if someone went nuts, we'll see what happens in the next two years."

 

Trading Samardzija would definitely be one of if not the biggest moves of the offseason, so I can see why they'd want to do it sooner than later. They might feel setting the market will get them the best price, there's moves that may or may not have to be made if a deal is consummated(aka if they get Skaggs+Delgado or Zimmer+Ventura, maybe they don't bother with a reclamation project like Johnson/Kazmir/etc in FA), and of course the financial aspects of it, for better(trade Shark for prospects to free up room to sign player X) or worse(trade shark so we can not have to pay his salary another pay period once his raise comes).

[Guest]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "high end"? Because if I was using that phrase, there's only two players that could possibly fit the definition, and that's Zimmer and Ventura, and that'd be a very good deal. But if that simply means "high ceiling" or "top 10" or something else so that guys like Almonte, Adam, or even Dwyer or Selman fit the bill, then there's a lot more up in the air.

 

I'll ask, but I doubt I'll get a satisfactory answer.

 

If it's not your word, that's fine, I was just curious if you were couching it a different way.

[HoopsCubs]

Some additional news from the same source:

 

Other than Castillo, Rizzo, Lake, Sweeney, Arietta, Wood, Strop and Grimm, all Cubs will be shopped this offseason.

[HoopsCubs]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "high end"? Because if I was using that phrase, there's only two players that could possibly fit the definition, and that's Zimmer and Ventura, and that'd be a very good deal. But if that simply means "high ceiling" or "top 10" or something else so that guys like Almonte, Adam, or even Dwyer or Selman fit the bill, then there's a lot more up in the air.

 

I'll ask, but I doubt I'll get a satisfactory answer.

 

If it's not your word, that's fine, I was just curious if you were couching it a different way.

 

TT - "high end" is not my word, it's the source's words.

[Boris]

Bye Starlin. I should have never gotten a jersey.

[Clem Fandango]

And Kelvin Herrera throws some gas, average FB velo over the last two years has been over 98 MPH.

I was surprised to see -.2 WAR for 2013 when I looked him up. The numbers aren't bad and the k/9 is very strong. At 23 he's a great add-on to the deal. Like so many others have noted though, the pitching prospects really spell the value of the deal.

 

Herrera was also a stud in the minors. Over 6 seasons he had 238 IP with 240:58 K:BB ratio and a 1.85 ERA.

 

if you look at his game log, he had two games that really got out of control for him. He gave up 3 home runs (4 runs total) in one outing and 3 runs in another. He had 42 outings where he didn't give up a run. 12 where he gave up 1 run. 3 where he gave up 2. 1 with 3. 1 with 4.

 

Those 5 games can really throw off a relievers entire season's numbers. Nobody is perfect, obviously, but Herrera has some pretty tremendous upside and potential value. The more I look into him the more I like him as a piece in a deal with Kansas City.

[Clem Fandango]

Some additional news from the same source:

 

Other than Castillo, Rizzo, Lake, Sweeney, Arietta, Wood, Strop and Grimm, all Cubs will be shopped this offseason.

 

So Castillo is not being shopped? That Arencibia rumor makes no sense then. Good.

[Splendid Splinter]

Just heard from a source that the Cubs have been talking to the Royals this week about trading Samardzija, Barney and Scheirholtz for Lorenzo Cain, Kelvin Herrera and 2 high end pitching prospects.

 

 

Outside of Zimmer/Ventura... who would be considered as "high end pitching prospects" in the Royals system? I imagine Almonte could be considered as one? Maybe Selman, but I wouldn't consider him as high end.

 

So lets go with this... Shark/Barney/Scheirholtz for Cain/Herrera/Ventura/Zimmer

 

What do you guys think?

[sneakypower]

Just heard from a source that the Cubs have been talking to the Royals this week about trading Samardzija, Barney and Scheirholtz for Lorenzo Cain, Kelvin Herrera and 2 high end pitching prospects.

 

 

Outside of Zimmer/Ventura... who would be considered as "high end pitching prospects" in the Royals system? I imagine Almonte could be considered as one? Maybe Selman, but I wouldn't consider him as high end.

 

So lets go with this... Shark/Barney/Scheirholtz for Cain/Herrera/Ventura/Zimmer

 

What do you guys think?

that's kind of a no-brainer, but KC swapping Zimmer for Almonte seems a much likelier scenario

[Cubswin11]

Just heard from a source that the Cubs have been talking to the Royals this week about trading Samardzija, Barney and Scheirholtz for Lorenzo Cain, Kelvin Herrera and 2 high end pitching prospects.

 

 

Outside of Zimmer/Ventura... who would be considered as "high end pitching prospects" in the Royals system? I imagine Almonte could be considered as one? Maybe Selman, but I wouldn't consider him as high end.

 

So lets go with this... Shark/Barney/Scheirholtz for Cain/Herrera/Ventura/Zimmer

 

What do you guys think?

I do that deal and don't even think twice

Edited November 5, 2013 by Cubswin11

[JeffH]

Just heard from a source that the Cubs have been talking to the Royals this week about trading Samardzija, Barney and Scheirholtz for Lorenzo Cain, Kelvin Herrera and 2 high end pitching prospects.

 

 

Outside of Zimmer/Ventura... who would be considered as "high end pitching prospects" in the Royals system? I imagine Almonte could be considered as one? Maybe Selman, but I wouldn't consider him as high end.

 

So lets go with this... Shark/Barney/Scheirholtz for Cain/Herrera/Ventura/Zimmer

 

What do you guys think?

 

Too lopsided in our favor. It probably won't be Zimmer. Replace him with Almonte and it seems more equitable.

[davell]

Just heard from a source that the Cubs have been talking to the Royals this week about trading Samardzija, Barney and Scheirholtz for Lorenzo Cain, Kelvin Herrera and 2 high end pitching prospects.

 

 

Outside of Zimmer/Ventura... who would be considered as "high end pitching prospects" in the Royals system? I imagine Almonte could be considered as one? Maybe Selman, but I wouldn't consider him as high end.

 

So lets go with this... Shark/Barney/Scheirholtz for Cain/Herrera/Ventura/Zimmer

 

What do you guys think?

 

I would do that and not think twice.

[Guest]

Herrera was also (somewhat inexplicably) demoted to the AAA rotation for a while this summer. Their treatment of him certainly hasn't been reflective of what he's accomplished(144 IP, 3.06 xFIP, 9.4/2.6 K/BB thru age 23), which combined with their glut of relievers, has made him a favorite target of mine for a while.

 

EDIT: Cain is also a good buy low-ish target. As much as I've wanted to trade for Bourjos, there's not a ton of difference between them, and Cain has an extra year of team control and isn't coming off wrist surgery.

[Splendid Splinter]

Just heard from a source that the Cubs have been talking to the Royals this week about trading Samardzija, Barney and Scheirholtz for Lorenzo Cain, Kelvin Herrera and 2 high end pitching prospects.

 

 

Outside of Zimmer/Ventura... who would be considered as "high end pitching prospects" in the Royals system? I imagine Almonte could be considered as one? Maybe Selman, but I wouldn't consider him as high end.

 

So lets go with this... Shark/Barney/Scheirholtz for Cain/Herrera/Ventura/Zimmer

 

What do you guys think?

that's kind of a no-brainer, but KC swapping Zimmer for Almonte seems a much likelier scenario

 

I can see that, but I'm not sure I would back off on the Zimmer/Ventura combo. Screw it. Lets take Cain out and somehow get Starling/Herrera/Ventura/Zimmer. LOL

[HoopsCubs]

Some additional news from the same source:

 

Other than Castillo, Rizzo, Lake, Sweeney, Arietta, Wood, Strop and Grimm, all Cubs will be shopped this offseason.

 

So Castillo is not being shopped? That Arencibia rumor makes no sense then. Good.

 

Yes, according to this source, Welington is not being shopped. But Starlin definitely is. And the FO really likes Justin Grimm.

[davell]

Some additional news from the same source:

 

Other than Castillo, Rizzo, Lake, Sweeney, Arietta, Wood, Strop and Grimm, all Cubs will be shopped this offseason.

 

So Castillo is not being shopped? That Arencibia rumor makes no sense then. Good.

 

I can see "current" truth to that. No reason to shop him unless you get Salty. Maybe Lake isn't being shopped, but he's a perfect 2nd or 3rd piece in a large deal. Not sure his value will ever be higher either.

[Guest]

FWIW, if I understood correctly, ABTY was saying that the royals were in deep on samardzija but that towers got involved and now the royals felt like they were shopping for an F-150 and someone else came in thinking they were buying a Lotus.

 

he also said that bradley was off limits, though, so I'm not sure how those both could be true at the same time.