2013 BA AZL Top 20 Prospects

[CaliforniaRaisin]

No Cubs made this list. I was pretty confident Daury Torrez would. Yikes.

[davell]

Bill Mitchell is doing the chat, said Leal was the Cub with the most attention. Said Torrez upside is higher, more s thrower than a pitcher currently. Seems odd, given his peripherals anyway. Their manager was very high on Jeffrey Baez too.

[Rex Buckingham]

Bill Mitchell is doing the chat, said Leal was the Cub with the most attention. Said Torrez upside is higher, more s thrower than a pitcher currently. Seems odd, given his peripherals anyway. Their manager was very high on Jeffrey Baez too.

 

Man, if Torrez is "more a thrower than a pitcher" will he ever walk someone unintentionally if he "learns to be a pitcher"?

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

How the hell did Torrez and Leal not make the list? Guess it was a stacked league.

[Clem Fandango]

I misread that as AFL and was about to go nuclear with confused rage.

[Guest]

Ben (Leland Grove): Did any of the AZL Cubs' roster warrant a mention for this season?

 

Bill Mitchell: Ben, the Cubs prospect garnering the most attention was pitcher Erick Leal, who they acquired from the Dbacks last spring in the deal for outfielder Tony Campana. He's got good command of all of his pitches and competes well. Another arm to watch is Daury Torrez, who has a higher ceiling than Leal but at this point is more of a thrower than a pitcher. Their manager also liked outfielder Jeffrey Baez, who has a Kirby Puckett type of body with above-average speed and arm; he needs to improve at the plate but was showing advances later in the season.

 

Mike (Smith): Were any cubs close to making the list or are there any players that were intriguing?

 

Bill Mitchell: Mike, I'm going to introduce you to the longest of long shots on the AZL Cubs roster this year --- Orbandy Rodriguez. This very big RHP was originally with the Diamondbacks in the Dominican Summer League in 2008 & 2009. He got hurt, was released by the Dbacks, and was out of baseball until the Cubs brought him to their Dominican academy last year. Rodriguez was 24 this summer, which was way too old for the AZL. But by the end of the season he had his fastball up to 100 and regularly hit the mid-90s. His command improved as the season progressed. The age, injury history and lack of a good secondary pitch work against him, but his size and velocity warrant watching him to see what he does next year. As I said before, they don't come any riskier than Orbandy Rodriguez, but that 100 MPH reading on the speed gun jumps out at you.

[Guest]

How the hell did Torrez and Leal not make the list? Guess it was a stacked league.

 

Not stacked at the top but pretty deep, apparently:

 

The overall talent level in the Rookie-level Arizona League didn’t match the historically rich pool of prospects from the 2012 season, led by Athletics shortstop Addison Russell. Despite the lack of as much high-end talent, this season’s group was just as deep, with at least 30 players warranting consideration for the top 20 list.

 

Sounds like Leal and Torrez were in that 21-30 range.

[Guest]

Torrez must be one heck of a thrower to end up with an 10/1 K/BB ratio.

[TruffleShuffle]

what a weird criticism. torrez has 15 walks in 169 professional innings. isn't "thrower" normally associated with a pitcher who has spotty command?

[davell]

Maybe it's a criticism of not having any command within the strike zone? Gets the ball over the plate, but it's very hittable because of where it's located consistently? I don 't know and I know that THAT was a reach, but I do know that Bill Mitchell catches an absolute ton of games in Arizona, so I am apt to believe its not just some throwaway comment from a talking head that we get tons of.

[Guest]

I typically think of a thrower as someone who doesn't really have an "approach" on the mound. Doesn't know how to set up one pitch with another, doesn't move the ball in & out, up & down or change speeds to keep a hitter off balance.

 

But I have no idea if my definition is what anyone else thinks or if that's just me.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

He didn't even throw a wild pitch or a hit a guy for christ's sake.

[bukie]

I always thought of a thrower as someone who relies on his velocity to get outs, not so much pitch selection or location.

[craig]

I think guys who live on their fastballs and don't have very advanced secondary pitches can get that label, too. At this stage, we don't know that Torres is throwing much other than his fastball. Which might also fit with having few walks and wild pitches.

 

Which would also fit with Tim's comment. If you're just throwing fastball strikes, without doing a lot of offspeed, and without really spotting the ball and moving it around, that might go as a "thrower". There are guys who just rely on their natural movement, or their inconsistent command, to move the ball around.

[Guest]

I think guys who live on their fastballs and don't have very advanced secondary pitches can get that label, too. At this stage, we don't know that Torres is throwing much other than his fastball. Which might also fit with having few walks and wild pitches.

 

Which would also fit with Tim's comment. If you're just throwing fastball strikes, without doing a lot of offspeed, and without really spotting the ball and moving it around, that might go as a "thrower". There are guys who just rely on their natural movement, or their inconsistent command, to move the ball around.

 

The report on Torrez from last year's BA top 20 DSL/VSL prospects mentions he throws a hard slider and change but neither was an out pitch last year in the DSL:

 

Thread from last year[/url]"]Age: 18. B-T: R-R. Ht.: 6-3. Wt.: 200. Signed: Dominican Republic, 2010.

The Cubs had bonus babies like Venezuelan third baseman Mark Malave ($1.6 million) and shortstop Luis Acosta ($1.1 million in 2011) in the DSL last year, but both of them struggled. Lefthander Carlos Rodriguez and outfielders Jeffrey Baez and Roberto Caro had strong seasons, but the Cubs' best prospect in the DSL last year was Torrez, who signed for $25,000 when he was 17 in December 2010. In his second DSL season, Torrez ranked third in ERA and had the lowest walk rate in the league, with just four walks to the 280 batters he faced. Torrez, who is from Esparanza, isn't just a soft tosser. Torrez has a physical build and sits at 90-93 mph with good sink and run on his fastball. He commands all of his pitches, including a hard slider and a changeup that he has feel for, but he doesn't have a putaway pitch yet, which is why he didn't strike out more batters.

[The-Kris-Bryant]

There's no reason to care at all about prospect league rankings from the AZL. It's like trying to determine the chance of a kid becoming a track athlete by watching his first steps as a toddler.

 

Let's look at the top ten from the 2007 rankings -- all the players now are 23 at the youngest, but most are 24 or 25.

 

1. Angel Villanola - a fat first baseman who has never posted an OPS over .750 above the rookie league. Granted he was out of baseball for several years after being accused of murder but paid the victim's family off before trial (ie he did it).

2. Engel Beltre - a speedy center fielder lead-off type who has yet to amass 30 walks in single season. His position on baseball-reference is now listed as pinch runner.

3. Nick Noonan - A former shortstop turned second baseman who sports a career .322 obp in the minors. He made is MLB debut this year and has hit a fantastic .495 OPS in over 100 PA's.

4. Danny Duffy - Now has 31 MLB starts under his belt with an appealing 137:83 K:BB. Granted he's recovering from TJS and looks to be the Poster Child of success from this list....

5. Wilmer Font - Has made 5 MLB appearances, walking 6 guys in 3.1 innings. He has a big arm, but no control. He still has a chance to develop into a good relief pitcher though.

6. Wilmer Bucardo - out of baseball after 2011

7. Drew Cumberland - retired in 2012 and hadn't played since 2010 because of rare complications due to a series of concussions.

8. Danny Carroll - Hey he hit .303 this year.... for the independent Lincoln Saltdogs.

9. Cristian Santana - out of baseball after 2010

10. Mario Martinez - spent the entire season in Low A. He has 107 career walks in nearly 3,000 career minor league plate appearances.

 

In case you're wondering, only one guy from 11 to 20 has played in the majors recently (Charlie Culberson)

 

If you want to go down to 2006, they did have Hank Conger listed #1. To be fair in 2008 they had Starlin Castro and Junior Lake on the list (and a quick glance suggests they might be the best two). Some guy named after a fish topped it the next year, not sure what happened to him but the point still stands. 2005's top prospect was none other than the immortal Mark Pawelek. Hell, Sammy Baez was ranked number 17 and he barely played in 17 more games (he played in 19 the following year and 3 the next). Oops.

[sneakypower]

Mike Carp now plays for the Red Sox