2014 Draft Discussion

[Clem Fandango]

Kolek sounds awesome, but it seems like the correlation between pitchers who hit triple-digits and arm injuries is a little overwhelming to me. When I see 102 mph I think two things. One: Awesome. Two: How long will that last?

 

I know that might be irrational, but I can't help but be wary of anyone who can toss 100 mph or above, health wise.

[Guest]

Kolek sounds awesome, but it seems like the correlation between pitchers who hit triple-digits and arm injuries is a little overwhelming to me. When I see 102 mph I think two things. One: Awesome. Two: How long will that last?

 

I know that might be irrational, but I can't help but be wary of anyone who can toss 100 mph or above, health wise.

 

What's the correlation?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Kolek sounds awesome, but it seems like the correlation between pitchers who hit triple-digits and arm injuries is a little overwhelming to me. When I see 102 mph I think two things. One: Awesome. Two: How long will that last?

 

I know that might be irrational, but I can't help but be wary of anyone who can toss 100 mph or above, health wise.

 

What's the correlation?

 

One million percent

[Clem Fandango]

Just speaking in broad strokes

[Guest]

Kolek sounds awesome, but it seems like the correlation between pitchers who hit triple-digits and arm injuries is a little overwhelming to me. When I see 102 mph I think two things. One: Awesome. Two: How long will that last?

 

I know that might be irrational, but I can't help but be wary of anyone who can toss 100 mph or above, health wise.

 

What's the correlation?

 

One million percent

I'm definitely no expert, but I would think throwing extreme breaking balls (e.g., curve, slider) is much harder on the arm than fastballs. When Maddux was a youngster he could touch the high 90s and work in the mid 90s.

 

Give me a good hard thrower who has a sinker-ball, two-seemer, and a decent change. If I were the Cubs I'd find the best sinker ball teacher I could and make it mandatory that the pitch is learned in the minors.

[RammyFanny]

Kolek's either going to go top 3, or not be worth taking at 4. Probably the first one.

 

I desperately want to like Hoffman, but I just can't yet. Hoping he sways me.

 

Trea Turner doubled in game one and just hit a HR in game two. First HR of the year, second and third XBHs of the season.

Unfortunately he was 1-5 in game one and 1-7 in game two.

[Clem Fandango]

FWIW, there's a lot of once bright names on this list:

 

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/fastest-pitcher-in-baseball.shtml

 

Obviously the ones that stand out are the ones who are good pitchers with great secondary stuff who are capable of making adjustments to continue their career. But there's a lot of names on that list who just completely dropped off the face of the Earth because they either can't stay healthy or their velocity got zapped.

 

I'm definitely no expert, but I would think throwing extreme breaking balls (e.g., curve, slider) is much harder on the arm than fastballs. When Maddux was a youngster he could touch the high 90s and work in the mid 90s.

 

Give me a good hard thrower who has a sinker-ball, two-seemer, and a decent change. If I were the Cubs I'd find the best sinker ball teacher I could and make it mandatory that the pitch is learned in the minors.

 

I tend to agree. Perhaps the fact that they're young and they have the ability to throw triple digits that they tend to dial up their breaking pitches which lead to arm troubles?

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

I'd rather have Kolek than Turner at this point.

[Guest]

So on the broadcast Sunday, Hoyer was talking about the draft and really talked up the organizational need for catchers. Also said we'd probably attack pitching in quantity like we have been. And maybe some left handed hitting.

 

Not sure how much, if anything, can be read into this regarding Alex Jackson. I know people are talking about him moving off the position now, but the Cubs haven't been shy to let a guy stick at a position people question him at, and we have heard that McLeod loves him. They also have tended (SSS) to prefer to draft bats with some reasonable pitching options available to them, including a really good one last year, and it was considered no less of a need at that point.

 

I'm also not sure what the motivation for moving him off is...I've read really mixed things, from thinking he will outgrow the position (and is already a big guy) to thinking his bat is so good you don't want to put that wear and tear on his body.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

So on the broadcast Sunday, Hoyer was talking about the draft and really talked up the organizational need for catchers. Also said we'd probably attack pitching in quantity like we have been. And maybe some left handed hitting.

 

Not sure how much, if anything, can be read into this regarding Alex Jackson. I know people are talking about him moving off the position now, but the Cubs haven't been shy to let a guy stick at a position people question him at, and we have heard that McLeod loves him. They also have tended (SSS) to prefer to draft bats with some reasonable pitching options available to them, including a really good one last year, and it was considered no less of a need at that point.

 

I'm also not sure what the motivation for moving him off is...I've read really mixed things, from thinking he will outgrow the position (and is already a big guy) to thinking his bat is so good you don't want to put that wear and tear on his body.

 

 

Keith Law (from yesterday):

 

Jackson's body has filled out a lot since last summer, and he's now at the point where he looks like he might be too big to catch in pro ball even if all the other tools are or will be present. He caught well on Saturday, sticking every pitch and barely moving his glove, but never had to make a throw during the game and only lobbing the ball to second between innings. Several scouts told me this spring that Jackson had indicated he didn't want to catch in pro ball, but I asked Jackson that question after the game and he said there was nothing to that rumor and that he's happy to catch if he's asked to do so.

 

ETA:

 

I'll be back in the San Diego area to see Cathedral Catholic lefty Brady Aiken pitch on Tuesday at La Costa Canyon High School. Aiken was hitting 94-97 mph last week with a plus curveball, and as a 6-foot-4 southpaw with room to fill out he's jumped to the top echelon of this draft class and is even on top of some national scouts' personal "pref lists."

 

If the draft were held today, he'd probably be in the mix for all teams drafting in the top five, with the Miami Marlins already linked to Tyler Kolek at No. 2 and the Cubs at No. 4 linked to Tyler Beede.

[Guest]

@keithlaw: Cathedral Catholic LHP Brady Aiken sat 92-93 in the first, touched 95, and punched out four. #mlbdraft

[Clem Fandango]

Jackson's body has filled out a lot since last summer, and he's now at the point where he looks like he might be too big to catch in pro ball even if all the other tools are or will be present.

 

Why is someone who is listed as 6'2" 215 considered too big to catch in pro-ball?

[jumbo]

Jackson's body has filled out a lot since last summer, and he's now at the point where he looks like he might be too big to catch in pro ball even if all the other tools are or will be present.

 

Why is someone who is listed as 6'2" 215 considered too big to catch in pro-ball?

 

My understanding is that the bigger you are, the more difficult it is to get into a crouch 80,000,000 times without it affecting your knees

[Guest]

So on the broadcast Sunday, Hoyer was talking about the draft and really talked up the organizational need for catchers. Also said we'd probably attack pitching in quantity like we have been. And maybe some left handed hitting.

 

Not sure how much, if anything, can be read into this regarding Alex Jackson. I know people are talking about him moving off the position now, but the Cubs haven't been shy to let a guy stick at a position people question him at, and we have heard that McLeod loves him. They also have tended (SSS) to prefer to draft bats with some reasonable pitching options available to them, including a really good one last year, and it was considered no less of a need at that point.

 

I'm also not sure what the motivation for moving him off is...I've read really mixed things, from thinking he will outgrow the position (and is already a big guy) to thinking his bat is so good you don't want to put that wear and tear on his body.

 

 

Keith Law (from yesterday):

 

Jackson's body has filled out a lot since last summer, and he's now at the point where he looks like he might be too big to catch in pro ball even if all the other tools are or will be present. He caught well on Saturday, sticking every pitch and barely moving his glove, but never had to make a throw during the game and only lobbing the ball to second between innings. Several scouts told me this spring that Jackson had indicated he didn't want to catch in pro ball, but I asked Jackson that question after the game and he said there was nothing to that rumor and that he's happy to catch if he's asked to do so.

 

ETA:

 

I'll be back in the San Diego area to see Cathedral Catholic lefty Brady Aiken pitch on Tuesday at La Costa Canyon High School. Aiken was hitting 94-97 mph last week with a plus curveball, and as a 6-foot-4 southpaw with room to fill out he's jumped to the top echelon of this draft class and is even on top of some national scouts' personal "pref lists."

 

If the draft were held today, he'd probably be in the mix for all teams drafting in the top five, with the Miami Marlins already linked to Tyler Kolek at No. 2 and the Cubs at No. 4 linked to Tyler Beede.

Thanks for posting that.

 

No surprise the Marlins are linked to Kolek and if the Cubs were linked to a pitcher, it's no surprise it's Beede since Derek Johnson recruited him and worked with him his freshman year at Vandy.

[davell]

Right now, I think I'd take Rodon, Beede, Kolek, or Hoffman over any hitter. Jackson is the only hitter I'd even consider at this point and only over Hoffman.

[Guest]

Right now, I think I'd take Rodon, Beede, Kolek, or Hoffman over any hitter. Jackson is the only hitter I'd even consider at this point and only over Hoffman.

Gatewood?

[Guest]

So on the broadcast Sunday, Hoyer was talking about the draft and really talked up the organizational need for catchers. Also said we'd probably attack pitching in quantity like we have been. And maybe some left handed hitting.

 

Not sure how much, if anything, can be read into this regarding Alex Jackson. I know people are talking about him moving off the position now, but the Cubs haven't been shy to let a guy stick at a position people question him at, and we have heard that McLeod loves him. They also have tended (SSS) to prefer to draft bats with some reasonable pitching options available to them, including a really good one last year, and it was considered no less of a need at that point.

 

I'm also not sure what the motivation for moving him off is...I've read really mixed things, from thinking he will outgrow the position (and is already a big guy) to thinking his bat is so good you don't want to put that wear and tear on his body.

 

 

Keith Law (from yesterday):

 

Jackson's body has filled out a lot since last summer, and he's now at the point where he looks like he might be too big to catch in pro ball even if all the other tools are or will be present. He caught well on Saturday, sticking every pitch and barely moving his glove, but never had to make a throw during the game and only lobbing the ball to second between innings. Several scouts told me this spring that Jackson had indicated he didn't want to catch in pro ball, but I asked Jackson that question after the game and he said there was nothing to that rumor and that he's happy to catch if he's asked to do so.

 

ETA:

 

I'll be back in the San Diego area to see Cathedral Catholic lefty Brady Aiken pitch on Tuesday at La Costa Canyon High School. Aiken was hitting 94-97 mph last week with a plus curveball, and as a 6-foot-4 southpaw with room to fill out he's jumped to the top echelon of this draft class and is even on top of some national scouts' personal "pref lists."

 

If the draft were held today, he'd probably be in the mix for all teams drafting in the top five, with the Miami Marlins already linked to Tyler Kolek at No. 2 and the Cubs at No. 4 linked to Tyler Beede.

Thanks for posting that.

 

No surprise the Marlins are linked to Kolek and if the Cubs were linked to a pitcher, it's no surprise it's Beede since Derek Johnson recruited him and worked with him his freshman year at Vandy.

 

 

Has Beede looked better this year since you said he had a lot to work on?

[Guest]

Has Beede looked better this year since you said he had a lot to work on?

 

Definitely. His biggest problems were control and command (for example, he got chased out of the second inning of an elimination game in the Supers last year after he walked something like 6 guys). He's made great strides both in fall ball and during the regular season and his stuff has remained as good.

[Clem Fandango]

Jackson's body has filled out a lot since last summer, and he's now at the point where he looks like he might be too big to catch in pro ball even if all the other tools are or will be present.

 

Why is someone who is listed as 6'2" 215 considered too big to catch in pro-ball?

 

My understanding is that the bigger you are, the more difficult it is to get into a crouch 80,000,000 times without it affecting your knees

 

Yeah, but that seems like it's a matter of needing to move off the position when they're older and further into their post prime years. Buster Posey is 6'1" 220. Jose Molina is 6'2' 250. Salvador Perez is 6'3" 245. Pierzinski is 6'3" 235. Wieters is 6'5" 230. Joe Mauer is 6'5" 230. Mauer just recently moved off catcher at the age of 30. To say even if he has the tools, he's too big to stick at the position seems a little presumptuous with someone so young and there being plenty of examples of guys his size (and bigger) being able to catch well into their 20's and even 30's. If he's got decent catching skills and a solid bat, but he might have to move off the position as his prime years come to close, who cares if he sticks at the position or not? He'll likely be traded or entering free agency by then anyways.

[Cubswin11]

I really like to hear we are linked to Beede, he's been my #1 guy for us to take since before his season started. But like as others have said he might be pitching himself to a point that he's not there at #4.

[davell]

Right now, I think I'd take Rodon, Beede, Kolek, or Hoffman over any hitter. Jackson is the only hitter I'd even consider at this point and only over Hoffman.

Gatewood?

Not for me. I'm still scared his swing is a bit too long. He'd be my next position player, but it's very doubtful he's going to stick at SS, which would have helped his cause with me. Still, nothing really against him, I just really, really like the pitching. I'd take Aiken over him, if it came down to it.

[Guest]

Keith Law says Brady Aiken has put himself in the 1.1 conversation: http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=mlb-draft&id=1380

[Tedward]

Keith Law says Brady Aiken has put himself in the 1.1 conversation: http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=mlb-draft&id=1380

 

 

Pretty strong comments from Law on Aiken...

 

You could argue that Aiken showed three grade-60 pitches in the fastball, curve and changeup, maybe a little less than that on the change but a little more on the curveball; no matter what, however, he projects to have three plus pitches and it's reasonable, based on his build and delivery, to project him to end up with a fastball that's closer to a 70, averaging 93-94 and touching 97 as a starter.

 

Between this spring and last summer, I've seen all of the top prospects for this year's draft, including Carlos Rodon, Tyler Beede, Jeff Hoffman, Alex Jackson, Tyler Kolek and Jacob Gatewood, and I'd take Aiken over all of them.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

Wow.

[Guest]

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/mlb-draft-white-sox-cubs-scout-projectable-lefty