Re: NBA Draft & Offseason Thread

[imb]

When he turned the deal down earlier in the day, I knew he was gone. I just didn't know it would be during the same damn day ahaha.

 

I think it's OK. It's a big step back this year, but I'm a big Lamb fan, and getting those picks will help. Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka are a playoff team for the duration they're together, and if you can't keep Harden (a story ran nationally about it costing an 20 million a year just to keep him), you might as well grab a chance to try and add another 4th stud later. Maybe it's Lamb or maybe it's someone from one of those picks. And maybe it's no one, but if Harden left, it was gonna be no one, anyway, so might as well try.

[imb]

I don't think the deal was all about the extra 5 mil from either party. I get the feeling it was a token offer, so we could say "well we tried" and he could say "dont turn down a max deal after a rookie contract" when the reality was, he wanted to start.

 

I don't think Harden is a No. 1 (to steal a bad baseball term.) He may not be THE MAN or even want to be, but he wants to start. I think it came down to that.

[illiniguy]

I think OKC just pulled off a trade rape. Rizzo for cashner style. lamb is a stud, they get two picks that matter, and a volume scorer to help their second unit.

[Cubswin11]

Some combination of Lamb/Martin/Maynor/Sefolosha/Collison/Jones will be a solid second unit and I think Martin is as good of guy as any to come in off the bench when Russ and KD come out and just let him chuck for 5-8 minutes with those guys as his surrounding cast.

[Theo]

Lets pump the breaks on calling this a steal for OKC. Martin is a rent a player and a hideous defender. Lamb is an unknown at this point. The Rockets ended with the best player(by a wide margin) in this deal.

[illiniguy]

Lets pump the breaks on calling this a steal for OKC. Martin is a rent a player and a hideous defender. Lamb is an unknown at this point. The Rockets ended with the best player(by a wide margin) in this deal.

Trade rape.

[Exile on Waveland]

This the NBA/basketball and the Rockets received the best player, by far, in the deal. Trading a dollar for a hundred pennies -- or whatever metaphor you want to use -- isn't equivalent. Martin is a fragile, soft, defensive sieve that looks way better on the stat sheet than he actually is. I like Lamb and think he's underrated, but he's no Harden. As for the picks, one may not be received until 2018 and the other likely will be late lottery level. It's nearly impossible to trade a 23-year-old Olympian and win the trade. The Thunder are worse now than they were a few days ago.

[RynoRules]

This the NBA/basketball and the Rockets received the best player, by far, in the deal. Trading a dollar for a hundred pennies -- or whatever metaphor you want to use -- isn't equivalent. Martin is a fragile, soft, defensive sieve that looks way better on the stat sheet than he actually is. I like Lamb and think he's underrated, but he's no Harden. As for the picks, one may not be received until 2018 and the other likely will be late lottery level. It's nearly impossible to trade a 23-year-old Olympian and win the trade. The Thunder are worse now than they were a few days ago.

 

I agree that OKC lost this trade in the short term. Lamb isn't likely to be as good as Harden is now at any time in his career. But let's see what happens with those picks. If Lamb becomes a good scoring 6th man and the picks hit it is a different story, especially since Houston is still going to be mediocre regardless.

[Guest]

This the NBA/basketball and the Rockets received the best player, by far, in the deal. Trading a dollar for a hundred pennies -- or whatever metaphor you want to use -- isn't equivalent. Martin is a fragile, soft, defensive sieve that looks way better on the stat sheet than he actually is. I like Lamb and think he's underrated, but he's no Harden. As for the picks, one may not be received until 2018 and the other likely will be late lottery level. It's nearly impossible to trade a 23-year-old Olympian and win the trade. The Thunder are worse now than they were a few days ago.

Depends on if you're comparing one season of Harden or if you think they'd actually be able to re-sign him. For a single season of Harden, I think OKC got good value here.

[Exile on Waveland]

This the NBA/basketball and the Rockets received the best player, by far, in the deal. Trading a dollar for a hundred pennies -- or whatever metaphor you want to use -- isn't equivalent. Martin is a fragile, soft, defensive sieve that looks way better on the stat sheet than he actually is. I like Lamb and think he's underrated, but he's no Harden. As for the picks, one may not be received until 2018 and the other likely will be late lottery level. It's nearly impossible to trade a 23-year-old Olympian and win the trade. The Thunder are worse now than they were a few days ago.

Depends on if you're comparing one season of Harden or if you think they'd actually be able to re-sign him. For a single season of Harden, I think OKC got good value here.

 

Well, sure. If they had to trade him, then I'd say they did pretty well. But, all things being equal -- which is what I think people mean when they say OKC "won" or "trade rape" -- OKC came out behind. Perhaps they came out as well as they could have; that's hard to say.

[illiniguy]

This the NBA/basketball and the Rockets received the best player, by far, in the deal. Trading a dollar for a hundred pennies -- or whatever metaphor you want to use -- isn't equivalent. Martin is a fragile, soft, defensive sieve that looks way better on the stat sheet than he actually is. I like Lamb and think he's underrated, but he's no Harden. As for the picks, one may not be received until 2018 and the other likely will be late lottery level. It's nearly impossible to trade a 23-year-old Olympian and win the trade. The Thunder are worse now than they were a few days ago.

Depends on if you're comparing one season of Harden or if you think they'd actually be able to re-sign him. For a single season of Harden, I think OKC got good value here.

 

Well, sure. If they had to trade him, then I'd say they did pretty well. But, all things being equal -- which is what I think people mean when they say OKC "won" or "trade rape" -- OKC came out behind. Perhaps they came out as well as they could have; that's hard to say.

They did have to trade him. And they got damn good value back. I think people overrated harden, let's see what he does n his own now. I bet he's not an Olympian level player anymore.

[Exile on Waveland]

They didn't "have" to trade him; they traded him to save money. Even if the cost was prohibitive, and perhaps it was, they had other options: (a) amnesty Perkins, or, better yet, (b) not give Ibaka a deal that he is, in my opinion, unlikely to live up to (and, yes, I understand he is skill/positionally different than Durant-Westbrook in a way Harden is not). So you can talk about Harden maybe not living up to his Olympian status in Houston, but OKC chose a player that has never remotely approached such status over Harden (Ibaka barely played Spain -- though, at his best, he might be a better NBA than international player). As to the actual trade, OKC traded an Olympian for only one proven NBA player (and one who is deeply flawed) and no sure-fire prospects (or sure-fire top-of-the-draft picks).

[Cubswin11]

Mavs waive Delonte West today. Will be interesting to see if he gets picked up by someone with his history. If they could get him under control (mentally/personal issues) I think he could be a good addition to the Lakers to give them some back court depth.

[illiniguy]

Mavs waive Delonte West today. Will be interesting to see if he gets picked up by someone with his history. If they could get him under control (mentally/personal issues) I think he could be a good addition to the Lakers to give them some back court depth.

He would help Miami...... And it would be awesome to see.

[Cubswin11]

Mavs waive Delonte West today. Will be interesting to see if he gets picked up by someone with his history. If they could get him under control (mentally/personal issues) I think he could be a good addition to the Lakers to give them some back court depth.

He would help Miami...... And it would be awesome to see.

I fully endorse that move. As long as Lebron's mom has to sit courtside every game

[Theo]

Kevin Martin is an expiring contract and likely gone after this year, so this deal comes down long term, to, Jeremy Lamb(who some of you already put in the HOF it seems) and some drafts picks they hope to turn out good. For a player like James Harden, I'm sorry that return sucks.

[Theo]

And stop with this nonsense that Harden isn't going to be good on his own. In his third season in the NBA he put up a 21 PER and 660 TS%. His volume numbers are only going to explode with him being a full time starter.

 

The Clippers parlayed Eric Gordon into Chris Paul, so again, I don't see how the Thunder "won" this trade in any sense.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Theo

[Cubswin11]

Amare to miss at least the first 6 weeks after re-injuring his knee. Sweet contract, NY :good:

 

I didn't see them finishing better than the 5 seed this year with him healthy

 

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8571019/amare-stoudemire-new-york-knicks-likely-six-weeks-re-injuring-knee-sources-say

[Cubswin11]

And stop with this nonsense that Harden isn't going to be good on his own. In his third season in the NBA he put up a 21 PER and 660 TS%. His volume numbers are only going to explode with him being a full time starter.

He also isn't going to have 1 top 3 player and another top 15 player on the court to create more space and not have the defense focus on him. He's a fine addition for the Rockets, but they won't be winning anything with him.

[USSoccer]

They did have to trade him. And they got damn good value back. I think people overrated harden, let's see what he does n his own now. I bet he's not an Olympian level player anymore.

 

That isn't how it works. He isn't all of a sudden not "an Olympian level" player because he changes jerseys. He has the exact same skillset he did 72 hours ago.

[Theo]

And stop with this nonsense that Harden isn't going to be good on his own. In his third season in the NBA he put up a 21 PER and 660 TS%. His volume numbers are only going to explode with him being a full time starter.

He also isn't going to have 1 top 3 player and another top 15 player on the court to create more space and not have the defense focus on him. He's a fine addition for the Rockets, but they won't be winning anything with him.

 

Even if you could prove that to be true, that still doesn't justify the shitty ass return they got for him. Harden is a great shooter, can create and can finish. His efficiency numbers may take a bit of a hit, but his volume numbers are only going explode and he's going to be one of the best 2 guards in the league for the next decade.

[Cubswin11]

Would Harden have been a lock for the Olympic team if guys didn't get hurt/decide not to play (Rose, Wade, Bynum, Griffin, Howard, etc.)? Not trying to take away from his skill/accomplishment I think he's a good player, but I don't think he's more than a 2nd option on a championship team.

[illiniguy]

Would Harden have been a lock for the Olympic team if guys didn't get hurt/decide not to play (Rose, Wade, Bynum, Griffin, Howard, etc.)? Not trying to take away from his skill/accomplishment I think he's a good player, but I don't think he's more than a 2nd option on a championship team.

He is a very good supporting player, I think Jeremy lamb is going to be as good. Maybe I'm just too high on lamb.

[illiniguy]

And stop with this nonsense that Harden isn't going to be good on his own. In his third season in the NBA he put up a 21 PER and 660 TS%. His volume numbers are only going to explode with him being a full time starter.

 

The Clippers parlayed Eric Gordon into Chris Paul, so again, I don't see how the Thunder "won" this trade in any sense.

You get that he s going to be less efficient now, right? And his usage is going to go up as well.

[Theo]

And stop with this nonsense that Harden isn't going to be good on his own. In his third season in the NBA he put up a 21 PER and 660 TS%. His volume numbers are only going to explode with him being a full time starter.

 

The Clippers parlayed Eric Gordon into Chris Paul, so again, I don't see how the Thunder "won" this trade in any sense.

You get that he s going to be less efficient now, right? And his usage is going to go up as well.

You do realize he was one of the most efficient guards in the league last year? So by less efficient, it will likely be from "uber efficient" to "really, really efficient"? Just admit your scouting report on James Harden is wrong.