Minor League Discussion & Boxes 6-22-12

[Guest]

Maybe even worse than that for CPatt was Dusty trying to turn him into Juan Pierre.

[davell]

Are you guys talking about Josh Vitters? The 22 year old that's been promoted waaaaaay too agressively every single time he's hit a hot streak, by the previous regime. The guy who's having a very solid season, both offensively and even defensively as well in AAA. The guy who may never be a superstar, but certainly appears to be capable of being at least a league average starting third baseman at this point. Sorry, but not every highly drafted high school kid becomes A-Rod. We should all be pleased with his progress right now. Again, this is IF, we're talking about that guy?

 

Really? Even that still seems a reach for me. It'd be one thing if he played great or even good defense, but he doesn't.

Most reports now are saying he looks like he can be an average 3B defensively. I'd like to think with the lines starting 3B are putting up, Vitters will be able to at least accomplish that.

[jersey cubs fan]

Maybe even worse than that for CPatt was Dusty trying to turn him into Juan Pierre.

 

I still go back to how Andy MacPhail referred to him specifically as not a leadoff man, but a middle of the order hitter (I think it was Andy who spoke to the media about him) and then a couple years later Don Baylor (not Dusty) demanding he be more slap happy.

[Guest]

Maybe even worse than that for CPatt was Dusty trying to turn him into Juan Pierre.

 

I still go back to how Andy MacPhail referred to him specifically as not a leadoff man, but a middle of the order hitter (I think it was Andy who spoke to the media about him) and then a couple years later Don Baylor (not Dusty) demanding he be more slap happy.

 

 

I could swear Dusty did it, too, in 04 or 05, when he was trying to make him a leadoff hitter.

Edited June 22, 2012 by David

[El Duderino]

The injury in '03 was bad too. He looked really good in the first half, If I remember correctly.

[Guest]

Maybe even worse than that for CPatt was Dusty trying to turn him into Juan Pierre.

 

I still go back to how Andy MacPhail referred to him specifically as not a leadoff man, but a middle of the order hitter (I think it was Andy who spoke to the media about him) and then a couple years later Don Baylor (not Dusty) demanding he be more slap happy.

Baylor and Dusty both treated him like Willie Mays Hayes. I forget which of them popped off the Oddibe McDowell line, though.

[jersey cubs fan]

Maybe even worse than that for CPatt was Dusty trying to turn him into Juan Pierre.

 

I still go back to how Andy MacPhail referred to him specifically as not a leadoff man, but a middle of the order hitter (I think it was Andy who spoke to the media about him) and then a couple years later Don Baylor (not Dusty) demanding he be more slap happy.

 

 

Dusty did it, too, in 04 or 05, IIRC.

 

Right, but Donny Buntball was the one who instigated the whole thing just a couple years after the team drafted and started to develop him as what he was capable of being. Baylor was criticizing him as a 20/21 year old for not being a table setter. Corey never should have been exposed to such idiotic major league managing at that time. He should have spent that entire year in high A instead of AA then the majors and should not have been pushed so aggressively, when management's plan and the manager's plan were so diametrically opposed. That's exactly the type of thing that Theo probably will never let happen and why the celebrity manager nonsense was another in a long line of mistakes by the previous regime.

[jersey cubs fan]

Maybe even worse than that for CPatt was Dusty trying to turn him into Juan Pierre.

 

I still go back to how Andy MacPhail referred to him specifically as not a leadoff man, but a middle of the order hitter (I think it was Andy who spoke to the media about him) and then a couple years later Don Baylor (not Dusty) demanding he be more slap happy.

Baylor and Dusty both treated him like Willie Mays Hayes. I forget which of them popped off the Oddibe McDowell line, though.

 

That was Don Baylor. Dusty brushed off Baylor's comments with an "I wasn't there" instead of actually standing up for his player. But the development train was well of the tracks by then.

[Guest]

Maybe even worse than that for CPatt was Dusty trying to turn him into Juan Pierre.

 

I still go back to how Andy MacPhail referred to him specifically as not a leadoff man, but a middle of the order hitter (I think it was Andy who spoke to the media about him) and then a couple years later Don Baylor (not Dusty) demanding he be more slap happy.

Baylor and Dusty both treated him like Willie Mays Hayes. I forget which of them popped off the Oddibe McDowell line, though.

 

Baylor, now a bench coach with the New York Mets, said the 23-year-old Patterson's decision to leave winter ball prematurely after the 2001 season "doesn't say much for his desire."

 

He also likened Patterson to Oddibe McDowell, a one-time top center-field prospect who thought of himself as a power hitter and never lived up to his potential in an eight-year major-league career.

 

Patterson found Baylor's remarks "a little strange."

 

"Everyone is entitled to his opinion on certain things," Patterson said. "Being a first-year player, in my mind I didn't have a bad year last year. It doesn't mean I'm where I want to be. Obviously I have some work to do. But when you look at younger guys coming up in the big leagues, they did not do well right off the bat. It took time for them learn about themselves--play good defense, steal some bases . . . things rookies are expected to do.

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2003-02-19/sports/0302190379_1_corey-patterson-cubs-manager-don-baylor-dusty-baker

[Guest]

Maybe even worse than that for CPatt was Dusty trying to turn him into Juan Pierre.

 

I still go back to how Andy MacPhail referred to him specifically as not a leadoff man, but a middle of the order hitter (I think it was Andy who spoke to the media about him) and then a couple years later Don Baylor (not Dusty) demanding he be more slap happy.

Baylor and Dusty both treated him like Willie Mays Hayes. I forget which of them popped off the Oddibe McDowell line, though.

 

That was Don Baylor. Dusty brushed off Baylor's comments with an "I wasn't there" instead of actually standing up for his player. But the development train was well of the tracks by then.

I went to Oddibe's page to look him up. Holy crap am I glad MLB simplified the structure of the draft. Check this out:

 

Drafted by the St. Louis Cardinals in the 4th round of the 1981 MLB January Draft-Regular Phase from Miami-Dade College (Miami, FL), the Texas Rangers in the 2nd round of the 1981 MLB June Draft-Secondary Phase from Miami-Dade College (Miami, FL), the New York Yankees in the 1st round (9th) of the 1982 MLB January Draft-Secondary Phase from Miami-Dade College (Miami, FL), the Toronto Blue Jays in the 5th round of the 1982 MLB June Draft-Secondary Phase from Miami-Dade College (Miami, FL), the Minnesota Twins in the 1st round (1st) of the 1983 MLB June Draft-Secondary Phase from Arizona State University (Tempe, AZ) and the Texas Rangers in the 1st round (12th) of the 1984 MLB June Amateur Draft from Arizona State University (Tempe, AZ).

[Magnetic Curses]

While I'm excited about Baez, Josh Vitters had 15 Hr's in like 250 AB's in the Midwest league. So I wouldn't put too much into A ball statistics.

The same Josh Vitters who has 11 homers in 250 at bats at AAA? That guy?

 

I understand the point you're making, but it's safe to say most of us will be pretty disappointed of Baez actually ended up like Vitters.

 

I think he's a significantly better talent than him, though, so I'm not really worried about that.

 

most of us see baez and a super-prospect and vitters as a possible real solid player that we can slot in at 3rd and expect to be league average or slightly better, yes.

 

baez has showed a lot thus far in terms of plus plus power.

[Guest]

For those of you who have had problems with Boise's video feed, it's because they've had bandwidth issues. No timeline given on when it will be fixed.

[ctcf]

Yes, but what of Oddibe's water bill these last few months?

[Guest]

Zach Cates moving up to Peoria and will start on Monday.

[toonsterwu]

Zach Cates moving up to Peoria and will start on Monday.

 

Maybe you might have an answer for this ... do you recall the last time that Peoria didn't have a piggyback? Because ... it looks like we don't have a piggyback for now, just maybe long guys out of the bullpen to help guys like Cates/Concepcion/Peralta, with Roario/Jensen being full starters.

[toonsterwu]

Are you guys talking about Josh Vitters? The 22 year old that's been promoted waaaaaay too agressively every single time he's hit a hot streak, by the previous regime. The guy who's having a very solid season, both offensively and even defensively as well in AAA. The guy who may never be a superstar, but certainly appears to be capable of being at least a league average starting third baseman at this point. Sorry, but not every highly drafted high school kid becomes A-Rod. We should all be pleased with his progress right now. Again, this is IF, we're talking about that guy?

 

Really? Even that still seems a reach for me. It'd be one thing if he played great or even good defense, but he doesn't.

Most reports now are saying he looks like he can be an average 3B defensively. I'd like to think with the lines starting 3B are putting up, Vitters will be able to at least accomplish that.

 

I am not a big Vitters guy ... but yes, he looks like he still has a shot to be a league average 3rd baseman. Average 3rd base line this year, so far, unless I'm looking at the wrong numbers, is .252/.316/.400. He definitely looks capable of being average, if not better than that, offensively, and that could account for any defensive shortcomings.

Edited June 22, 2012 by toonsterwu

[jersey cubs fan]

He definitely looks capable of being average, if not better than that, offensively, and that should account for any defensive shortcomings.

 

Really? If he's average offensively and below average offensively you think that would make up for it?

[toonsterwu]

He definitely looks capable of being average, if not better than that, offensively, and that could account for any defensive shortcomings.

 

Really? If he's average offensively and below average offensively you think that would make up for it?

 

c'mon man ... you know what I wrote ... admittedly, I made a typo and should've said "could account for any defensive shortcomings", not should.

[ctcf]

Vogelbach announced on Twitter that he'll finally be playing tonight in AZ

[KingCubsFan]

Maybe even worse than that for CPatt was Dusty trying to turn him into Juan Pierre.

 

I still go back to how Andy MacPhail referred to him specifically as not a leadoff man, but a middle of the order hitter (I think it was Andy who spoke to the media about him) and then a couple years later Don Baylor (not Dusty) demanding he be more slap happy.

Baylor and Dusty both treated him like Willie Mays Hayes. I forget which of them popped off the Oddibe McDowell line, though.

 

That was Don Baylor. Dusty brushed off Baylor's comments with an "I wasn't there" instead of actually standing up for his player. But the development train was well of the tracks by then.

Dusty said he could be Lou Brock, or something to that effect. The mismanagement of Corey Patterson remains one of the biggest mistakes the organization made during the MacPhail/Hendry years, but it gets overlooked due to Prior/Wood. If he was handled right, I think he would still be our CFer, with a few 30/30 seasons, Gold Gloves and All-Star games on his resume.

[ctcf]

Szczur is also back tonight, per Twitter

[Rizzo Smash]

Rizzo RBI Triple

[TruffleShuffle]

holy [expletive] on frank del valle's outing so far.

[El Duderino]

9 up, 9 down for Rosario and we go to the bottom of the 3rd 0-0 as the Famous Chicken makes his 1st appearance!

[davell]

Del Valle's outing is done. 6 perfect, 11 K's. Wow.