Carlos Marmol is broken

[UMFan83]

Dolis is a beast, can't wait to see him get a shot.

 

Yeah that 8:4 BB:K ratio in 15 innings is straight baller status

 

Nice input :roll:

Yeah, way to buttress your position with facts, jerk.

Go play in traffic.

 

Dolis has great stuff, and I'm excited to see him get more opportunties. That's all I said.

 

Yeah he's disagreeing with you and you're ripping on him for presenting facts to state his opinion.

[davell]

I'm going to put the over/under at 3 on how many saves our future closer winds up with this year for the Cubs. His name is Trey McNutt.

 

Under, please.

I hope it's under as well, but I don't see him sticking as a starter.

[Clem Fandango]

Dolis is a beast, can't wait to see him get a shot.

 

Yeah that 8:4 BB:K ratio in 15 innings is straight baller status

 

Nice input :roll:

Yeah, way to buttress your position with facts, jerk.

Go play in traffic.

 

Dolis has great stuff, and I'm excited to see him get more opportunties. That's all I said.

 

Well had you said that everything would probably be fine... but you said he was "a beast". Mariano Rivera is "a beast". Carlos Marmol circa 2010 is "a beast". Rafael Dolis' numbers indicate he is anything but. That includes his minor league numbers.

 

He doesn't strike guys out, and he's given up too many hits and walks over his entire career to be considered "a beast". His K rate has actually decreased with age, going from 11.9, to 7.2, to 6.8, to 6.6, to 5.9, to his current (and small sample sized) 2.3. His current K/BB ratio is 0.50. He has a career 1.54 in the minors. Among all pitchers in the majors right now, that would seat him as the 294th best K/BB ratio in baseball. His actual MLB K/BB ratio seats him at 383rd, putting him such great company as Dan Wheeler, Jeremy Guthrie, and Mark Melancon.

 

On top of that he's sporting a super awesome and unsustainable .208 BABIP against, while Fangraphs has his FIP and xFIP sitting at 4.86 and 4.99.

 

Unless your idea of "a beast" is an oversized dachshund with explosive diarrhea, refrain from calling subpar relievers "a beast".

[ConstableRabbit]

Unless your idea of "a beast" is an oversized dachshund with explosive diarrhea,

:-s :lol:

[Guest]

I don't know how many of these guys would be able to be big league closers, but we have our share of intriguing relievers on the farm

AAA

Jeff Beliveau 2.45 ERA 1.09 WHIP 14.2 IP 5/12 BB/K

Blake Parker 0.96 ERA 0.75 WHIP 9.1 IP 3/6 BB/K

Scott Maine AAA 1.43 ERA .632 WHIP 6.1 IP 2/5 BB/K

big league line: 1.59 ERA .529 WHIP 5.2 IP 2/10 BB/K

 

AA+AAA

Frank Batista 0.00 ERA .76 11.1 IP WHIP 2/12 BB/K

 

AA

Alberto Cabrera 2.13 ERA 0.87 WHIP 12.2 IP 4/14 BB/K

Kevin Rhoderick 1.62 .91 WHIP 11.0 3/12 BB/K

Marcus Hatley 3.86 1.11 WHIP 11.2 3/15 BB/K

 

A+/AA

Casey Harman 1.88 ERA .977 WHIP 14.2 IP 3/11 BB/K, although AA hasn't been so kind to him.

 

A/A+/AA

Scott Weisman 1.88 ERA .977 WHIP 14.1 IP 2/10 BB/K

 

A+

Kyler Burke 1.71 ERA 1.048 WHIP 21 IP 4/17 BB/K

 

Other interesting options are McNutt, who's durability is in question and Jay Jackson who could re-invent himself before being given up upon.

 

The trouble calling these guys up is that our middle relievers has been mostly productive, and the trouble has been Wood and Marmol. Castillo is a candidate for a phantom injury but there's really nobody else deserving of demotion.

 

Of the more immediate names (that is, guys pitching in the pen, and not guys who could be moved there), I tend to think Cabrera/Hatley, with big time fastball/slider combos, are the only two with solid closing potential. Neither seems likely to be called up anytime soon. Batista/Rhoderick feel more like middle reliever/setup types. Zych could be a thought if he tightens things up. Weismann had closing experience at, um, Clemson?, but his stuff profiles more as a middle reliever, IMO. Parker seems more of a middle relief/setup mode as well.

 

Agreed. Cabrera's got the best stuff of all relievers in the system (including the bigs) and he actually gets strikeouts unlike Dolis. Zych obviously needs a lot of work on that slider to be anything more than a middle reliever.

 

Yeah, Weismann closed at Clemson.

[Soul]

Well had you said that everything would probably be fine...

 

He tried to say something positive about one of our players. Flame him!

[Bull]

Marmol has pretty much always gone to the slider when he needs a strike. He threw 4 fastballs yesterday, three balls and Bruce's single. Hard to be upset that he didn't throw more of them when the alternative was the slider(4 strikes, 9 balls, Phillips' ground ball).

This.

I don't see where people are saying he's lost something on the fastball. It has little or nothing to do with his fastball. His slider has always been his best pitch. His ability to throw it for strikes in any count was what made him great. Once set up he could throw it away out of the zone and get even great hitters to flail at it. This year especially it doesn't have the movement it did and he can't locate it because of the lack of movement. It doesn't tail into the zone for called strikes and it stay in the hitting zone when he's trying to get the swing and miss, making it very hittable. The thread title says it all.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Marmol has pretty much always gone to the slider when he needs a strike. He threw 4 fastballs yesterday, three balls and Bruce's single. Hard to be upset that he didn't throw more of them when the alternative was the slider(4 strikes, 9 balls, Phillips' ground ball).

This.

I don't see where people are saying he's lost something on the fastball. It has little or nothing to do with his fastball. His slider has always been his best pitch. His ability to throw it for strikes in any count was what made him great. Once set up he could throw it away out of the zone and get even great hitters to flail at it. This year especially it doesn't have the movement it did and he can't locate it because of the lack of movement. It doesn't tail into the zone for called strikes and it stay in the hitting zone when he's trying to get the swing and miss, making it very hittable. The thread title says it all.

 

The thing us though, that he didn't consistantly throw it for strikes, but it was so nasty that hitters used to flail away at the it and look foolish, and more often than not it ended up well out of the zone. As hitters and coaches picked up on that, they were more inclined to keep the bat on their should knowing that they had a pretty good chance of either getting a free pass or inducing a meatball.

[Benchwarmer]

So where's the disconnect? Is Soto looking at the bench, they're calling for a fastball. Soto calls for a fastball and Marmol is shaking him off? Or is Soto calling for a slider and Marmol's OK with that.

[Guest]

So where's the disconnect? Is Soto looking at the bench, they're calling for a fastball. Soto calls for a fastball and Marmol is shaking him off? Or is Soto calling for a slider and Marmol's OK with that.

 

From what I've read, it's more of the latter. They're not happy at Soto for not calling the fastball and they're not happy with Marmol for not demanding it called more. They say it falls more on Marmol because he's the one ultimately saying yes and throwing the pitch.

[Clem Fandango]

Well had you said that everything would probably be fine...

 

He tried to say something positive about one of our players. Flame him!

 

Yeah well people who make definitive statements based on unfounded bias is a pet peeve. Sue me.

[Bull]

Marmol has pretty much always gone to the slider when he needs a strike. He threw 4 fastballs yesterday, three balls and Bruce's single. Hard to be upset that he didn't throw more of them when the alternative was the slider(4 strikes, 9 balls, Phillips' ground ball).

This.

I don't see where people are saying he's lost something on the fastball. It has little or nothing to do with his fastball. His slider has always been his best pitch. His ability to throw it for strikes in any count was what made him great. Once set up he could throw it away out of the zone and get even great hitters to flail at it. This year especially it doesn't have the movement it did and he can't locate it because of the lack of movement. It doesn't tail into the zone for called strikes and it stay in the hitting zone when he's trying to get the swing and miss, making it very hittable. The thread title says it all.

 

The thing us though, that he didn't consistantly throw it for strikes, but it was so nasty that hitters used to flail away at the it and look foolish, and more often than not it ended up well out of the zone. As hitters and coaches picked up on that, they were more inclined to keep the bat on their should knowing that they had a pretty good chance of either getting a free pass or inducing a meatball.

I disagree. A couple years ago he could throw it for strikes and get k's looking just as well as getting guys to flail at it out of the zone. When I get to my computer, I'll have to look for some data.

[Soul]

Well had you said that everything would probably be fine...

 

He tried to say something positive about one of our players. Flame him!

 

Yeah well people who make definitive statements based on unfounded bias is a pet peeve. Sue me.

 

His statement read more like a general well-wish for the guy. It's not like "beast" is a column on a player's stat sheet.

[Clem Fandango]

Well had you said that everything would probably be fine...

 

He tried to say something positive about one of our players. Flame him!

 

Yeah well people who make definitive statements based on unfounded bias is a pet peeve. Sue me.

 

His statement read more like a general well-wish for the guy. It's not like "beast" is a column on a player's stat sheet.

 

It is in Milwaukee

[Bull]

according to this Marmol used to get the most called strikes of anyone in baseball. he had BOTH a high swinging strike rate and the lowest z-swing rate (swings at pitches in the zone i.e called strikes) in baseball. This confirms what I remembered: the slider would start out headed at the batter and end up in the zone for a called strike or start out in the zone and end up low and away for a swinging strike. Lack of movement makes the former a ball inside and the latter very hittable. The lack of a decent fastball leaves him nothing to fall back on.

[Little Slide Rooter]

So now that he is n fact broken, who will be brought in to take his place? The obvious choice is Maine, who's already been up and successful. I sure would like to see Cabrera though.

[El Duderino]

So now that he is n fact broken, who will be brought in to take his place? The obvious choice is Maine, who's already been up and successful. I sure would like to see Cabrera though.

 

Maine no doubt.

[champaignchris]

So, is he hurt or is he "hurt?"

[EightyTwo]

I imagine he's hurt in the same way that Mike Remlinger hurt his pinkie in a chair in the clubhouse long ago.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Yuck to Casey Coleman, but it makes sense that after the beating the pen took last night that they'd call on a guy capable of long inning duty if necessary.