Dempster Traded to Texas for 3B Villanueva & RHP Hendricks

[Exile on Waveland]

And most people knew that fielding a competitive team this year was going to be a stretch even if the Cubs went "all in" to the FA market. Some people are so short sighted that they think the "dual fronts" approach had to apply from day one to not be a lie. I don't think those people were being honest with themselves regarding the state of the team after last season. The dual fronts spiel was about their overall philosophy, but there was little that could be done to make the 2012 team a contender, but there was a lot to be done to build the foundation.

 

This is pretty much a red herring. Signing quality players to mulit-year deals is a form of building for the future; and would not have prevented the dual fronts. Even if this team could not have competed in 2012, signing a player or two last offseason, coupled with a player or two this offseason, certainly could have led to a contender next season. For example, signing one major free agent each offseason:

 

C-Castillo/Clevenger

1B-Rizzo

2B-Barney

3B-?

SS-Castro

LF-Soriano

CF-Upton

RF-DeJesus

 

1-Darvish

2-Garza

3-Samardzija

4-Wood

5-Maholm/Liriano/etc

 

I think that team would be pretty close to competing for the division and without mortgaging the future. Instead, the front office punted this year and has all but punted next year. That was their decision, and it made a lie of the "preciousness" of each season.

 

You just said they can sign free agents along the way, even if the team can't contend in a given year. What makes you so sure they won't add a free agent or two this offseason who can be a long term piece despite the overwhelming likelihood that the team won't be very good?

 

There have been media reports basically saying that they don't intend to spend, and I can read between the lines (trying to trade Garza, trading Maholm, are good indications that they are punting next year too). Regardless, even if I'm wrong and they do sign free agents this offseason -- and, man, I sure hope I'm wrong and they do -- considering my entire thesis was an admission it would take two years of free agency, they still punted on next year. Unless you think they're going to go crazy spending, which I certainly don't think there is any reason, whatsoever, to believe that will happen.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

Theo did what really needed to be done. He evaluated the mess he was inheriting, and determined that based on who was available in free agency last offseason and how those players would have cohabitated with what was already in-house

 

By doing it his own way, he's setting up success with the players he finds value in rather than gambling that the guys he added in free agency blend in well with the guys Jim Hendry found value in.

 

No idea what either of these things mean.

[Backtobanks]

Let me get back to you in 2015 about that Anthony Rizzo trade.

 

Obviously I'm talking about all of the 19-21 year olds that are in A ball or below.

 

Like whom, exactly?

 

Villanueva, Torreyes, Soler, Almora, etc.

[C.C.]

 

Theo did what really needed to be done. He evaluated the mess he was inheriting, and determined that based on who was available in free agency last offseason and how those players would have cohabitated with what was already in-house

 

By doing it his own way, he's setting up success with the players he finds value in rather than gambling that the guys he added in free agency blend in well with the guys Jim Hendry found value in.

 

No idea what either of these things mean.

 

Some players don't blend well.

[Guest]

 

Theo did what really needed to be done. He evaluated the mess he was inheriting, and determined that based on who was available in free agency last offseason and how those players would have cohabitated with what was already in-house

 

By doing it his own way, he's setting up success with the players he finds value in rather than gambling that the guys he added in free agency blend in well with the guys Jim Hendry found value in.

 

No idea what either of these things mean.

 

Some players don't blend well.

 

It means Theo elected to start from scratch instead of trying to generate success with the mess Hendry left behind.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

Theo did what really needed to be done. He evaluated the mess he was inheriting, and determined that based on who was available in free agency last offseason and how those players would have cohabitated with what was already in-house

 

By doing it his own way, he's setting up success with the players he finds value in rather than gambling that the guys he added in free agency blend in well with the guys Jim Hendry found value in.

 

No idea what either of these things mean.

 

Some players don't blend well.

 

It means Theo elected to start from scratch instead of trying to generate success with the mess Hendry left behind.

 

So we won't see true success until everyone that was with the organization in 2011 is purged.

[C.C.]

So he's creating a expansion team.

[dew1679666265]

I'm sure he won't be taking pride in his first season record with the Cubs, but I imagine by doing it the way he did, his chance of sustained success for a long period of time will far outweigh basically doing the same thing Jim Hendry was already doing.

 

Because obviously the only two options available were a video game style rebuild or to do things exactly the way Hendry did them.

[C.C.]

I hate the term starting from scratch with a major market team. Just sounds so low market.

[Gilby]

No one is actually upset Theo didn't sign Fielder....are they?

 

Wilson wasn't an option, he took less money to go to California. They tried for Darvish and Cespedes but didn't get them. At that point, there was no reason to try to turn this team into a contender. If we go into 2015 still rebuilding, I'll be right there with you questioning how they are going about things, but tanking this season was absolutely necessary.

[Guest]

I would have gone about things differently, but the only things I'm really disappointed in are that they didn't get Cespedes or Darvish.

[mookie]

Cespedes is the only woulda shoulda coulda moment for me personally. I still feel the monies invested in Darvish will start to look bad as soon as next season.

[Exile on Waveland]

They tried for Darvish and Cespedes but didn't get them.

 

Awww . . . participation ribbons all around!

 

Flippance aside, I would dispute if they legitimately tried with Darvish (I think the one rumor of the Cubs bid was like $17 million? C'mon now.). Regardless, even if they tried, they failed. It's their job to succeed.

 

And, especially for Cespedes since the bidding was not blind, this was not a situation where they tried to trade Dempster to Atlanta and it didn't work out for reasons out of their control. It was a situation where all they had to do was spend. If they had chosen to spend, they'd have a twenty-six year old outfielder with a 146 OPS+ and 1.4 WAR (dragged down by a -1.5 dWAR). Considering the overall lack of talent in the organization, especially at that time, I'd sure like to have such player.

[Guest]

They tried for Darvish and Cespedes but didn't get them.

 

Awww . . . participation ribbons all around!

 

Flippance aside, I would dispute if they legitimately tried with Darvish (I think the one rumor of the Cubs bid was like $17 million? C'mon now.). Regardless, even if they tried, they failed. It's their job to succeed.

 

And, especially for Cespedes since the bidding was not blind, this was not a situation where they tried to trade Dempster to Atlanta and it didn't work out for reasons out of their control. It was a situation where all they had to do was spend. If they had chosen to spend, they'd have a twenty-six year old outfielder with a 146 OPS+ and 1.4 WAR (dragged down by a -1.5 dWAR). Considering the overall lack of talent in the organization, especially at that time, I'd sure like to have such player.

 

 

Whatever it was (can't remember off the top of my head aside from the fact that it was well under the Rangers), it was the second highest bid.

[Exile on Waveland]

They tried for Darvish and Cespedes but didn't get them.

 

Awww . . . participation ribbons all around!

 

Flippance aside, I would dispute if they legitimately tried with Darvish (I think the one rumor of the Cubs bid was like $17 million? C'mon now.). Regardless, even if they tried, they failed. It's their job to succeed.

 

And, especially for Cespedes since the bidding was not blind, this was not a situation where they tried to trade Dempster to Atlanta and it didn't work out for reasons out of their control. It was a situation where all they had to do was spend. If they had chosen to spend, they'd have a twenty-six year old outfielder with a 146 OPS+ and 1.4 WAR (dragged down by a -1.5 dWAR). Considering the overall lack of talent in the organization, especially at that time, I'd sure like to have such player.

 

 

Whatever it was (can't remember off the top of my head aside from the fact that it was well under the Rangers), it was the second highest bid.

 

So we'll give them a second-place ribbon.

[Shilzzz]

after the matsuzaka burn i can't be mad at not going gangbusters for darvish

[Gilby]

They tried for Darvish and Cespedes but didn't get them.

 

Awww . . . participation ribbons all around!

 

Flippance aside, I would dispute if they legitimately tried with Darvish (I think the one rumor of the Cubs bid was like $17 million? C'mon now.). Regardless, even if they tried, they failed. It's their job to succeed.

 

And, especially for Cespedes since the bidding was not blind, this was not a situation where they tried to trade Dempster to Atlanta and it didn't work out for reasons out of their control. It was a situation where all they had to do was spend. If they had chosen to spend, they'd have a twenty-six year old outfielder with a 146 OPS+ and 1.4 WAR (dragged down by a -1.5 dWAR). Considering the overall lack of talent in the organization, especially at that time, I'd sure like to have such player.

 

Apparently the Rangers were the only team over 20 million. I would bet Theo learned from the Dice K situation how much money such a star brings in and the amount it makes sense to post.

 

And if you believe Cespedes took the A's offer as soon as they offered 4 years without coming back to the Cubs, then there was some bad luck involved.

[Exile on Waveland]

after the matsuzaka burn i can't be mad at not going gangbusters for darvish

 

That's fine; I think there definitely is an argument to be made that bidding highly for Darvish was unwise and/or that he won't be worth the money even now. I just think it strains credulity to believe the Cubs' bid was serious (whether it was the second highest or not, I really don't think anyone truly believed $17 million would win the bidding).

[SouthSideRyan]

 

That's fine; I think there definitely is an argument to be made that bidding highly for Darvish was unwise and/or that he won't be worth the money even now. I just think it strains credulity to believe the Cubs' bid was serious (whether it was the second highest or not, I really don't think anyone truly believed $17 million would win the bidding).

 

That doesn't make any sense. You think every team that bid besides the Rangers was just [expletive] around?

[Exile on Waveland]

 

That's fine; I think there definitely is an argument to be made that bidding highly for Darvish was unwise and/or that he won't be worth the money even now. I just think it strains credulity to believe the Cubs' bid was serious (whether it was the second highest or not, I really don't think anyone truly believed $17 million would win the bidding).

 

That doesn't make any sense. You think every team that bid besides the Rangers was just [expletive] around?

 

It's not an either-or proposition. There's a big difference between messing around and making a bid because there's no harm in doing so while not legitimately thinking you're going to win. The front office likely decided that Darvish was worth no more than a $17 million bid, so that's what they bid. But that decision did not require the belief that a $17 million bid would win. I suspect that they hoped they would win at $17 million, but never thought they would. If so, that leaves little interpretation other than that they did not *really* try.

 

Edit: Further, I think my inferences about the Darvish bid are more than supported by the circumstantial evidence. Management eschewed spending to collect (expensive) major league talent last year, has worked diligently to trade major league talent this season, and reportedly will do both again this offseason. Why would Darvish be the one exception?

 

Obviously everything about the Darvish bidding, other than the Rangers bid, is mere speculation.

[davell]

I really think our FO sees an extra year or two of very high picks and high IFA budgets will come in much handier than buying a few pieces here and there that may be leaving their primes by the time you're ready to contend and keep you from adding the real impact guys from the draft and IFA in the meantime. There's going to be a time, probably heading into 2014, that we see a complete 180 and things shift in a fun as hell way for us. They've been active as hell in doing the teardown, it's going to be the same, when they start the buildup.

[dew1679666265]

And if you believe Cespedes took the A's offer as soon as they offered 4 years without coming back to the Cubs, then there was some bad luck involved.

 

I just can't believe it actually went down this way. Cespedes didn't show a particular preference for Oakland during the process and even said he expected he'd end up with the Cubs and didn't seem to mind that prospect. It's really hard to believe that a free agent who didn't have a strong preference in where he played just decided he'd ignore the chance for more money and didn't bother to give the Cubs a chance to respond.

 

It's far more realistic to think that Cespedes' camp gave the Cubs and As a chance to make a final bid, the As came down to 4 years and the Cubs would not. Thus, Cespedes chose the better option for him.

[Backtobanks]

 

That's fine; I think there definitely is an argument to be made that bidding highly for Darvish was unwise and/or that he won't be worth the money even now. I just think it strains credulity to believe the Cubs' bid was serious (whether it was the second highest or not, I really don't think anyone truly believed $17 million would win the bidding).

 

That doesn't make any sense. You think every team that bid besides the Rangers was just [expletive] around?

 

Every article I saw before the bidding thought that the winning bid would be in the $48 - $50 million range, so unless you were going to bid somewhere near that you were just [expletive] around.

[davell]

 

That's fine; I think there definitely is an argument to be made that bidding highly for Darvish was unwise and/or that he won't be worth the money even now. I just think it strains credulity to believe the Cubs' bid was serious (whether it was the second highest or not, I really don't think anyone truly believed $17 million would win the bidding).

 

That doesn't make any sense. You think every team that bid besides the Rangers was just [expletive] around?

 

Every article I saw before the bidding thought that the winning bid would be in the $48 - $50 million range, so unless you were going to bid somewhere near that you were just [expletive] around.

 

Because the Rangers obviously told everyone that this is what we're bidding and we want you to come outbid us for him.

[Guest]

 

That's fine; I think there definitely is an argument to be made that bidding highly for Darvish was unwise and/or that he won't be worth the money even now. I just think it strains credulity to believe the Cubs' bid was serious (whether it was the second highest or not, I really don't think anyone truly believed $17 million would win the bidding).

 

That doesn't make any sense. You think every team that bid besides the Rangers was just [expletive] around?

 

Every article I saw before the bidding thought that the winning bid would be in the $48 - $50 million range, so unless you were going to bid somewhere near that you were just [expletive] around.

 

Apparently, the only team that got that memo was the Rangers. Sucks for them. If only they had known everyone else was just [expletive] around.