When do the Angels start to worry about the Pujols contract?

[DivineBovine]

OK, sample size. I get it. OPS is hovering around .600 in 70+ AB's. I'm sure he's adjusting to a new team, new league, pressing. But damn. He is absolutely horrible.

 

I'm sure he will certainly get better and finish the season with decent numbers. But decent is just not good enough in year 1 of a 10 year deal.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

If I were them I'd be hanging on every AB. That's a lot of money and time for him to waste.

[TruffleShuffle]

they probably should have started to worry about it roughly 5 seconds after he signed the offer.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=16628

[Sammy Sofa]

Never.

[XZero771679666304]

they probably should have started to worry about it roughly 5 seconds after he signed the offer.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=16628

 

Yeah, his approach at the plate has gone in the crapper. You used to never see Albert expand his zone, now he does it with regularity. There is the possibility that he is pressing so far this season because of the contract, but that still doesn't explain last season.

 

His approach is a huge part of what has made Pujols great and if what we have seen from him since the beginning of last year is indicative of what he has become, the Angels are going to wear that contract. This isn't bad luck, he's simply not the same player at the plate right now.

[Little Slide Rooter]

When he tests positive for every PED on the market and turns out to be a 47 year old Venezuelan warlord wanted on multiple counts of genocide, torture, and piracy.

[SouthSideRyan]

Pujols had a terrible start to last year. Then from June on he OPSd ~1.000. I'd probably wait until he's completed at least 1/10 of his contract before I got worried.

 

Oh, then he OPSd 1.155 in the playoffs.

[dew1679666265]

Pujols had a terrible start to last year. Then from June on he OPSd 1.000. I'd probably wait until he's completed at least 1/10 of his contract before I got worried.

 

That's my feeling as well. If you were confident enough in his sustained ability in the offseason, you shouldn't feel any differently right now.

[wade]

Angels management will probably get over it when Pujols passes A-Rod on the all-time home run list.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Pujols had a terrible start to last year. Then from June on he OPSd 1.000. I'd probably wait until he's completed at least 1/10 of his contract before I got worried.

 

That's my feeling as well. If you were confident enough in his sustained ability in the offseason, you shouldn't feel any differently right now.

 

I'm only a role player on this board, and bragging is not cool, but I just wanted to point out that I tried to tell everyone we didn't want Pujols. Not that any of you still agree, but I figured I'd brag now and let you have a chance to rip on me later if Pujols wins an MVP.

 

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58762&start=1350

 

Start of page 55 of the thread. I was on fire.

 

Just remember that when anyone complains that we didn't spend any money this offseason, a large number of people here wanted us to spend it on Pujols. If by the end of this season you would rather we not have signed Pujols, it's too late. You have him on the books for $30 million for the next seven to 10 years.

[KingCubsFan]

Pujols had a terrible start to last year. Then from June on he OPSd ~1.000. I'd probably wait until he's completed at least 1/10 of his contract before I got worried.

 

Oh, then he OPSd 1.155 in the playoffs.

He hit 7 HR's last April and had a .794 OPS. That's horrible by Pujols' standards. This month has been horrible by any standard. I wouldn't be worried yet if I were the Angels, but the lack of power is really surprising.

[Sammy Sofa]

they probably should have started to worry about it roughly 5 seconds after he signed the offer.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=16628

 

Yeah, his approach at the plate has gone in the crapper. You used to never see Albert expand his zone, now he does it with regularity. There is the possibility that he is pressing so far this season because of the contract, but that still doesn't explain last season.

 

His approach is a huge part of what has made Pujols great and if what we have seen from him since the beginning of last year is indicative of what he has become, the Angels are going to wear that contract. This isn't bad luck, he's simply not the same player at the plate right now.

 

You guys are reading that entire article, right? It's point IS that he's likely a different player, but not that that definitely means he's a bad one. I mean, the author even goes out of his way to end it like this:

 

The Angels signed Albert Pujols for 10 years because even the decline phase of a .328/.420/.617 hitter should be pretty good. It turns out they’re getting a different hitter entirely. Probably a great hitter, maybe still the best hitter, and if there's anything you take from this piece, I really hope it's not that Albert Pujols is anything less than awesome still. He is awesome still, and I hate all of you who quit reading way up there and think that I'm giving up on Pujols. But he's a different hitter. Are his eyes getting worse? Are his reactions getting worse? Is he guessing at pitches to compensate for slowed bat speed? Is he in his own head? Is this related to his wrist injury last June, the one he came back from with almost miraculous speed? Or is it all nothing, or even part of Pujols' evolution as a hitter, and will the next seven or eight years at least work out beautifully for the Angels? Quite possibly! But, man. Ten years.

[TruffleShuffle]

they probably should have started to worry about it roughly 5 seconds after he signed the offer.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=16628

 

Yeah, his approach at the plate has gone in the crapper. You used to never see Albert expand his zone, now he does it with regularity. There is the possibility that he is pressing so far this season because of the contract, but that still doesn't explain last season.

 

His approach is a huge part of what has made Pujols great and if what we have seen from him since the beginning of last year is indicative of what he has become, the Angels are going to wear that contract. This isn't bad luck, he's simply not the same player at the plate right now.

 

You guys are reading that entire article, right? It's point IS that he's likely a different player, but not that that definitely means he's a bad one. I mean, the author even goes out of his way to end it like this:

 

The Angels signed Albert Pujols for 10 years because even the decline phase of a .328/.420/.617 hitter should be pretty good. It turns out they’re getting a different hitter entirely. Probably a great hitter, maybe still the best hitter, and if there's anything you take from this piece, I really hope it's not that Albert Pujols is anything less than awesome still. He is awesome still, and I hate all of you who quit reading way up there and think that I'm giving up on Pujols. But he's a different hitter. Are his eyes getting worse? Are his reactions getting worse? Is he guessing at pitches to compensate for slowed bat speed? Is he in his own head? Is this related to his wrist injury last June, the one he came back from with almost miraculous speed? Or is it all nothing, or even part of Pujols' evolution as a hitter, and will the next seven or eight years at least work out beautifully for the Angels? Quite possibly! But, man. Ten years.

 

that does little to refute my stance that they should have worried about it roughly five seconds after he agreed to their offer. he's already past his prime, he'll be 42 when the deal ends, his walk rate nosedived and he's coming off his worst season in about a decade. there are plenty of reasons for concern.

[Sammy Sofa]

There's reasons for concern, but as the article points out if anyone can adjust changes like this it's arguably the best hitter of all time. It's not like the guy wasn't able to effectively compensate last year; why would he just suddenly fall off of a cliff after succeeding despite these changes last season?

[Tracer Bullet]

There's reasons for concern, but as the article points out if anyone can adjust changes like this it's arguably the best hitter of all time. It's not like the guy wasn't able to effectively compensate last year; why would he just suddenly fall off of a cliff after succeeding despite these changes last season?

 

Does he have to fall of a cliff for this to be a terrible contract? He doesn't have to pull a soriano. If he's merely above average for his position for 6-8 years of the contract, was it a bad deal?

[Formerly Snayke]

There should be less worry about how he's hitting and more worry about his approach. His batted ball data looks really, really good. With as many line drives as he's hitting his average should be well over .300. No problems there.

 

The four unintentional walks and the willingness to swing at so many pitches out of the zone is concerning.

[Clem Fandango]

Arte Moreno asking Jerry Dipito that same question:

 

[TruffleShuffle]

There's reasons for concern, but as the article points out if anyone can adjust changes like this it's arguably the best hitter of all time. It's not like the guy wasn't able to effectively compensate last year; why would he just suddenly fall off of a cliff after succeeding despite these changes last season?

 

Does he have to fall of a cliff for this to be a terrible contract? He doesn't have to pull a soriano. If he's merely above average for his position for 6-8 years of the contract, was it a bad deal?

 

yeah, if he steadily regresses from very good to good to mediocre to lousy during the life of the contract, maybe producing like a superstar for a year or two, that's not a good signing. $25m per year is superstar money. dude has to be one of the five or so best players in the game during the next decade for the angels to get the production they're paying for.

[SouthSideRyan]

There are benefits to having an Albert Pujols signed by your franchise beyond what he produces on the field.

[Sammy Sofa]

There's reasons for concern, but as the article points out if anyone can adjust changes like this it's arguably the best hitter of all time. It's not like the guy wasn't able to effectively compensate last year; why would he just suddenly fall off of a cliff after succeeding despite these changes last season?

 

Does he have to fall of a cliff for this to be a terrible contract? He doesn't have to pull a soriano. If he's merely above average for his position for 6-8 years of the contract, was it a bad deal?

 

For it to be terrible? Yes. I mean, you can declare this to be a "bad deal" pretty much regardless of what he actually puts up because it was essentially impossible for him to be worth all of the money/years regardless of this slow start. The Angels obviously would have been aware of that. Singing him goes beyond just stacking his performance vs. his contract.

[Tracer Bullet]

There are benefits to having an Albert Pujols signed by your franchise beyond what he produces on the field.

 

Of course. And those factors were likely considered in negotiations. It's not as if the Angels said "hey and if he turns out to be a league average first baseman, no sweat bc he's a great marketing piece."

[Tracer Bullet]

There's reasons for concern, but as the article points out if anyone can adjust changes like this it's arguably the best hitter of all time. It's not like the guy wasn't able to effectively compensate last year; why would he just suddenly fall off of a cliff after succeeding despite these changes last season?

 

Does he have to fall of a cliff for this to be a terrible contract? He doesn't have to pull a soriano. If he's merely above average for his position for 6-8 years of the contract, was it a bad deal?

 

For it to be terrible? Yes. I mean, you can declare this to be a "bad deal" pretty much regardless of what he actually puts up because it was essentially impossible for him to be worth all of the money/years regardless of this slow start. The Angels obviously would have been aware of that. Singing him goes beyond just stacking his performance vs. his contract.

 

Right. But the expectation is he's at least very good from the start. I don't think the angels are banking on him being worth $25m in 10 years.

 

And the non-performance factors were considered by the team during negotiations, as I just said. They aren't a hedge against his bad play.

[Sammy Sofa]

There's reasons for concern, but as the article points out if anyone can adjust changes like this it's arguably the best hitter of all time. It's not like the guy wasn't able to effectively compensate last year; why would he just suddenly fall off of a cliff after succeeding despite these changes last season?

 

Does he have to fall of a cliff for this to be a terrible contract? He doesn't have to pull a soriano. If he's merely above average for his position for 6-8 years of the contract, was it a bad deal?

 

For it to be terrible? Yes. I mean, you can declare this to be a "bad deal" pretty much regardless of what he actually puts up because it was essentially impossible for him to be worth all of the money/years regardless of this slow start. The Angels obviously would have been aware of that. Singing him goes beyond just stacking his performance vs. his contract.

 

Right. But the expectation is he's at least very good from the start. I don't think the angels are banking on him being worth $25m in 10 years.

 

Well, yeah, but we're still way too early to do anything like writing this off as a bust. As last year showed, a "different" Pujols can still be a very, very productive Pujols.

[imb]

Great, he should bounce back this year and be pretty good. There's 9 other years on this contract. They're going to end up regretting it very soon

[Tracer Bullet]

There's reasons for concern, but as the article points out if anyone can adjust changes like this it's arguably the best hitter of all time. It's not like the guy wasn't able to effectively compensate last year; why would he just suddenly fall off of a cliff after succeeding despite these changes last season?

 

Does he have to fall of a cliff for this to be a terrible contract? He doesn't have to pull a soriano. If he's merely above average for his position for 6-8 years of the contract, was it a bad deal?

 

For it to be terrible? Yes. I mean, you can declare this to be a "bad deal" pretty much regardless of what he actually puts up because it was essentially impossible for him to be worth all of the money/years regardless of this slow start. The Angels obviously would have been aware of that. Singing him goes beyond just stacking his performance vs. his contract.

 

Right. But the expectation is he's at least very good from the start. I don't think the angels are banking on him being worth $25m in 10 years.

 

Well, yeah, but we're still way too early to do anything like writing this off as a bust. As last year showed, a "different" Pujols can still be a very, very productive Pujols.

 

I'm not saying its a bust. I'm agreeing with the earlier post that they should be worried now if they weren't already.