Trading Marlon Byrd

[WrigleyField 22]

All we have to do to match 07/08 success is make the playoffs. We can still do that by 2013. The rest of this off season could change that, but no reason to start punting 2013 also.

[Elrhino]

The Rangers should be interested. They're looking to minimize Hamilton's injury risk by moving him to a corner outfield spot full time and they need a short term bridge player until Martin is ready. They loved Byrd when he was there. Edited December 30, 2011 by Elrhino

[jersey cubs fan]

All we have to do to match 07/08 success is make the playoffs. We can still do that by 2013. The rest of this off season could change that, but no reason to start punting 2013 also.

 

There was never any reason to punt 2012.

[davell]

Trade Garza for prospects. Trade Byrd for a DeRosa type package. Puts payroll around 90. Sign Prince for 6/150. 1st year at 15. Opt out after year 4. Sign Edwin Jackson 3/27. 1st year at 7. Sign Crisp for 2/8. Sign Soler for 5/25. Spend another 5 mill on IFA. That's a tad under 130 for payroll, counting IFA. Hell, we should still have 10ish mill or so left over. Not perfect obviously, but it replenishes the system very solidly. It adds a lesser pitcher than Garza, but a solid pitcher at least. Gives you the middle of the order bat we're sorely lacking. The longer Fielder and Jackson stay on the market, the lower their price gets, as far as I'm concerned. Hell, in our division, that team could compete in 2012, if Stewart bounces back, get some help from Brett by midseason and a relatively healthy year out of the staff.

[Backtobanks]

All we have to do to match 07/08 success is make the playoffs. We can still do that by 2013. The rest of this off season could change that, but no reason to start punting 2013 also.

 

Who can we count on in 2013? Assuming Garza, Byrd, and Marmol are traded at some point, we will have Castro, Dejesus, Soto (possibly), Shark, Cashner, Russell (possibly) and T. Wood.

1B - ?, 2B - Barney (adequate), SS- Castro, 3B - Stewart (?), OF - Soriano, Dejesus, Jackson (?), Sczur (?), Sappelt (?), C- Soto/Castillo/Clevenger, Rotation - Wood, Wells (possibly), McNutt (?), prospect from Garza trade (?), FA/Prospect (?), Bullpen- Russell (possibly), Shark, Cashner, and then a lot of prospects (????????).

 

I'm not punting on 2013, but it sure looks like the FO is.

[Backtobanks]

Trade Garza for prospects. Trade Byrd for a DeRosa type package. Puts payroll around 90. Sign Prince for 6/150. 1st year at 15. Opt out after year 4. Sign Edwin Jackson 3/27. 1st year at 7. Sign Crisp for 2/8. Sign Soler for 5/25. Spend another 5 mill on IFA. That's a tad under 130 for payroll, counting IFA. Hell, we should still have 10ish mill or so left over. Not perfect obviously, but it replenishes the system very solidly. It adds a lesser pitcher than Garza, but a solid pitcher at least. Gives you the middle of the order bat we're sorely lacking. The longer Fielder and Jackson stay on the market, the lower their price gets, as far as I'm concerned. Hell, in our division, that team could compete in 2012, if Stewart bounces back, get some help from Brett by midseason and a relatively healthy year out of the staff.

 

I'd love to see some of this happen, but most of it is dreaming instead of what's going to happen.

[Little Slide Rooter]

All we have to do to match 07/08 success is make the playoffs. We can still do that by 2013. The rest of this off season could change that, but no reason to start punting 2013 also.

 

Who can we count on in 2013? Assuming Garza, Byrd, and Marmol are traded at some point, we will have Castro, Dejesus, Soto (possibly), Shark, Cashner, Russell (possibly) and T. Wood.

1B - ?, 2B - Barney (adequate), SS- Castro, 3B - Stewart (?), OF - Soriano, Dejesus, Jackson (?), Sczur (?), Sappelt (?), C- Soto/Castillo/Clevenger, Rotation - Wood, Wells (possibly), McNutt (?), prospect from Garza trade (?), FA/Prospect (?), Bullpen- Russell (possibly), Shark, Cashner, and then a lot of prospects (????????).

 

I'm not punting on 2013, but it sure looks like the FO is.

 

Apparently your crystal ball sees further into the future than mine. Mine hasn't even made it to January yet.

[Conky]

All we have to do to match 07/08 success is make the playoffs. We can still do that by 2013. The rest of this off season could change that, but no reason to start punting 2013 also.

 

Who can we count on in 2013? Assuming Garza, Byrd, and Marmol are traded at some point, we will have Castro, Dejesus, Soto (possibly), Shark, Cashner, Russell (possibly) and T. Wood.

1B - ?, 2B - Barney (adequate), SS- Castro, 3B - Stewart (?), OF - Soriano, Dejesus, Jackson (?), Sczur (?), Sappelt (?), C- Soto/Castillo/Clevenger, Rotation - Wood, Wells (possibly), McNutt (?), prospect from Garza trade (?), FA/Prospect (?), Bullpen- Russell (possibly), Shark, Cashner, and then a lot of prospects (????????).

 

I'm not punting on 2013, but it sure looks like the FO is.

 

Apparently your crystal ball sees further into the future than mine. Mine hasn't even made it to January yet.

 

Reading between the lines, at least he's telling us that there's nothing to worry about with the end of the Mayan calander approaching, so there's that.

[mookie]

Failing to land the somewhat coveted Rizzo, do you think it is possible we swap Byrd with LaRoche? I am not saying I want this to happen, but it would clear the path for Bryce to start the season in the majors and Morse to move back to first.

[El Duderino]

i'd rather have LaHair than LaRoche.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Failing to land the somewhat coveted Rizzo, do you think it is possible we swap Byrd with LaRoche? I am not saying I want this to happen, but it would clear the path for Bryce to start the season in the majors and Morse to move back to first.

 

Doubtful. The name of the game is landing young players, not a 32 1st baseman with a career .267/.337/.478/.815 line.

[treebird]

Failing to land the somewhat coveted Rizzo, do you think it is possible we swap Byrd with LaRoche? I am not saying I want this to happen, but it would clear the path for Bryce to start the season in the majors and Morse to move back to first.

 

Doubtful. The name of the game is landing young players, not a 32 1st baseman with a career .267/.337/.478/.815 line.

 

in fairness if he put up that line next year he'd very possibly be the best offensive player on the team

[davell]

I don't think there's a middle ground for us at 1B. I think our opening day 1B is either Prince or LaHair. If it's LaHair, we'll have Rizzo in Iowa for half a season, better preparing him and trying to let LaHair build some trade value.

[Backtobanks]

All we have to do to match 07/08 success is make the playoffs. We can still do that by 2013. The rest of this off season could change that, but no reason to start punting 2013 also.

 

Who can we count on in 2013? Assuming Garza, Byrd, and Marmol are traded at some point, we will have Castro, Dejesus, Soto (possibly), Shark, Cashner, Russell (possibly) and T. Wood.

1B - ?, 2B - Barney (adequate), SS- Castro, 3B - Stewart (?), OF - Soriano, Dejesus, Jackson (?), Sczur (?), Sappelt (?), C- Soto/Castillo/Clevenger, Rotation - Wood, Wells (possibly), McNutt (?), prospect from Garza trade (?), FA/Prospect (?), Bullpen- Russell (possibly), Shark, Cashner, and then a lot of prospects (????????).

 

I'm not punting on 2013, but it sure looks like the FO is.

 

Apparently your crystal ball sees further into the future than mine. Mine hasn't even made it to January yet.

 

My crystal ball shows that there are a lot of unknowns (?) and holes for 2013 unless Theo & CO. reverse every move they've made since coming here. If yours doesn't show that, maybe you need a new crystal ball.

[Little Slide Rooter]

All we have to do to match 07/08 success is make the playoffs. We can still do that by 2013. The rest of this off season could change that, but no reason to start punting 2013 also.

 

Who can we count on in 2013? Assuming Garza, Byrd, and Marmol are traded at some point, we will have Castro, Dejesus, Soto (possibly), Shark, Cashner, Russell (possibly) and T. Wood.

1B - ?, 2B - Barney (adequate), SS- Castro, 3B - Stewart (?), OF - Soriano, Dejesus, Jackson (?), Sczur (?), Sappelt (?), C- Soto/Castillo/Clevenger, Rotation - Wood, Wells (possibly), McNutt (?), prospect from Garza trade (?), FA/Prospect (?), Bullpen- Russell (possibly), Shark, Cashner, and then a lot of prospects (????????).

 

I'm not punting on 2013, but it sure looks like the FO is.

 

Apparently your crystal ball sees further into the future than mine. Mine hasn't even made it to January yet.

 

My crystal ball shows that there are a lot of unknowns (?) and holes for 2013 unless Theo & CO. reverse every move they've made since coming here. If yours doesn't show that, maybe you need a new crystal ball.

 

It's one thing to give up on '12, which seems to get closer to reality by the day, but we have no idea what's in store for the 14 months before the start of spring training 2013.

[WrigleyField 22]

Well those guys havent been moved yet. If they are I trust its because we don't need them to compete (Marmol, Byrd) or we moved them for a great package, like the marshall deal. If Garza goes it is a lot less likely we are ready for 2013. Most other guys we can replace so if we upgrade organizational strength, all is well. Still, moving Garza could be the right move even if it sets us back a little short term.

[Beer Kaese]

I suppose we can get carried away with the shrinking payroll a bit but there is a method here. The escalating contracts and aging core that was the 07/08 success imploded. It's time to clean house and get the maximum high level minor, potential turnaround and spring training competition to begin to lay the foundation for the next run.

 

The Farm system lacks players with the potential of being special. Trade whatever you have (except Starlin Castro) and fix that problem. Bring in players who are not expensive yet that have the potential of having a good year and, if they do, decide if they fit the plan or flip them for younger and better players near the deadline. Then, make sure you have six starting pitchers on your 40 man roster at the beginning of the season.

 

I haven't felt this good about the Cubs since 2009 and I think they can exceed the success of 07/08 around 14/15.

 

There's no reason it should take that long.

 

We've looking at 12, where we have no chance (realistically). It's unlikely that we have a team, on paper, heading into spring training that most view as a series contender in 13. That puts it at 14/15. It's not to say that the 13 team doesn't exceed expectations it's only to temper expectations of a quick turn. It boils down to this, show me the pitchers.

 

If we trade Garza and get a high ceiling near major league guy (and them some) and we trade Z before he melts down (again) ... show me the pitching and then I'll buy into 13.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't think anyone predicted the cubs to be a likely world series contender by next offseason, regardless of what epstein's plan was. That being said, once you get into the playoffs with a decent team you can still win it all (note: mostly only true for st louis cardinals)

[Little Slide Rooter]

To be fair, the 2012 Cardinals werent much less likely WS winners than the 2011 Giants or The 2003 Marlins. Then theres the 2006 Cardinals and their 83 [expletive] wins. Not to mention the great anomoly that was the 2005 White Sox. How that bunch won 99 games and a World Series is beyond me. Kenny Williams has argueably made as many bad moves as Jim Hendry has but Kenny has that 6 year old World Series trophy to hang his hat on and Hendry has a near miss and 3 choke jobs.

[CubsWin]

All we have to do to match 07/08 success is make the playoffs. We can still do that by 2013. The rest of this off season could change that, but no reason to start punting 2013 also.

 

Who can we count on in 2013? Assuming Garza, Byrd, and Marmol are traded at some point, we will have Castro, Dejesus, Soto (possibly), Shark, Cashner, Russell (possibly) and T. Wood.

1B - ?, 2B - Barney (adequate), SS- Castro, 3B - Stewart (?), OF - Soriano, Dejesus, Jackson (?), Sczur (?), Sappelt (?), C- Soto/Castillo/Clevenger, Rotation - Wood, Wells (possibly), McNutt (?), prospect from Garza trade (?), FA/Prospect (?), Bullpen- Russell (possibly), Shark, Cashner, and then a lot of prospects (????????).

 

I'm not punting on 2013, but it sure looks like the FO is.

Sure, if they didn't make any more trades or signings in the next year, then, yeah...

[CubsWin]

I will admit, I threw Saltwell out there as a lackey without thought to any specific moves. I don't post often, but I did weigh in on Madlock's trade in another thread. He was traded because he demanded more money and then they signed Murcer to more money than Madlock asked for (precursor to the Maddux situation later under Himes). But it also happened in times of poor attendance and getting Murcer was as much a way to potentially increase draw.

Saltwell had little to do with anything in that deal. Wrigley was way old school, as in pre-Jackie Robinson if you get my meaning. He couldn't stand the idea of a black man demanding more money. That was the reason Madlock was traded. It wasn't the money as you correctly pointed out. They agreed to pay Murcer more than Madlock was asking for. It was that Madlock was being "uppity" in the eyes of Philip K. Wrigley.

[The Other One]

I will admit, I threw Saltwell out there as a lackey without thought to any specific moves. I don't post often, but I did weigh in on Madlock's trade in another thread. He was traded because he demanded more money and then they signed Murcer to more money than Madlock asked for (precursor to the Maddux situation later under Himes). But it also happened in times of poor attendance and getting Murcer was as much a way to potentially increase draw.

Saltwell had little to do with anything in that deal. Wrigley was way old school, as in pre-Jackie Robinson if you get my meaning. He couldn't stand the idea of a black man demanding more money. That was the reason Madlock was traded. It wasn't the money as you correctly pointed out. They agreed to pay Murcer more than Madlock was asking for. It was that Madlock was being "uppity" in the eyes of Philip K. Wrigley.

 

I came close to writing what you wrote almost word for word. Being a neighborhood guy who's family was involved in the West side white flight, racism was still front and center in a lot of people's minds at that time. Certainly, the word on the street mirrored what you wrote.

 

I held back saying it though because the perception on the street was still just a perception. Wrigley may have wrote an article praising players like Banks which made him appear to want subservient players. But, outside of that, he was pretty reclusive. Perhaps the Madlock situation all about racism, but I don't think we have facts to state that.

 

It is just as logical that Wrigley viewed baseball as a game. Players (black or white) that demanded more, especially as the stands were emptying out, perhaps just didn't sit right with him.

 

Of course, if I had to bet on it, I'd go with what you wrote.

[dew1679666265]

We've looking at 12, where we have no chance (realistically). It's unlikely that we have a team, on paper, heading into spring training that most view as a series contender in 13. That puts it at 14/15. It's not to say that the 13 team doesn't exceed expectations it's only to temper expectations of a quick turn. It boils down to this, show me the pitchers.

 

If we trade Garza and get a high ceiling near major league guy (and them some) and we trade Z before he melts down (again) ... show me the pitching and then I'll buy into 13.

 

Even if we trade Garza, I think offense is what is going to (likely) keep us from contending in 2013. If we get serious about winning by then, there will most likely be elite FA starting pitchers to bid on. We'll also have the option of bringing back Dempster if he looks like he has a couple years left, or we could wait out Edwin Jackson and try to get him on a team-friendly deal this offseason.

 

While there are plenty of high end, or potential high end, pitching options out there, there's nothing apparent on the offensive side outside of Prince and, depending on your view, Cespedes. We could get lucky and there could be a team offering a young, elite offensive talent for something less than a king's ransom, but barring luck I don't see this offense being all that good by 2013. As the 2010 Giants showed, you don't have to have a great (or even good) offense to make the playoffs and the World Series, but we're going to have to build a really good pitching staff in a short period of time to make up for what is looking to be a pretty pedestrian offense in 2012 and probably 2013 as well.

[Backtobanks]

All we have to do to match 07/08 success is make the playoffs. We can still do that by 2013. The rest of this off season could change that, but no reason to start punting 2013 also.

 

Who can we count on in 2013? Assuming Garza, Byrd, and Marmol are traded at some point, we will have Castro, Dejesus, Soto (possibly), Shark, Cashner, Russell (possibly) and T. Wood.

1B - ?, 2B - Barney (adequate), SS- Castro, 3B - Stewart (?), OF - Soriano, Dejesus, Jackson (?), Sczur (?), Sappelt (?), C- Soto/Castillo/Clevenger, Rotation - Wood, Wells (possibly), McNutt (?), prospect from Garza trade (?), FA/Prospect (?), Bullpen- Russell (possibly), Shark, Cashner, and then a lot of prospects (????????).

 

I'm not punting on 2013, but it sure looks like the FO is.

Sure, if they didn't make any more trades or signings in the next year, then, yeah...

 

They would have to trade many of the prospects that they just acquired or developed because there's nothing left on the roster that's going to get anything in return. As for signings FAs , they would need at least 4 top FAs next year (2 pitchers and 2 position players) to have a real shot. Both of those ideas seem to be the opposite of what Theo wants to do.

[Beer Kaese]

We've looking at 12, where we have no chance (realistically). It's unlikely that we have a team, on paper, heading into spring training that most view as a series contender in 13. That puts it at 14/15. It's not to say that the 13 team doesn't exceed expectations it's only to temper expectations of a quick turn. It boils down to this, show me the pitchers.

 

If we trade Garza and get a high ceiling near major league guy (and them some) and we trade Z before he melts down (again) ... show me the pitching and then I'll buy into 13.

 

Even if we trade Garza, I think offense is what is going to (likely) keep us from contending in 2013. If we get serious about winning by then, there will most likely be elite FA starting pitchers to bid on. We'll also have the option of bringing back Dempster if he looks like he has a couple years left, or we could wait out Edwin Jackson and try to get him on a team-friendly deal this offseason.

 

While there are plenty of high end, or potential high end, pitching options out there, there's nothing apparent on the offensive side outside of Prince and, depending on your view, Cespedes. We could get lucky and there could be a team offering a young, elite offensive talent for something less than a king's ransom, but barring luck I don't see this offense being all that good by 2013. As the 2010 Giants showed, you don't have to have a great (or even good) offense to make the playoffs and the World Series, but we're going to have to build a really good pitching staff in a short period of time to make up for what is looking to be a pretty pedestrian offense in 2012 and probably 2013 as well.

 

Dempster? Are you serious?