Gio to Nationals

[Clem Fandango]

So how good are those guys that the A's got?

 

Rotoworld always has nice summaries, here's what they wrote...

 

Athletics acquired RHP A.J. Cole, LHP Tommy Milone, RHP Brad Peacock and C Derek Norris from the Nationals for LHP Gio Gonzalez.

Cole posted a 4.04 ERA and 108/24 K/BB ratio in 89 innings this past season at the Single-A level. He's raw and has a ways to go in his development, but the 19-year-old right-hander carries the upside of a potential top-end starter. He as a fourth-round pick of the Nationals in 2010.

 

Athletics acquired C Derek Norris, LHP Tommy Milone, RHP Brad Peacock and RHP A.J. Cole from the Nationals for LHP Gio Gonzalez.

A 22-year-old former fourth-round pick, Norris has registered a .403 on-base percentage and an .861 OPS in parts of five minor league seasons. He hasn't made it past Double-A, but the Kansas native projects as a regular major league catcher with potential for strong offensive output. He slugged 20 homers in 104 games at Double-A Harrisburg in 2011.

 

Athletics acquired RHP Brad Peacock, LHP Tommy Milone, C Derek Norris and RHP A.J. Cole from the Nationals for LHP Gio Gonzalez.

Peacock, 23, posted a 2.39 ERA and 177/47 K/BB ratio in 146 2/3 innings this past season between Double-A and Triple-A, becoming one of the most promising young starters in the sport. He eventually climbed all the way to the majors and turned in a 0.75 ERA in 12 innings of work. The A's could view him as an option for the season-opening rotation.

 

Athletics acquired LHP Tommy Milone, RHP Brad Peacock, C Derek Norris and RHP A.J. Cole from the Nationals for LHP Gio Gonzalez.

Milone, a 24-year-old southpaw, registered a sparkling 3.22 ERA and 155/16 K/BB ratio in 148 1/3 innings this past season at Triple-A Syracuse before earning a September callup to the Nats. He's a mature left-hander with great control and could land a spot in the A's 2012 Opening Day rotation.

 

The only one I'm remotely familiar with is Norris. His ability to hit for average has dropped pretty dramatically the past coupe of seasons, but he's got a whole lot of power/patience potential. He's been an OBP machine in the minors. Only hit .210 last year but still put up an OPS over .800, and drew 77 walks in 104 games. He's been trending downwards, though, so I'm not sure how much of that is cause for concern or just growing pains, as he's still only just 22.

[NonProfitCow]

Just because I think it's an interesting comparison.

 

Travis Wood has 3.3 WAR over 208.2 IP in his career, with a 3.75 FIP and a 4.30 xFIP (not shocking for a flyball pitcher in GABP). He's under control for 5 more years.

 

Gio Gonzalez over the last two years has averaged 3.35 WAR in 201.1 IP, with an FIP of 3.71 and xFIP of 3.89. He's under control for 4 more years.

 

The Nationals just gave up a huge haul of prospects to get their guy. The Cubs gave up one year of an elite setup guy, but will also be receiving two additional prospects.

 

Yep. Theo is a bad, bad man

I'll agree, but Walt is also bad, bad at his job. He's made 3 good trades in the last 10 years and 2 were for Scott Rolen.

[davell]

To me, Norris is the 3rd guy in that deal. Cole has top end potential and some say Peacock does as well. Others may say Peacock winds up as a closer, but his progress this past year was tremendous. Millone is a guy who probably tops out upper 80's, but has pinpoint control and is crafty as hell. He'll have a very long career.

[toonsterwu]

So how good are those guys that the A's got?

 

Well ... that's a tougher equation. I love this deal for the A's. Love it. Think it's a better haul than the Latos deal. That said, that's as much a value judgment.

 

I love AJ Cole. Plus fastball, potential plus curve, developing change, strong performance. I know BA had Peacock over him, but I prefer Cole easily. For me, he's easily the prize of the trade. Of the three big pitching trades so far this offseason (Cahill, Latos, Gonzalez), I think you could argue that he's at least the 2nd best talent. There's some ironing out work, but he's not yet 20, throws strikes, and will be ready for A+ next year. I think his ceiling is a legitimate ace level arm.

 

Peacock/Norris are the 2nd/3rd chips in some order. Norris is probably able to stick at catcher, but he won't be anything exceptional behind the dish. At the plate, won't make a ton of contact, but takes his walks and has good raw power.

 

Peacock was the "breakout" guy. Plus fastball, but a bit flat. Good breaking ball. Needs to refine the change. Raw ability is very good. Possible 2 type starter if it all comes together, but I could see him struggle a bit if he can't refine the change. Could be a power pen arm.

 

Milone has, um, an average fastball, plus change, good breaking balls, plus command. Think ... Travis Wood-ish (Wood has slightly better velo on the fastball, but Milone has a better breaking ball and better command/control).

[davell]

I was a fan of dealing with the Yanks, until I truly looked at Toronto's system and what they already have in the majors. Henderson Alvarez. Drabek, Lawrie, Arencibia, Rasmus, and Snider. That's just guys off their major league roster. In the minors, they have D'Arnoud, Gose, Marisnick, Jimenez, Knecht, and Perez as position players. D'Arnoud's untouchable, but Gose and Marisnick are in the same realm, maybe higher than Brett is. Jimenez and Perez are probably better C prospects than what we have anyway. Knecht looks like a solid bet to be a power hitting corner OFer. Pitching-wise, Syndergaard and Nicolino both have top end ability, just a ways away. Hutchison is close to their level as well. McGuire is a damn good bet to be a 3/4 guy. Sanchez has breakout ability as well. Wojciechowski does too. Lots of options here. Pitching is better than what Yanks have to offer and have much,much more of it. Hitting has more depth as well. And again, this isn't even counting the guys they already have brought up.

[toonsterwu]

Eh, I would favor the top end potential of Montero and either Banuelos or Betances over any 1-2 punch the Blue Jays could offer. This is, of course, assuming that either team would be offering our choice of prospects/young talent. I guess I'm far from convinced that all those young guys are going to pan out to be better than Banuelos/Betances.

[davell]

Is Montero even going to be a capable 1B though? If he's not, he's an AL guy his entire career. And I'm not even sure the Yanks would trade him anyway. I like Betances and Banuelos, but it's about all they've got. Romine or Murphy would be averagish 3rd pieces. If you could get the 2 pitchers and Mason Williams, that'd be a damn good haul. My idea though, is it's more likely we could get a 4 or 5 player haul out of Toronto. And with as much upside if Montero isn't included.

[Northside Blues]

Billy Beane's Christmas came early. He finally got his Kevin Youkilis.

[toonsterwu]

Is Montero even going to be a capable 1B though? If he's not, he's an AL guy his entire career. And I'm not even sure the Yanks would trade him anyway. I like Betances and Banuelos, but it's about all they've got. Romine or Murphy would be averagish 3rd pieces. If you could get the 2 pitchers and Mason Williams, that'd be a damn good haul. My idea though, is it's more likely we could get a 4 or 5 player haul out of Toronto. And with as much upside if Montero isn't included.

 

Well, I can't say if Montero will be capable of first, but considering his offensive potential, it's something I'd be willing to give a shot with. Beyond that, Montero has actually improved slightly defensively. Not enough to make anyone think he's a long term option there, but short term, perhaps.

 

You leave out arguably their 2nd best chip - Gary Sanchez, a guy who might end up being a better version of Montero (due to a higher chance, as of now, of sticking behind the dish). Has to cut down the chips a bit, but I'm not sure I wouldn't take Sanchez over some of the low level positional chips of the Blue Jays (this is, again, assuming that we can pick and choose).

 

If we're talking about 4 or 5 player hauls where we can pick and choose our guys, Toronto would offer better depth and perhaps a better overall package, but I still like the Yankees options a bit more. That said, it's definitely close.

[davell]

Yeah, I'm going off the premise we could get a 4 player haul out of Toronto, while the Yanks probably don't gut their system for us. If I could get one of Montero or Sanchez and BOTH Banuelos and Betances, I'm definitely thrilled. But, if I could get Marisnick, Syndergaard, Nicolino, and one of McGuire or Sanchez, I'd probably take the Toronto package honestly. Plus, the fact those guys are all able to be kept off the 40 man counts for me. Betances is already on it and obviously Montero is.

[illiniguy]

We need to trade rape them for Hosmer. I'm working on getting us some photos of Dayton Moore.

[Backtobanks]

Is Montero even going to be a capable 1B though? If he's not, he's an AL guy his entire career. And I'm not even sure the Yanks would trade him anyway. I like Betances and Banuelos, but it's about all they've got. Romine or Murphy would be averagish 3rd pieces. If you could get the 2 pitchers and Mason Williams, that'd be a damn good haul. My idea though, is it's more likely we could get a 4 or 5 player haul out of Toronto. And with as much upside if Montero isn't included.

 

I've seen comparisons of Montero to Cabrera, so hopefully he could handle 1B. If Dunn can do it, I think Montero should be able to do it. Just don't expect any Gold Gloves.

[toonsterwu]

Should probably go in the Garza thread, but discussion is happening here as well. Saw the CSNchicago thing by Andracki, which seems speculative, suggesting that we are looking for a first/C combination (and I'm assuming that the C talent has to be a clear upgrade on Castillo in terms of talent, even if it's raw). Had me thinking that I can't think of many organizations with a top C/top 1st base combination, and if that's our target return, it may take a 3-team deal. I mean, I'd love Sanchez/Montero, but I don't know if the Yankees do that, and we'd still need pitching on top of that. I doubt d'Arnaud or Lawrie gets moved.

[moochpuppy]

I like this return more than the one the Padres got for Latos (which was good). But they get two ready arms (and much as I'm not as big on Peacock as others, I respect why some folks are high on him) and a quality positional asset. Fricking wow, can't believe they got all three arms and Norris.

 

AJ Cole is the diamond in this deal. Norris may be a HR threat at catcher but last season hit .210 and has only hit .249 during his minor league career. The HR won't come as easily at Oakland Co Coliseum. Milone should be a decent 3-4 starter but his stuff in last season's 5 starts ML debut did not impress (plus he is about 6 months older than Gio). Peacock has had one good season in the minors so I am not sold on him.

 

A decent haul for the A's but I don't think it's as good as it looks on the surface.

[toonsterwu]

I'm not even all that big on Peacock, but from a value perspective, getting 2 high ceiling arms (Cole/Peacock), 2 ready arms (Peacock/Milone), and 3 overall arms that are all fairly intriguing to some extent is fairly remarkable in this day and age, where pitching talent is protected.

 

Also, if Norris can stick behind the plate as an average catcher (and all indications are yes at this stage), getting a high OBP/good pop combination from the position is fairly valuable.

[RammyFanny]

Am I the only one that's a little "meh" on D'Arnoud? Solid prospect, good season last year, but the overall body of work doesn't really stand out to me. I mean he's definitely a good prospect, but I don't see what makes him untouchable or anything.