Cubs team sources: Likely Sandberg reconciliation

[MSG T]

I think quade has proved to no longer be qualified and thats the point.

 

 

The point was that he said that Sandberg has paid his dues and deserves a shot as a result, yet he supposedly was certain Quade was a mistake of a hire when it was made.

 

Who do you want to see manage?

 

I'll take Dave Martinez (or many other people) if it means Sandberg never sets foot in the Cubs dugout as manager of the Cubs.

[Hollandsworths mug]

I think quade has proved to no longer be qualified and thats the point.

 

 

The point was that he said that Sandberg has paid his dues and deserves a shot as a result, yet he supposedly was certain Quade was a mistake of a hire when it was made.

 

Who do you want to see manage?

 

I'll take Dave Martinez (or many other people) if it means Sandberg never sets foot in the Cubs dugout as manager of the Cubs.

 

Based on?

[MSG T]

I think quade has proved to no longer be qualified and thats the point.

 

 

The point was that he said that Sandberg has paid his dues and deserves a shot as a result, yet he supposedly was certain Quade was a mistake of a hire when it was made.

 

Who do you want to see manage?

 

I'll take Dave Martinez (or many other people) if it means Sandberg never sets foot in the Cubs dugout as manager of the Cubs.

 

Based on?

 

Based on Sandberg's comments alluding to what he would do as manager of the Cubs. Sandberg would be a horrible hire as manager.

[Guest]

Based on the fact that he railed Sandberg's wife.

[dew1679666265]

Dew:

 

I am clamoring for a guy that will not put up with the circus atmosphere players have created here. There is also zero chance Ryno gets on the podium after a game and refers to players with cute names such as: "Wellsie, Marms, Byrdsie etc. when they are getting whipped every day.

 

He understands the game, knows how to teach and just so happens to be a hall of famer. He also will not condone bad baseball and chalk it up as: "We'll get em next time". He will correct it if he sees it.

 

In all honesty I don't know how you know any of this. I don't really care that much if he has pet names to refer to players or not, it has nothing to do with whether he can help us win games or not. On the other points, there's no evidence of this at all except for things he's said. But if we should dismiss the smallball-related stuff he's said and done in the past, why should we take seriously the disciplinary stuff he's said?

 

What it comes down to right now is that he's a Hall of Fame player who has been an ok manager in the minors who's said some stuff that sounds good and some stuff that sounds bad/cliched. If hired he may turn out to be a good manager, but there's simply nothing to indicate he will. To top it off, former great players are generally the worst coaches/managers out there because they expect the same work ethic/talent that they had when they played and they're simply not going to get it from most players. It's generally your marginal players (Girardi, Torre, Lou, etc) who make the best managers.

[Hollandsworths mug]

Based on the fact that he railed Sandberg's wife.

 

So, basically, you have no clue on who should manage.

[dew1679666265]

Hasn't it always been more or less accepted, if not rumored, that very few people actually like Ryne Sandberg? Lots of fans loved the player. But I think lots of people do not like the guy. Considering how often he's gotten himself thrown out of games, and how much he seemed to wear out his welcome with Hendry, who accepted anybody and everybody, plus his reputation as a player for being prickly, I'm not sure he has the social ability to get 25 major league baseball players to deal with him for 8+ months in a row.

 

You're probably right, though I was referring more to fans who loved the player and didn't word it well. Fans are clamoring for him because he's Ryne Sandberg and they really liked watching Ryno play, not because of any real managerial merits he's shown.

[Hollandsworths mug]

Sandberg would be a horrible hire as manager.

 

Can I have that crystal ball you use?

[Sammy Sofa]

Based on the fact that he railed Sandberg's wife.

 

So, basically, you have no clue on who should manage.

 

Nobody "should" manage the team. Personally, I'd like Martinez, Bobby V. or Francona. I like Martinez because he was a relatively marginal player who was very sound defensively and has been the bench coach for one of the very best managed/coached teams in the majors for four seasons now. He's worked under an excellent manager in Joe Maddon and would ideally bring a similar approach to managing himself.

 

Sandberg's rhetoric about managing reeks of over-managing/smallball/meatballisms and I don't think players as good as him tend to be good managers. Too much ego is going to be getting in the way, they tend to not be very good teachers since their skills came (relatively speaking) so much easier to them than to players without their level of natural ability, plus Sandberg himself has a reputation of being disliked and never really seemed to be any kind of a leader when he was a player.

 

I'd prefer to have him remain Sandberg the great player as opposed to Sandberg the crappy manager.

[Hollandsworths mug]

Based on the fact that he railed Sandberg's wife.

 

So, basically, you have no clue on who should manage.

 

Nobody "should" manage the team. Personally, I'd like Martinez, Bobby V. or Francona. I like Martinez because he was a relatively marginal player who was very sound defensively and has been the bench coach for one of the very best managed/coached teams in the majors for four seasons now. He's worked under an excellent manager in Joe Maddon and would ideally bring a similar approach to managing himself.

 

Have no issue with Bobby V or Francona. But how does Martinez warrant a shot and not Sandberg? Sandberg has done all he can do to get a shot.

[SouthSideRyan]

Based on the fact that he railed Sandberg's wife.

 

So, basically, you have no clue on who should manage.

 

Nobody "should" manage the team. Personally, I'd like Martinez, Bobby V. or Francona. I like Martinez because he was a relatively marginal player who was very sound defensively and has been the bench coach for one of the very best managed/coached teams in the majors for four seasons now. He's worked under an excellent manager in Joe Maddon and would ideally bring a similar approach to managing himself.

 

Have no issue with Bobby V or Francona. But how does Martinez warrant a shot and not Sandberg? Sandberg has done all he can do to get a shot.

 

Why do you feel Sandberg deserves a shot over Martinez?

[dew1679666265]

Based on the fact that he railed Sandberg's wife.

 

So, basically, you have no clue on who should manage.

 

Nobody "should" manage the team. Personally, I'd like Martinez, Bobby V. or Francona. I like Martinez because he was a relatively marginal player who was very sound defensively and has been the bench coach for one of the very best managed/coached teams in the majors for four seasons now. He's worked under an excellent manager in Joe Maddon and would ideally bring a similar approach to managing himself.

 

Have no issue with Bobby V or Francona. But how does Martinez warrant a shot and not Sandberg? Sandberg has done all he can do to get a shot.

 

He answered the question in the bolded section of his post. Ryno has done none of those things except be sound defensively.

[Hollandsworths mug]

Based on the fact that he railed Sandberg's wife.

 

So, basically, you have no clue on who should manage.

 

Nobody "should" manage the team. Personally, I'd like Martinez, Bobby V. or Francona. I like Martinez because he was a relatively marginal player who was very sound defensively and has been the bench coach for one of the very best managed/coached teams in the majors for four seasons now. He's worked under an excellent manager in Joe Maddon and would ideally bring a similar approach to managing himself.

 

Have no issue with Bobby V or Francona. But how does Martinez warrant a shot and not Sandberg? Sandberg has done all he can do to get a shot.

 

Why do you feel Sandberg deserves a shot over Martinez?

 

For the same reasons I have said over and over again in this thread. He knows the game, he knows our history and what to excpect, he controls the clubhouse and will not let the inmates run it, he's a good teacher and he has done all he can do at the minor league level.

 

All Martinez has done is sit next to Maddon. Let Martinez manage in the minors for a while and see if he can handle it.

[Sammy Sofa]

Sandberg has done all he can do to get a shot.

 

I don't even know what this means.

 

Unlike Martinez, Sandberg doesn't have significant experience working with someone like Maddon. Sandberg hasn't really worked under anyone (as a player or as a minor league manager) worth a damn when it comes to coaching/managing like Martinez has with Maddon. Sandberg also never had a reputation as any kind of coach or leader when he was a player, so unless you're looking at his scanty time managing in the minors without anyone to really learn from I'm not sure what he's "done" that means he deserves or needs to manage.

[SouthSideRyan]

For the same reasons I have said over and over again in this thread. He knows the game, he knows our history and what to excpect, he controls the clubhouse and will not let the inmates run it, he's a good teacher and he has done all he can do at the minor league level.

 

All Martinez has done is sit next to Maddon. Let Martinez manage in the minors for a while and see if he can handle it.

 

Does Dave Martinez know the game?

 

Does Dave Martinez know Cubs history? (Sub-question - Who [expletive] cares?)

 

How do you know how Sandberg would control a major league clubhouse?

 

What has Sandberg done to show he's a better teacher than Martinez?

 

Let Sandberg coach in the majors for a while and see if he can handle it.

[Sammy Sofa]

For the same reasons I have said over and over again in this thread. He knows the game, he knows our history and what to excpect, he controls the clubhouse and will not let the inmates run it, he's a good teacher and he has done all he can do at the minor league level.

 

All Martinez has done is sit next to Maddon. Let Martinez manage in the minors for a while and see if he can handle it.

 

Dave Martinez also played for the Cubs, so I'm not sure how he wouldn't know their "history and what to expect" (though I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't be able to know that). You declare that he "controls the clubhouse," yet you have no idea if that's true since he's never managed or coached a major league team. You declare him to be a good teacher, yet almost all of his managing experience is with an organization with a reputation for NOT instilling solid fundamentals and he has absolutely zero reputation along those lines from his days as a player.

 

Why does Sandberg's experience managing in the minors make him more fit to manage a major league team than Martinez, who has been the bench coach for a competitive major league team (and one of the best managers) known for how well it develops young players? If you place so much stock in managing in the minors as being a true test of managing a major league team then why wasn't Quade a better manager?

[dew1679666265]

Who do you want to see manage?

 

The manager should be an extension of the GM and the organization's philosophy. The general manager should set the philosophy of the organization (what type of hitters and pitchers does the team want, etc) and the manager should help to execute that philosophy by promoting whatever offensive and pitching approach that philosophy calls for. With extreme exceptions (20- and 21-year-olds in the majors, for example), the fundamentals should be taken care of throughout the minors - so if you want to hire a guy because he'll preach fundamentals, then you should be pulling for him to be a minor league manager where that teaching will be far more useful. Except for the youngest of players, if you're trying to teach fundamentals at the major league level, you've failed already.

 

Whoever the Cubs hire as GM should have full reign over bringing in a manager of his choice. If that GM is Epstein and he feels Ryno will work inside the constraints of the organizational philosophy Theo sets, then I'm ok with hiring Ryno. Hendry's biggest problem with the Cubs is that we never had an organizational philosophy, it changed with each managerial hire. When you rely on the manager to set the philosophy, it changes with every new managerial hire. You should hire a manager to fit your organizational philosophy, not let your manager set your philosophy.

[Hollandsworths mug]

Sandberg has done all he can do to get a shot.

 

I don't even know what this means.

 

Unlike Martinez, Sandberg doesn't have significant experience working with someone like Maddon. Sandberg hasn't really worked under anyone (as a player or as a minor league manager) worth a damn when it comes to coaching/managing like Martinez has with Maddon. Sandberg also never had a reputation as any kind of coach or leader when he was a player, so unless you're looking at his scanty time managing in the minors without anyone to really learn from I'm not sure what he's "done" that means he deserves or needs to manage.

 

Yet, somehow, he has the respect from his players and manages to win games. So if you sit next to a manager it makes you more qualified than someone who actually has managed? Half the kids he would come in contact with are guys he managed before.

 

 

One of the minor leagues' worst teams the last three years, the Phillies' Triple-A team won 22 more games in 2011 than '10 and then beat the Pawtucket Red Sox in the first round of the playoffs before the Columbus Clippers eliminated Lehigh Valley Friday night.

 

Says Ruben Amaro Jr:

 

"Ryne has been outstanding,'' he said. "It's hard for me to find enough superlatives when I talk about what he has done there. … He's a Hall of Famer who doesn't act like a Hall of Famer.

 

"I think he understands the importance of what he has done in the game. I also think he's very humble about it. The players really liked and enjoyed playing for him. They were motivated to play for him.''

 

Amaro gives Sandberg credit for paying his dues in learning how to manage.

[SouthSideRyan]

Petition to word filter "paid his dues" and "earned a shot"

 

There are probably about 50 more tenured minor league managers than Sandberg. If his name was Joe Mcgillicuddy nobody would give a [expletive].

[Sammy Sofa]

OK, the first problem, as it was made very clear to you earlier (yet you completely ignore) is the fallacy of you assuming that variation in a minor league team's record can be chalked up to Sandberg. You also seem to be assuming that Martinez doesn't have the respect of the players he coaches and isn't coaching for a team that "wins games." Apparently you think a major league bench coach literally just manages the bench and sits next to the manager and does nothing. He's been the bench coach for a very, very good team working with one of the very best managers in an organization that develops young players like it's going out of style. THAT'S the kind of experience I want, not someone who "deserves a shot" because most of his managing career has been running a team in the Cubs' crappy farm system.

 

Neither of us has presented a case as to why either SHOULD be the manager of the Cubs. There's nobody I think "should" get the job. In the end I want someone who matches as much as possible with a sound organizational and developmental philosophy established by the GM. If that's Sandberg, so be it. Given the names being tossed around for who the Cubs want as GM I really doubt he'd be the choice.

[Hollandsworths mug]

http://www.fox43.com/sports/baseball/phillies/mc-sandberg-column-0921-20110921,0,2590343.column

 

And me wanting Sandberg as manager has nothing to do with the fact he played for the Cubs and is a 'sexy' choice. If he was sitting at home and doing nothing all these years, I'd say why are we even considering him?

 

The fact remains that his players respect him and he has them busting their ass. He is on mulltiple teams short list to manage this year and that should tell you a lot. He gets the most out of them and he has won at the minor league level. He has earned his promotion and whether he get it here or another place, he will get it. To dismiss him because of what he says in a hall of fame speech or because he says he wants the game played the right way is short-sighted at best.

[WilcoFan]

The fact remains that his players respect him and he has them busting their ass.

 

You can't prove this statement. You have no idea (a) if they're "busting their ass" or not, and (b) even if they are, you have no way of proving it has anything to do with the manager.

 

He is on mulltiple teams short list to manage this year and that should tell you a lot.

 

You can't prove this either.

 

He gets the most out of them

 

You can't prove this either.

 

 

and he has won at the minor league level.

 

Finally something you can prove.

 

He has earned his promotion

 

So had Quade, yet you admitted that you dismissed him before he started.

 

To dismiss him because of what he says in a hall of fame speech or because he says he wants the game played the right way is short-sighted at best.

 

It has nothing to do with what he said in his hall of fame speech. He is a "smallball" manager, which is stupid baseball. His teams regularly are in the top 2 or 3 in sacrifice bunts, which are stupid. He has an unnecessary fondness for stolen bases and hit-and-runs, which are stupid most of the time. He overmanages and gives away outs, which is stupid. Regardless of what he said in a hall of fame speech, the way he has managed in the minor leagues is not what the Cubs, who will be built around a statistical model that downgrades all of these things, need.

[dew1679666265]

http://www.fox43.com/sports/baseball/phillies/mc-sandberg-column-0921-20110921,0,2590343.column

 

And me wanting Sandberg as manager has nothing to do with the fact he played for the Cubs and is a 'sexy' choice. If he was sitting at home and doing nothing all these years, I'd say why are we even considering him?

 

The fact remains that his players respect him and he has them busting their ass. He is on mulltiple teams short list to manage this year and that should tell you a lot. He gets the most out of them and he has won at the minor league level. He has earned his promotion and whether he get it here or another place, he will get it. To dismiss him because of what he says in a hall of fame speech or because he says he wants the game played the right way is short-sighted at best.

 

The problem is most of what you said isn't necessarily an indication that he'll be a successful manager. Before the season, every indication was that the players loved Quade and guys like Dempster were pushing hard in the media for Quade to be named the manager last year. The players respected Quade and busted their ass for him last year and into this year as well. Quade managed for a number of years in the minors and earned his promotion to be a ML manager as well. None of that is an indication that a manager will succeed in the role.

 

As for winning at the minor league level, again 24 games over .500 in five seasons is decent, but it's nothing that makes me immediately feel like that guy should be given the ML managerial job. Especially when in at least one of those years he was managing the most talented Cubs minor league team in the system (Tennessee in 2009 that had Castro, Barney, Carpenter, Cashner, Colvin, Gaub, Guyer, JJax, Mateo, Parker, Russell) and managed only a 71-69 record.

[USSoccer]

This might be the worst argument put forth here in a year.

[Guest]

Based on the fact that he railed Sandberg's wife.

 

So, basically, you have no clue on who should manage.

 

 

No. Basically, I'm not going to waste time explaining to you what has been explained many times over or re-asking you the questions which you have either avoided or don't understand.

 

 

I'm still pretty sure you're a troll. I mean...that username?