Soriano feels mistreated....

[CubColtPacer]

Is it? Bouncing a player around in the lineup usually isn't a good idea. Few players can thrive/are comfortable in such a situation. Just look at Castro, Soto and Byrd this year. All three players have had similar splits between different lineup spots like Soriano. If anything it just speaks to Quade and co.'s inability to construct a lineup that plays to both his players' abilities and comfort. Soriano saying he doesn't like such an approach to lineup construction isn't a stupid opinion; it's the exact opposite, actually.

 

Such is the life of a 6/7 hitter though. A team cannot afford to keep a guy like that in one spot all year long. If Soriano is a 7th hitter normally, he needs to move up to 5th or 6th when injuries/days off (especially for somebody like Soto) happen. And to have one of the middle of the order hitters out happens a lot during the season. It would be nice if he could stay in one spot all year long, but it isn't very realistic. The main way you can keep everybody in their preferred lineup order is to drop in the replacement in the same spot in the batting order as the regular, and that isn't a great tactic either.

[Sammy Sofa]

Is it? Bouncing a player around in the lineup usually isn't a good idea. Few players can thrive/are comfortable in such a situation. Just look at Castro, Soto and Byrd this year. All three players have had similar splits between different lineup spots like Soriano. If anything it just speaks to Quade and co.'s inability to construct a lineup that plays to both his players' abilities and comfort. Soriano saying he doesn't like such an approach to lineup construction isn't a stupid opinion; it's the exact opposite, actually.

 

Such is the life of a 6/7 hitter though. A team cannot afford to keep a guy like that in one spot all year long. If Soriano is a 7th hitter normally, he needs to move up to 5th or 6th when injuries/days off (especially for somebody like Soto) happen. And to have one of the middle of the order hitters out happens a lot during the season. It would be nice if he could stay in one spot all year long, but it isn't very realistic. The main way you can keep everybody in their preferred lineup order is to drop in the replacement in the same spot in the batting order as the regular, and that isn't a great tactic either.

 

Personally I don't think he should have been hitting 7th this year. In no way am I defending him as some kind of great or consistent hitter, but given the resources available I don't know why they didn't just have him consistently hit out of the 6th spot like he did last year. Again, the main thing I take away from this is just how poorly Quade managed this team via the lineup. He was constantly juggling it and making ridiculous declarations and decisions when, going into the season, Fukudome-Castro-Aramis-Pena-Soto-Soriano-Byrd-2B made obvious sense most of the time. I agree, it's not like any hitter, Soriano included, is going to automatically be rooted to one spot in the lineup, especially if they hit 5-8, but he's got some pretty significant time split between 5-7, moreso than someone who is just being adjusted based on favorable splits or someone like Soto getting time off.

[Sammy Sofa]

Is it? Bouncing a player around in the lineup usually isn't a good idea. Few players can thrive/are comfortable in such a situation. Just look at Castro, Soto and Byrd this year. All three players have had similar splits between different lineup spots like Soriano. If anything it just speaks to Quade and co.'s inability to construct a lineup that plays to both his players' abilities and comfort. Soriano saying he doesn't like such an approach to lineup construction isn't a stupid opinion; it's the exact opposite, actually.

 

There is zero evidence to this.

 

How are you so sure? Check out Castro, Byrd and Soto's splits, just like I said in the post you quoted. All three had lineup slots where they saw significant time this year where they hit well below what is expected from them. I'm pretty damn confident that bouncing a player around different slots in the lineup beyond covering for someone getting a game off, an injury or favorable splits isn't going to translate to favorable numbers across the board. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that relative lineup stability can help a player.

[Old Style]

You're a professional, for [expletive]'s sake. It doesn't matter what [expletive] number you hit in the lineup, jut hit the GD ball. It's not like they're moving you from position to position in the field.

[nick23]

And it's not like he hasn't pulled this stuff before. When he first got here the only place he felt comfortable was leadoff. The year before in Washington, he threatened to basically quit if the was moved from second to left. Now all of a sudden he doesn't like hitting lower than 6th. I think it's pretty obvious he has a much higher opinion of his baseball playing ability than most every other person alive. His slash line this year is beyone horrible.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

How are you so sure? Check out Castro, Byrd and Soto's splits, just like I said in the post you quoted. All three had lineup slots where they saw significant time this year where they hit well below what is expected from them. I'm pretty damn confident that bouncing a player around different slots in the lineup beyond covering for someone getting a game off, an injury or favorable splits isn't going to translate to favorable numbers across the board. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that relative lineup stability can help a player.

 

Castro had an ugly slash line when batting third. He also had an ugly slash line when facing a starting pitcher for the second time (but not the first or third). He was pretty bad in the third and seventh innings. And the month of July.

 

Those just look like statistical noise to me.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I remember when he came over, he said he didn't feel comfortable in the heart of the lineup. Well, that should have been the first red flag not to give him the kind of money usually reserved for heart of the lineup type hitters. He insisted in hitting leadoff, which was OK before his legs gave out. Now, he's basically a 6-7 type hitter. Soriano probably wouldnt be any worse of an option at the 5 spot than anyone else we have.

[rocket]

I remember when he came over, he said he didn't feel comfortable in the heart of the lineup. Well, that should have been the first red flag not to give him the kind of money usually reserved for heart of the lineup type hitters. He insisted in hitting leadoff, which was OK before his legs gave out. Now, he's basically a 6-7 type hitter. Soriano probably wouldnt be any worse of an option at the 5 spot than anyone else we have.

 

his career stats were the 1st red flag to not give him his insane contract

[Sammy Sofa]

How are you so sure? Check out Castro, Byrd and Soto's splits, just like I said in the post you quoted. All three had lineup slots where they saw significant time this year where they hit well below what is expected from them. I'm pretty damn confident that bouncing a player around different slots in the lineup beyond covering for someone getting a game off, an injury or favorable splits isn't going to translate to favorable numbers across the board. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that relative lineup stability can help a player.

 

Castro had an ugly slash line when batting third. He also had an ugly slash line when facing a starting pitcher for the second time (but not the first or third). He was pretty bad in the third and seventh innings. And the month of July.

 

Those just look like statistical noise to me.

 

Maybe, maybe not. I don't think I'm presenting an unreasonable conclusion by stating that I think lineup instability can effect a player's performance, especially a flawed player like Soriano (or a younger, developing player like Castro). That might be more based on who is hitting around them in certain spots, sure, but it's not that much of a stretch.

 

Again, my main point here is that this is just yet another end result of Quade's crappy lineup managing. The usual suspects will bitch and moan about "how dare Soriano open his mouth like this," but hell, in a roundabout way he's right.

[NewUserName]

Personally, I feel rather mistreated by the Cubs the last couple of seasons.

[SouthSideRyan]

This Cub team makes it so hard for me to like them.

 

Just play!!! It is beyond selfish to be complaining to the media with a few days left in the season. Don't let the door hit you on the way out because it would be the only thing you since you've been here!

 

He didn't go complaining to the media.

 

$100 says he was asked something along the lines of "so what do you think of batting so low in the lineup this year?" Soriano then responds with his limited grasp of english and essentially says "I'll hit where they want me to hit, but I don't like being bounced around the lineup as often as I have been this year." What's wrong with that? It's not like we haven't been griping about Quade's crappy lineup management all season long.

 

I didn't say he went complaining to the media. I said it is selfish to complain to the media about it, whether they were seeking him out or not. It's baseball. Hit the ball no matter where you are! If you are Soriano you are going to take the same approach no matter what slot you are hitting in. He has had the same approach whether he has hit leadoff, third, sixth, or wherever since he has been with the team. I've had enough of the Ramirez and Soriano show. Send them somewhere else. They haven't won and titles or created a winning atmosphere in the clubhouse anyway. Good riddance!

 

[expletive] RAMIREZ!!!

[SouthSideRyan]

I remember when he came over, he said he didn't feel comfortable in the heart of the lineup.

 

Pretty sure he never said that.

[Sammy Sofa]

I remember when he came over, he said he didn't feel comfortable in the heart of the lineup.

 

Pretty sure he never said that.

 

Wasn't it pretty much the exact opposite? He definitely said he preferred to lead off, but ultimately he'd hit wherever they settled on wanting him to hit.

[Magnetic Curses]

This Cub team makes it so hard for me to like them.

 

Just play!!! It is beyond selfish to be complaining to the media with a few days left in the season. Don't let the door hit you on the way out because it would be the only thing you since you've been here!

 

He didn't go complaining to the media.

 

$100 says he was asked something along the lines of "so what do you think of batting so low in the lineup this year?" Soriano then responds with his limited grasp of english and essentially says "I'll hit where they want me to hit, but I don't like being bounced around the lineup as often as I have been this year." What's wrong with that? It's not like we haven't been griping about Quade's crappy lineup management all season long.

 

I didn't say he went complaining to the media. I said it is selfish to complain to the media about it, whether they were seeking him out or not. It's baseball. Hit the ball no matter where you are! If you are Soriano you are going to take the same approach no matter what slot you are hitting in. He has had the same approach whether he has hit leadoff, third, sixth, or wherever since he has been with the team. I've had enough of the Ramirez and Soriano show. Send them somewhere else. They haven't won and titles or created a winning atmosphere in the clubhouse anyway. Good riddance!

 

[expletive] RAMIREZ!!!

 

or any brown player

[Sammy Sofa]

It is pretty baffling how Aramis was inserted into that rant.

 

I'd be curious to see how this guy can explain how Aramis and Soriano are so similar in how they haven't "created a winning atmosphere." $100 says the words "lazy" and "selfish" and "doesn't/don't care" are involved.

[Magnetic Curses]

it's baffling how ramirez is the second most valuable third baseman in cub history and people still have a problem with him.

 

i mean, do people not know that santo was mexican or something?

[Sammy Sofa]

Maybe they figured the diabetes got rid of the lazy parts or something.

[TruffleShuffle]

It is pretty baffling how Aramis was inserted into that rant.

 

I'd be curious to see how this guy can explain how Aramis and Soriano are so similar in how they haven't "created a winning atmosphere." $100 says the words "lazy" and "selfish" and "doesn't/don't care" are involved.

 

the whole team sees them being all brown and are like "well [expletive] it, i don't want to win any more"

[Little Slide Rooter]

Ah yes, the Ramirez and Soriano show, The Dominican Republics #1 sitcom. I wonder what kind of zany antics those two will get into this season.

[YearofDaCubs]

All the more reason to eat his horrible contract and let him go. Might be one of the worst contracts ever. In the end we got ~3 good years out of him. Even I expected to get more out of him. This is what you get when you sign 30+ year old's to long contracts.

[Sammy Sofa]

All the more reason to eat his horrible contract and let him go.

 

This is what you get when you sign 30+ year old's to long contracts.

 

Oh Lord.

[Soul]

This just seems like a guy who is frustrated with a bad season. Pretty understandable, IMO.

 

I'm pretty frustrated, too.

[KingCubsFan]

That's why I think it's more a language barrier issue and he's complaining about being moved around. In the past he's always been vocal about hitting wherever they want him in the order and I can't really see someone making a big deal about hitting 7th instead of 6th.

I think you're reaching a bit here. Back when Lou was considering moving him from leadoff, he was pretty clear about he would hit anywhere in the lineup, but he didn't want to be juggled around. And the language barrier was still a factor. It was quite different than this:

"My first year in the major leagues I batted eighth and ninth. After that I never batted lower than sixth. But Mike's the manager and we do what he says."

He's obviously more upset with the fact that he's batting lower in the order than the fact that he's moving around from 6th to 7th. As someone mentioned above, this looks like an athlete on the decline who hasn't accepted it. Doesn't make Soriano a bad person, and I'm sure he works just as hard no matter where he hits, but he's going to have to accept he's on the downside of his career at some point.

And comparing this to Castro is a bit of a stretch too. Castro is a young player who clearly presses when he's hitting third, considering how damn good he is hitting #1 and #2. Soriano is equally bad no matter where he hits (which is basically #6 or #7 anyways, and is probably based mostly on matchups).

[Sammy Sofa]

That's why I think it's more a language barrier issue and he's complaining about being moved around. In the past he's always been vocal about hitting wherever they want him in the order and I can't really see someone making a big deal about hitting 7th instead of 6th.

I think you're reaching a bit here. Back when Lou was considering moving him from leadoff, he was pretty clear about he would hit anywhere in the lineup, but he didn't want to be juggled around. And the language barrier was still a factor. It was quite different than this:

"My first year in the major leagues I batted eighth and ninth. After that I never batted lower than sixth. But Mike's the manager and we do what he says."

He's obviously more upset with the fact that he's batting lower in the order than the fact that he's moving around from 6th to 7th. As someone mentioned above, this looks like an athlete on the decline who hasn't accepted it. Doesn't make Soriano a bad person, and I'm sure he works just as hard no matter where he hits, but he's going to have to accept he's on the downside of his career at some point.

And comparing this to Castro is a bit of a stretch too. Castro is a young player who clearly presses when he's hitting third, considering how damn good he is hitting #1 and #2. Soriano is equally bad no matter where he hits (which is basically #6 or #7 anyways, and is probably based mostly on matchups).

 

I don't doubt he doesn't want to hit lower in the lineup, but it's my opinion that the lineup juggling is the bigger issue. When he was dropped to 6 he didn't complain, and I'd bet that if he had been dropped to 7 and left there for the most part we wouldn't have heard this, either. And no, he hasn't been "equally bad" across the 5-7 spots. And no, I don't think it's a stretch to think that almost any player, regardless of ability or skillset, is going to struggle in at least one spot if they're being bounced across at least 3 spots in the lineups for significant PA thanks to their managers crappy ability to construct a lineup.

[CubColtPacer]

That's why I think it's more a language barrier issue and he's complaining about being moved around. In the past he's always been vocal about hitting wherever they want him in the order and I can't really see someone making a big deal about hitting 7th instead of 6th.

I think you're reaching a bit here. Back when Lou was considering moving him from leadoff, he was pretty clear about he would hit anywhere in the lineup, but he didn't want to be juggled around. And the language barrier was still a factor. It was quite different than this:

"My first year in the major leagues I batted eighth and ninth. After that I never batted lower than sixth. But Mike's the manager and we do what he says."

He's obviously more upset with the fact that he's batting lower in the order than the fact that he's moving around from 6th to 7th. As someone mentioned above, this looks like an athlete on the decline who hasn't accepted it. Doesn't make Soriano a bad person, and I'm sure he works just as hard no matter where he hits, but he's going to have to accept he's on the downside of his career at some point.

And comparing this to Castro is a bit of a stretch too. Castro is a young player who clearly presses when he's hitting third, considering how damn good he is hitting #1 and #2. Soriano is equally bad no matter where he hits (which is basically #6 or #7 anyways, and is probably based mostly on matchups).

 

I don't doubt he doesn't want to hit lower in the lineup, but it's my opinion that the lineup juggling is the bigger issue. When he was dropped to 6 he didn't complain, and I'd bet that if he had been dropped to 7 and left there for the most part we wouldn't have heard this, either. And no, he hasn't been "equally bad" across the 5-7 spots. And no, I don't think it's a stretch to think that almost any player, regardless of ability or skillset, is going to struggle in at least one spot if they're being bounced across at least 3 spots in the lineups for significant PA thanks to their managers crappy ability to construct a lineup.

 

Do you know that no team in MLB has started any person in either the 6 or the 7 spot for at least 80 games? That's only half the season! The thought that anybody who is in one of those two spots can expect to stay there for most of the season is a myth. Soriano's 58 games in the 7 spot is actually pretty stable compared to most of MLB.