Reds after Ubaldo Jimenez?

[Cubs Fan Dan]

Not sure why he would be available but if I am the Cubs and I am wanting to compete next year I would definitely monitor this situation.

 

 

Ubaldo Jimenez On Reds' Radar

By Tim Dierkes [July 12 at 11:27am CST]

The Reds have Rockies ace Ubaldo Jimenez "on their radar," report Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. However, the Rockies "have yet to engage in meaningful dialogue about Jimenez with the Reds or any other club," and the Reds are not certain to be trade deadline buyers.

 

If the Rockies do seriously entertain trading Jimenez, it will shake a trade market bereft of front-end starting pitchers. Rosenthal said on Saturday that the Rockies "are not shopping Jimenez, but they will listen on anyone other than Troy Tulowitzki and Carlos Gonzalez." Rosenthal said that "if the Rockies get an offer that makes sense, they will give it serious consideration."

 

Jimenez, 27, has lost almost three miles per hour off his average fastball velocity this year, though his peripheral stats haven't changed much since a 2010 season that placed him third in the NL Cy Young voting. He's got a 4.14 ERA overall, but a 2.52 ERA in his last eight starts. This is not a "buy low" situation - Jimenez is under team control very cheaply through 2013. Jimenez has extra value to Colorado, since he can void his $8MM club option for '14 if traded. Troy E. Renck of the Denver Post tweets that while the Rockies always listen when teams call, they'd have to be overwhelmed to move Jimenez, receiving multiple arms.

 

Rosenthal and Morosi kick around the idea of a Reds package starting with Homer Bailey, Mike Leake, or Travis Wood, but I think that could be beat if teams like the Yankees, Cardinals, Tigers, Phillies, or Pirates come calling.

[Little Slide Rooter]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BNn5k2xtE-Y/TWQ6B5k6Z6I/AAAAAAAALZI/PnuERZfMB58/s1600/dustybaker.jpg

 

Be afraid Ubaldo. Be very afraid.

[questionmarkgrace]

Not sure why he would be available but if I am the Cubs and I am wanting to compete next year I would definitely monitor this situation.

 

 

Ubaldo Jimenez On Reds' Radar

By Tim Dierkes [July 12 at 11:27am CST]

The Reds have Rockies ace Ubaldo Jimenez "on their radar," report Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. However, the Rockies "have yet to engage in meaningful dialogue about Jimenez with the Reds or any other club," and the Reds are not certain to be trade deadline buyers.

 

If the Rockies do seriously entertain trading Jimenez, it will shake a trade market bereft of front-end starting pitchers. Rosenthal said on Saturday that the Rockies "are not shopping Jimenez, but they will listen on anyone other than Troy Tulowitzki and Carlos Gonzalez." Rosenthal said that "if the Rockies get an offer that makes sense, they will give it serious consideration."

 

Jimenez, 27, has lost almost three miles per hour off his average fastball velocity this year, though his peripheral stats haven't changed much since a 2010 season that placed him third in the NL Cy Young voting. He's got a 4.14 ERA overall, but a 2.52 ERA in his last eight starts. This is not a "buy low" situation - Jimenez is under team control very cheaply through 2013. Jimenez has extra value to Colorado, since he can void his $8MM club option for '14 if traded. Troy E. Renck of the Denver Post tweets that while the Rockies always listen when teams call, they'd have to be overwhelmed to move Jimenez, receiving multiple arms.

 

Rosenthal and Morosi kick around the idea of a Reds package starting with Homer Bailey, Mike Leake, or Travis Wood, but I think that could be beat if teams like the Yankees, Cardinals, Tigers, Phillies, or Pirates come calling.

 

 

Well he has already lost some velocity maybe Dusty wants to finish him off for good.

 

Seriously though the velocity loss has to have colorado nervous or they think that there is little chance of signing him long term. Eitherway they should get quite the haul because he is still an incredible talent.

[Brett]

All teams should be willing to listen to offers for all players. It's silly to say, "I will absolutely not listen to any offer you make for this awesome player, even if the offer is so insanely over the top that it would be criminal not to make the trade."

 

That said, you've got to be a little nervous when a guy who's cheaply under team control for a few years, is just 27, and has been massively successful, is made available after his velocity drops.

 

It would be like the Cubs making Carlos Marmol available... :blush:

[Little Slide Rooter]

All teams should be willing to listen to offers for all players. It's silly to say, "I will absolutely not listen to any offer you make for this awesome player, even if the offer is so insanely over the top that it would be criminal not to make the trade."

 

That said, you've got to be a little nervous when a guy who's cheaply under team control for a few years, is just 27, and has been massively successful, is made available after his velocity drops.

 

It would be like the Cubs making Carlos Marmol available... :blush:

 

Cubs get Robinson Cano, Adrian Gonzalez, David Price, Jeremy Hellickson, and Evan Longoria.

 

Starlin Castro is cut into 3rds and the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays each get a piece. And they can split John Grabow and Koyie Hill to if they like.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Ubaldo Jimenez Rumors: Monday

By Tim Dierkes [July 25 at 4:26pm CST]

The chances of an Ubaldo Jimenez trade are around 50/50, one source close to the talks tells Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (Twitter link). To date, I don't think any reporter has ventured to go above 20%. Here are the latest updates on the right-hander, with the most recent news up top:

 

•The Rockies won't be able to get three or four of Boston's top prospects for Jimenez, according to Peter Gammons of MLB Network (Twitter link). The Reds won't part with Devin Mesoraco, Billy Hamilton and two other prospects for Jimenez, Gammons notes.

•The Rockies' asking price on Jimenez hasn't changed, according to Renck (on Twitter).

•The Rockies "haven't pulled Jimenez off the showroom floor," wrote Troy E. Renck of the Denver Post yesterday. The Reds, Yankees, Rangers, and Red Sox are suitors, though Renck says Rockies GM Dan O'Dowd has "talked up nearly everyone."

•Morosi notes that the Reds are still involved, but there might not be a favorite at this point.

•For their part, the Yankees are worried "about Ubaldo's inconsistency, all-out delivery, and coming to AL East," tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post. The Yankees have the talent to pull off a deal, but it remains to be seen if the two teams can find common ground.

 

I wonder if theres any chance that The Cubs would go after Ubaldo. The Rockies have some high demands, but maybe we could swing it. Its not often where a non contender makes a buy move, but not only is he under control through 2012, but he has very reasonable team options for '13 at 6 mil and '14 at 8 mil. What do you think it would take to get him? Something similar to the Garza package would have to be the starting point, say McNutt, Jackson or Szczur and 2 other quality pieces and throw in a AAAAer to sweeten the deal.

[XZero771679666304]

Dusty needs to feed.

[dew1679666265]

I wonder if theres any chance that The Cubs would go after Ubaldo. The Rockies have some high demands, but maybe we could swing it. Its not often where a non contender makes a buy move, but not only is he under control through 2012, but he has very reasonable team options for '13 at 6 mil and '14 at 8 mil. What do you think it would take to get him? Something similar to the Garza package would have to be the starting point, say McNutt, Jackson or Szczur and 2 other quality pieces and throw in a AAAAer to sweeten the deal.

 

I'd rather sign Wilson than give up that much for Ubaldo.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I wonder if theres any chance that The Cubs would go after Ubaldo. The Rockies have some high demands, but maybe we could swing it. Its not often where a non contender makes a buy move, but not only is he under control through 2012, but he has very reasonable team options for '13 at 6 mil and '14 at 8 mil. What do you think it would take to get him? Something similar to the Garza package would have to be the starting point, say McNutt, Jackson or Szczur and 2 other quality pieces and throw in a AAAAer to sweeten the deal.

 

I'd rather sign Wilson than give up that much for Ubaldo.

 

Wilson will be a very popular guy this offseason, so theres no guarrantee we get him. Unless Sabathia hits the market, no other FA starter comes close. As far as money goes, it would make him cheaper than Wilson would be, allowing us to use all our FA dollars on Ramirez and Fielder. Depending how fruitful this draft ends up as far as signing overslots, Id be willing to sign with some key pieces to contend next year and beyond.

[XZero771679666304]

I wonder if theres any chance that The Cubs would go after Ubaldo. The Rockies have some high demands, but maybe we could swing it. Its not often where a non contender makes a buy move, but not only is he under control through 2012, but he has very reasonable team options for '13 at 6 mil and '14 at 8 mil. What do you think it would take to get him? Something similar to the Garza package would have to be the starting point, say McNutt, Jackson or Szczur and 2 other quality pieces and throw in a AAAAer to sweeten the deal.

 

I'd rather sign Wilson than give up that much for Ubaldo.

 

I agree.

[dew1679666265]

Wilson will be a very popular guy this offseason, so theres no guarrantee we get him. Unless Sabathia hits the market, no other FA starter comes close. As far as money goes, it would make him cheaper than Wilson would be, allowing us to use all our FA dollars on Ramirez and Fielder. Depending how fruitful this draft ends up as far as signing overslots, Id be willing to sign with some key pieces to contend next year and beyond.

 

Jimenez has been worth 8.8 WAR the past two seasons (6.3 and 2.5) while Wilson has been worth 8.2 (4.4 and 3.8). Is the difference between those two and between Flaherty/Baker and Aramis worth going from Brett Jackson in center to a Reed/Colvin platoon in right next year with Byrd in center? And then having to go out and spend on a 6th (maybe 5th) starter to replace McNutt? And then having to spend more FA money on the rotation and right field in two years? It'd make us better next year, but I think it would hurt us in the mid-term (2-4 years) because our best, closest prospects would be gone and we'd have to supplement with FAs until some of the lower minors guys were ready.

 

If we could give some guys further from the majors, I'd be more open to it. Even still, Wilson's got less mileage and I think we'd be better overall with Wilson/Jackson/McNutt/Szczur/Flaherty/Baker than Ubaldo/Aramis/Reed/Colvin.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Wilson will be a very popular guy this offseason, so theres no guarrantee we get him. Unless Sabathia hits the market, no other FA starter comes close. As far as money goes, it would make him cheaper than Wilson would be, allowing us to use all our FA dollars on Ramirez and Fielder. Depending how fruitful this draft ends up as far as signing overslots, Id be willing to sign with some key pieces to contend next year and beyond.

 

Jimenez has been worth 8.8 WAR the past two seasons (6.3 and 2.5) while Wilson has been worth 8.2 (4.4 and 3.8). Is the difference between those two and between Flaherty/Baker and Aramis worth going from Brett Jackson in center to a Reed/Colvin platoon in right next year with Byrd in center? And then having to go out and spend on a 6th (maybe 5th) starter to replace McNutt? And then having to spend more FA money on the rotation and right field in two years? It'd make us better next year, but I think it would hurt us in the mid-term (2-4 years) because our best, closest prospects would be gone and we'd have to supplement with FAs until some of the lower minors guys were ready.

 

If we could give some guys further from the majors, I'd be more open to it. Even still, Wilson's got less mileage and I think we'd be better overall with Wilson/Jackson/McNutt/Szczur/Flaherty/Baker than Ubaldo/Aramis/Reed/Colvin.

 

 

I'm not saying that Ubaldo is that much better of an option than Wilson, or even a better option than Wilson. I'm saying that it isn't as simple as just going out and signing Wilson. Starting pitching is always in demand in the offseason, and Wilson is by far the best available option in the 2012 FA class, ad after him, it's a pretty sharp dip to Edwin Jackson or Hiroki Kuroda If we did trade for Jimenez, yeah, we'd pay a hefty price, but we'd have that extra front end starter that we need as opposed to throw our name in the hat for Wilson and hope for the best.

[Sammy Sofa]

You need money to sign a FA. The Cubs have money. If they want to sign Wilson they can. The end.

[Little Slide Rooter]

You need money to sign a FA. The Cubs have money. If they want to sign Wilson they can. The end.

 

This is true. Other teams have money too though. The Tigers, Red Sox, Yankees, and Angels are all teams that will likely show interest, as well as the Orioles and Nationals who are always desperate for pitching. Also, he could simply resign with the Rangers.

[Sammy Sofa]

Right, and other teams could trade for Jimenez. Or the Rockies decide not to move him now. Your point?

[XZero771679666304]

Right, and other teams could trade for Jimenez. Or the Rockies decide not to move him now. Your point?

 

 

Other teams have more prospects. Trading for Jimenez would be more of a challenge than signing Wilson, I think.

[Sammy Sofa]

Right, and other teams could trade for Jimenez. Or the Rockies decide not to move him now. Your point?

 

 

Other teams have more prospects. Trading for Jimenez would be more of a challenge than signing Wilson, I think.

 

Agreed. I much prefer the idea of trying to sign Wilson instead of trading Jimenez. I was just countering WSR's apparent conclusion that the Cubs have a better chance of getting Jiminez via trade as opposed to signing Wilson.

[Little Slide Rooter]

My only real point is that in addition to offense, we need another front of the rotation pitcher. Wilson is the only one our there in my opinion who qualifies as front end unless CC hits the market. If we miss out there, we need to trade for someone, and if Jimenez is out there, we should go for him. However, even if we missed out on both, and ended up with Jackson or Kuroda, as well as Fielder and resigning Ramirez, we could still very much contend. As Hendry said last year, this team is 3 moves away from contending. well, there they are.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Right, and other teams could trade for Jimenez. Or the Rockies decide not to move him now. Your point?

 

 

Other teams have more prospects. Trading for Jimenez would be more of a challenge than signing Wilson, I think.

 

Agreed. I much prefer the idea of trying to sign Wilson instead of trading Jimenez. I was just countering WSR's apparent conclusion that the Cubs have a better chance of getting Jiminez via trade as opposed to signing Wilson.

 

But there are more teams willing to part with money than wiling to put together the kind of prospect package that it would take to acquire a front end starter, so if Jimenez became available, I think there would e fewer teams in that hunt than for Wilson.

[Sammy Sofa]

Doesn't matter. Too many of the fewer teams can spare better packages than what the Cubs can offer. The Cubs have a much better chance pursuing the money route, since they potentially have more money to spend than almost any other team in baseball.

[XZero771679666304]

Right, and other teams could trade for Jimenez. Or the Rockies decide not to move him now. Your point?

 

 

Other teams have more prospects. Trading for Jimenez would be more of a challenge than signing Wilson, I think.

 

Agreed. I much prefer the idea of trying to sign Wilson instead of trading Jimenez. I was just countering WSR's apparent conclusion that the Cubs have a better chance of getting Jiminez via trade as opposed to signing Wilson.

 

But there are more teams willing to part with money than wiling to put together the kind of prospect package that it would take to acquire a front end starter.

 

And we don't have the pieces to offer that other teams do. We do have as much money to spend as anyone, though.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Doesn't matter. Too many of the fewer teams can spare better packages than what the Cubs can offer. The Cubs have a much better chance pursuing the money route, since they potentially have more money to spend than almost any other team in baseball.

 

As long as they're willing to spend that money, so I guess what it all boils sown to is that if they aren't willing to spend, they won't go after either.

[javy knows my name]

Good talk.

 

Yeah, I'm not all that interested in Jimenez. His risk of ruin is just a little bit much for me. I also want to shop Marmol hard this go-round, but I'm not sure I'm gonna get my wish.

[sneakypower]

i'd offer McNutt, Marshall, Vitters, Barney for Ubaldo

[dew1679666265]

i'd offer McNutt, Marshall, Vitters, Barney for Ubaldo

 

That'd be a lot more appealing to me. Not sure it'd be enough to make me prefer Ubaldo to Wilson, but it gets a lot closer. I'd like to be more comfortable about Whitenack and Cashner's progress from injury first, though.