2011 Chicago Bulls Playoff Thread (5/26 7:30pm CST - TNT)

[TruffleShuffle]

that's because you're all bulls fans.

[Guest]

lol - so now you guys aren't trolling the bulls anymore...just me.

 

awesome. :good:

[imb]

lol - so now you guys aren't trolling the bulls anymore...just me.

 

awesome. :good:

 

It may be safer for you to stick to other threads for a while.

[SouthSideRyan]

this isn't 312sports, so non-bulls fans should be allowed to troll imo

 

luckily for you guys i don't really care about the nba

The mods and I don't share your opinion.

 

I wanna talk to Cuse about this.

[Guest]

lol - so now you guys aren't trolling the bulls anymore...just me.

 

awesome. :good:

 

It may be safer for you to stick to other threads for a while.

meh, I can take it.

[scarey]

coach of the year, co-executive of the year, mvp, best record in the league, doesn't get the refs on your side what does?

 

A 2-1 deficit going into game 4 in one of the highest rated televised NBA playoff series. Let's just say Miami fans will be unhappy with the refs after next game.

[TruffleShuffle]

you really think the nba is telling referees to call the game a certain way so that the series goes as long as possible? remove tin foil hat please.

[scarey]

you really think the nba is telling referees to call the game a certain way so that the series goes as long as possible? remove tin foil hat please.

 

I don't think they tell them to call it blatantly in one teams favor. They're not going to make fouls appear out of thin air. I do think, in a case such as this, they influence the refs to give the Bulls the benefit of the doubt on calls in game 4. If there's two players going for a 50/50 loose ball and they make obvious contact, the Heat player will be tagged with the foul.

 

I don't think this suggestion is any more ridiculous than people that claim NBA refs called the games in order to make personal gain, and that one came out to be true with Donaghy.

[TruffleShuffle]

you don't think it's more ridiculous? in the donaghy situation, he was calling games a certain way to improve his lifestyle. that's very easy to believe. what you're talking about involves at least one person, and probably multiple people, high up in NBA management telling three referees to call the game a certain way so that the series might go an extra game or two. the upside to the referees is nothing - there's actually a downside because people see them all favoring one particular team and their reputations are damaged. plus you're assuming that none of the refs and management types are honest whistle-blowers who would have a problem with a league-mandated conspiracy to unfairly influence games.

 

i'm pretty sure the upside of the league squeezing an extra game of widely-watched basketball is outweighed by the downside of a david stern and a few referees possibly going to jail and the nba losing all credibility/possibly going backrupt.

[Flames24Rulz]

I really haven't noticed bad officiating besides the sequence to begin the second quarter in Game 2. In fact, I think the refs have been about as good as possible considering we're playing a team with two players that get calls whenever they wish.

 

I'm not even really all that upset. Miami has just shown that they're the better team the last two games. If we win tomorrow, everything's fine. That's a pretty gigantic 'if', though.

 

Anytime Joakim Noah wants to start earning that $12 million per season would be fine with me. I said before this series that if Noah and Boozer couldn't get anything accomplished against Miami's frontcourt, I wouldn't have much hope for them in the future. 1 point? I know he's not getting paid to score but you should be able to get 10-12 points against their front line.

 

Ultimately, it's going to come down on Rose. He's been terrible in the two losses in this series and if he's going to continue to play like that, this series is going to end on Thursday.

[scarey]

you don't think it's more ridiculous? in the donaghy situation, he was calling games a certain way to improve his lifestyle. that's very easy to believe.

 

Having a drawn out, dramatic, and widely watched playoff series improves the reputation of the NBA as a whole thus giving a potential for improvement of many lifestyles.

 

what you're talking about involves at least one person, and probably multiple people, high up in NBA management telling three referees to call the game a certain way so that the series might go an extra game or two.

 

I don't think there's anyone making a phone call to each referee before the game telling them to make sure the Heat lose game 4. I thought I made that clear and apologize if I didn't. I'm saying I believe there is an underlying culture that longer playoff series, especially one that involves two teams that are likely to be rivals for years to come, is beneficial to the NBA. If there's an opportunity to extend the series, even if it's a small influence, then it's an opportunity that needs to be taken advantage of.

 

the upside to the referees is nothing

 

I may be wrong on this, I seriously don't have a clue... but don't the refs get paid an amount per game they officiate?

 

- there's actually a downside because people see them all favoring one particular team and their reputations are damaged.

 

I don't want to try to sound overly sarcastic or mean spirited, but do you really believe there is a risk of an NBA referee damaging his/her reputation?

 

plus you're assuming that none of the refs and management types are honest whistle-blowers who would have a problem with a league-mandated conspiracy to unfairly influence games.

 

Again, I don't think there's any phone calls made, any closed door meetings, or any official documents being distributed here.

 

i'm pretty sure the upside of the league squeezing an extra game of widely-watched basketball is outweighed by the downside of a david stern and a few referees possibly going to jail and the nba losing all credibility/possibly going backrupt.

 

For one thing, the NBA is already facing financial insecurity, we all know that. Secondly, I think you underestimate how much of an impact a long, hard-fought series between the Bulls and Heat would make on the NBA. The NBA is all about rivalries. I can almost guarantee the Bulls and Heat will square off on Christmas day next year. Every time they play next year during the regular season will be a featured game and it will draw ratings. I could elevate the perception and increase ratings across the board. Not to mention, there's 3 superstars involved with the two teams as well as some all star caliber talent to market to the masses. It's something the NBA could really use right now.

[TruffleShuffle]

so there is just a tacit understanding between nba executives and officials that they shouldn't completely throw the game for the bulls, but if it's a close game, then probably swing it their way.

 

also, i take it that the nba didn't care much about making money on high-profile series like celtics-heat and lakers-mavs, since it let both of those series end quickly, and neither of the teams that went out early had any appreciable advantage in officiating.

[Sammy Sofa]

Shhhh. This all makes sense in his head. Trust him.

[SouthSideRyan]

2 week ban for Truffle.

[UMFan83]

2 week ban for Truffle.

 

I'm sure mocking the mods will just be overlooked.

[E.J.]

2 week ban for Truffle.

 

You are a grown ass man and you act like a 4-year-old. I don't get it. Tim made the rules clear, so knock it off.

[javy knows my name]

2 week ban for Truffle.

 

You are a grown ass man and you act like a 4-year-old. I don't get it. Tim made the rules clear, so knock it off.

 

How dare you cast aspersions? He could be a boob man

[SouthSideRyan]

It was a joke. If we can't laugh at conspiracy theorists who can we laugh at?

 

(Yeah, I know Danny Ainge for trading for Jeff Green)

[wolf stansson]

This Miami perimeter defense is an absolute bitch. The way they force Derrick to the outside allows their bigs an extra second to get in position not to contest the shot so much as they are filling the spaces that Derrick prefers to take off from. His timing on those attacks at the rim are so precise and practiced that by altering where he takes off from, it throws his timing off just enough that he's missing bunnies and runners that are usually his money shots.

 

It's obviously good video scouting but it highlights two huge things for me, 1)LeBron and Wade can do a good impression of Jordan and Pippen guarding the perimeter and 2) this is why size matters in the NBA and it's unheard of for someone Derrick's height to lead a team to a championship as it's only star. They can force Derrick to the outside. The book on LeBron has always been force him left. Luol Deng is as good a perimeter defender in the league as you'll find. Just watch him and see how little success even he has forcing LeBron left.

[SouthSideRyan]

Is there an explanation regarding Rose's 3 point shooting going cold in the 2nd half? Was it just an insanely hot December? Wear and tear from a long-ass season on the smaller body of a 22 year old who started drawing a lot of contact around the same time? Rose was 9th in total minutes played on the season and was 2nd only to Kobe in usage rate. I personally think Thibs should've sacrificed a few regular season wins in order to rest Rose and Deng a little more. I made it clear that I thought chasing the best record in the NBA was a foolish endeavor, and it's easy to say with the hindsight of the Bulls lapping the field in the East, but it didn't seem worth it to me.

[scarey]

also, i take it that the nba didn't care much about making money on high-profile series like celtics-heat and lakers-mavs, since it let both of those series end quickly

 

The games aren't played in a vacuum.

 

I don't understand why this is supposedly so crazy. I understand why it's crazy when people say stupid things about how so-and-so team is paying the ref or whatever absurd statement the meathead fans like to throw out there when they're upset their team is losing. I don't think my argument belongs in the same realm as that though.

 

In my mind, this is more like the "superstar" fouls. There's nothing stating that refs give them out. Refs don't gain anything from making that call. Nobody is whistle-blowing on it. It is good for the NBA. When you see Kobe swish a jump shot, you add a touch foul and an and-1 and it's suddenly a highlight on Sportcenter. It's good exposure for the league. The only difference here is I'm pretty sure we all acknowledge that "superstar" fouls do exist.

Edited May 23, 2011 by scarey

[SouthSideRyan]

Superstar fouls exist because stars will get the benefit of the doubt from an official. The ref knows Player A is good, so when player A starts telling him he's getting hacked, they're inclined to believe it. When Player Z starts saying it, it's shut up you're a 2nd year scrub that scores 3 points per game, you're trying to tell me that Player A can't stop you without cheating?

[UMFan83]

This Miami perimeter defense is an absolute bitch. The way they force Derrick to the outside allows their bigs an extra second to get in position not to contest the shot so much as they are filling the spaces that Derrick prefers to take off from. His timing on those attacks at the rim are so precise and practiced that by altering where he takes off from, it throws his timing off just enough that he's missing bunnies and runners that are usually his money shots.

 

It's obviously good video scouting but it highlights two huge things for me, 1)LeBron and Wade can do a good impression of Jordan and Pippen guarding the perimeter and 2) this is why size matters in the NBA and it's unheard of for someone Derrick's height to lead a team to a championship as it's only star. They can force Derrick to the outside. The book on LeBron has always been force him left. Luol Deng is as good a perimeter defender in the league as you'll find. Just watch him and see how little success even he has forcing LeBron left.

 

This is a good post. I've noticed this as well. It's also helped that Wade has been heavily sagging off his man, daring Bogans or Brewer to beat him. He's been able to get towards the paint quickly when Rose starts to drive to slow him down. They've done a fantastic job of minimizing Rose's drives to the lane, and as such his impact offensively is dwarfed. He's almost looked confused out there at times. In the 2nd half yesterday, he took a total of 3 shots in the last 19 minutes of the game.

 

And as far as size mattering, you have a point there as well. The only thing is, people marvel at Rose's strength for a little guy, so I was hoping that would compensate for his size issues and allow him to get into the paint on anyone. It has worked so far until this series. For the first time in awhile, I have seen teams able to really slow down Derrick Rose. I was starting to believe it wasn't possible, but here we are.

[scarey]

Superstar fouls exist because stars will get the benefit of the doubt from an official. The ref knows Player A is good, so when player A starts telling him he's getting hacked, they're inclined to believe it. When Player Z starts saying it, it's shut up you're a 2nd year scrub that scores 3 points per game, you're trying to tell me that Player A can't stop you without cheating?

 

I agree that's part of it. I don't think that's the whole story though.

[UMFan83]

Is there an explanation regarding Rose's 3 point shooting going cold in the 2nd half? Was it just an insanely hot December? Wear and tear from a long-ass season on the smaller body of a 22 year old who started drawing a lot of contact around the same time? Rose was 9th in total minutes played on the season and was 2nd only to Kobe in usage rate. I personally think Thibs should've sacrificed a few regular season wins in order to rest Rose and Deng a little more. I made it clear that I thought chasing the best record in the NBA was a foolish endeavor, and it's easy to say with the hindsight of the Bulls lapping the field in the East, but it didn't seem worth it to me.

 

 

I had the numbers at one point, but it was basically a really really hot 3 week stretch in December that made Rose's overall numbers look like an overall improvement. sometime between the 1st and 2nd rounds, I calculated his 3pt % since that hot december stretch ended, and he was hitting somewhere around 28-29% from 3 the last 60+ games he played.