Cash + Wells to DL

[jersey cubs fan]

That's why they have rehab assignments, jerk.

 

cant afford rehab assignments when you're fighting for a playoff spot to keep your job

 

You have to wonder if it's at least partially a matter of thinking the guy will never hack it as a starter but not wanting to come out and say that. Because the notion that an injured starter can't return to the rotation after a couple month's absense is pretty crazy. And fighting for his job would probably entail rushing him back more than keeping the rotation hole as is.

[SouthSideRyan]

That's why they have rehab assignments, jerk.

 

cant afford rehab assignments when you're fighting for a playoff spot to keep your job

 

You have to wonder if it's at least partially a matter of thinking the guy will never hack it as a starter but not wanting to come out and say that. Because the notion that an injured starter can't return to the rotation after a couple month's absense is pretty crazy. And fighting for his job would probably entail rushing him back more than keeping the rotation hole as is.

 

Thinking he can't hack it as a starter at this point is even crazier.

[Rob]

I really have a hard time grasping that several people whose opinions I respect on this board wish to see Hendry continue on as GM. Or, at the very least, would rather stick with the devil they know.

 

My opinion on the matter has often been misconstrued as support for Hendry. However, I don't feel it's unreasonable to have an idea of who our alternatives are before firing him. I don't think anybody would be happy to be in a situation where the only person willing to even interview for the job was Jim Bowden. In short, it's not about firing Hendy... it's about hiring somebody better.

[jersey cubs fan]

I really have a hard time grasping that several people whose opinions I respect on this board wish to see Hendry continue on as GM. Or, at the very least, would rather stick with the devil they know.

 

My opinion on the matter has often been misconstrued as support for Hendry. However, I don't feel it's unreasonable to have an idea of who our alternatives are before firing him. I don't think anybody would be happy to be in a situation where the only person willing to even interview for the job was Jim Bowden. In short, it's not about firing Hendy... it's about hiring somebody better.

 

But nobody is asking for him to be fired and then start looking into replacements. A list should have been made before the sale was completed. That list should have been narrowed down a very long time ago.

 

It's mind boggling to me that people are so hung up on the idea that it could be worse. The Cubs lost 87 games last year and are on pace to lose 93 this season. Things already are terrible. I don't really think it's on the fans to decide who the right person is before calling for Hendry's head. It's not the fans duty to have a better idea than Hendry who to acquire before they can criticize his job acquiring players. This isn't some impatient nonsensical complaint. This isn't calling for the head of a guy who can only get the team into the playoffs but not beyond. This is an organization that has done a terrible job with the resources they have had and it's on Jim Hendry. He has to be replaced.

[Guest]

Let me play devil’s advocate with Cashner. This season is shot for him in terms of building endurance. You won’t want him throwing a full 200 IP next year, coming off an injury like this, and having only ever thrown about half that many innings. That makes building the MLB rotation more difficult because you have to plan around Cashner, and we aren’t overflowing with depth at the moment(especially with our top prospects getting hurt as frequently as the MLB team). So that makes 2013 at the earliest for him to be a true MLB starter, and after that he’s arbitration eligible and starts costing real money. Now obviously, that’s not so bleak a scenario to unequivocally say “not worth it, ship him to the pen”. But if you’re faced with that scenario or getting full value from the pen almost immediately? Where his stuff might play better anyway? Where he can inherit the late inning leverage from Wood retiring/Marshall leaving for FA/Marmol’s arm exploding, and contribute similar if not better value than he would be expected to in the rotation? I don’t think that’s completely indefensible. Is that what I would do? The back end of the rotation makes me too queasy and his upside is too great to not give him at least one more shot, but I think Cashner may be more Sean Marshall than we’d like to admit.

[Irrelevant Dude]

Have there been any updates on Cashner's status?

[SouthSideRyan]

Let me play devil’s advocate with Cashner. This season is shot for him in terms of building endurance. You won’t want him throwing a full 200 IP next year, coming off an injury like this, and having only ever thrown about half that many innings. That makes building the MLB rotation more difficult because you have to plan around Cashner, and we aren’t overflowing with depth at the moment(especially with our top prospects getting hurt as frequently as the MLB team). So that makes 2013 at the earliest for him to be a true MLB starter, and after that he’s arbitration eligible and starts costing real money. Now obviously, that’s not so bleak a scenario to unequivocally say “not worth it, ship him to the pen”. But if you’re faced with that scenario or getting full value from the pen almost immediately? Where his stuff might play better anyway? Where he can inherit the late inning leverage from Wood retiring/Marshall leaving for FA/Marmol’s arm exploding, and contribute similar if not better value than he would be expected to in the rotation? I don’t think that’s completely indefensible. Is that what I would do? The back end of the rotation makes me too queasy and his upside is too great to not give him at least one more shot, but I think Cashner may be more Sean Marshall than we’d like to admit.

 

No, that makes me sad.

[Rob]

Let me play devil’s advocate with Cashner. This season is shot for him in terms of building endurance. You won’t want him throwing a full 200 IP next year, coming off an injury like this, and having only ever thrown about half that many innings. That makes building the MLB rotation more difficult because you have to plan around Cashner, and we aren’t overflowing with depth at the moment(especially with our top prospects getting hurt as frequently as the MLB team). So that makes 2013 at the earliest for him to be a true MLB starter, and after that he’s arbitration eligible and starts costing real money. Now obviously, that’s not so bleak a scenario to unequivocally say “not worth it, ship him to the pen”. But if you’re faced with that scenario or getting full value from the pen almost immediately? Where his stuff might play better anyway? Where he can inherit the late inning leverage from Wood retiring/Marshall leaving for FA/Marmol’s arm exploding, and contribute similar if not better value than he would be expected to in the rotation? I don’t think that’s completely indefensible. Is that what I would do? The back end of the rotation makes me too queasy and his upside is too great to not give him at least one more shot, but I think Cashner may be more Sean Marshall than we’d like to admit.

 

You may be right.

 

Of course, this makes the decision to bring up Cashner and use him in relief last year look even more poor than it already had.

[Guest]

Chicago Sun-Times[/url]"]Injured fifth starter Andrew Cashner (shoulder) is scheduled to return from rehab in Arizona to Chicago on Monday to be re-evaluated by team doctors to determine whether he can restart a throwing program. The Cubs are doubling the process this time around after Cashner suffered a setback last month as he was about to begin a minor-league rehab stint.

[FloridaCubbie]

Andrew Cashner (shoulder) will be examined next Monday by team doctors to determine whether he can resume a throwing program.

Cashner was shut down from his rehab back in mid-May after experiencing a setback and has been in extended spring training working out. We won't see him in a Cubs uniform until late July, at the earliest. When he does return, he'll do so as a reliever.

 

Is that last bit accurate?

Do we have any sort of ace pitcher, even if "ace" is very optimistic, that we can pencil into the rotation over the next couple of years? Without at least one of these can we really compete?

 

 

Between Cashner, Whitenack, McNutt, Carpenter, and Archer there has been some heavy turnover in elite pitching talent in the last year to the point where I don't see us developing a true Ace soon. Other than C.C. opting-out are there any free agent prospects in the next few years?

[ctcf]

Andrew Cashner (shoulder) will be examined next Monday by team doctors to determine whether he can resume a throwing program.

Cashner was shut down from his rehab back in mid-May after experiencing a setback and has been in extended spring training working out. We won't see him in a Cubs uniform until late July, at the earliest. When he does return, he'll do so as a reliever.

 

Is that last bit accurate?

Do we have any sort of ace pitcher, even if "ace" is very optimistic, that we can pencil into the rotation over the next couple of years? Without at least one of these can we really compete?

 

 

Between Cashner, Whitenack, McNutt, Carpenter, and Archer there has been some heavy turnover in elite pitching talent in the last year to the point where I don't see us developing a true Ace soon. Other than C.C. opting-out are there any free agent prospects in the next few years?

 

 

I think the "only as a reliever" bit is just their speculation, which they certainly seem to be fond of doing. I haven't seen anything about him being switched back to a reliever except in two blurbs on that site.

[SouthSideRyan]

Andrew Cashner (shoulder) will be examined next Monday by team doctors to determine whether he can resume a throwing program.

Cashner was shut down from his rehab back in mid-May after experiencing a setback and has been in extended spring training working out. We won't see him in a Cubs uniform until late July, at the earliest. When he does return, he'll do so as a reliever.

 

Is that last bit accurate?

Do we have any sort of ace pitcher, even if "ace" is very optimistic, that we can pencil into the rotation over the next couple of years? Without at least one of these can we really compete?

 

 

Between Cashner, Whitenack, McNutt, Carpenter, and Archer there has been some heavy turnover in elite pitching talent in the last year to the point where I don't see us developing a true Ace soon. Other than C.C. opting-out are there any free agent prospects in the next few years?

 

I think the "only as a reliever" bit is just their speculation, which they certainly seem to be fond of doing. I haven't seen anything about him being switched back to a reliever except in two blurbs on that site.

 

Somebody posted a quote about him coming back as a reliever this year a few weeks ago.

[dew1679666265]

Do we have any sort of ace pitcher, even if "ace" is very optimistic, that we can pencil into the rotation over the next couple of years? Without at least one of these can we really compete?

 

If he keeps pitching the way he is, Matt Garza is an ace.

[jersey cubs fan]

Do we have any sort of ace pitcher, even if "ace" is very optimistic, that we can pencil into the rotation over the next couple of years? Without at least one of these can we really compete?

 

If he keeps pitching the way he is, Matt Garza is an ace.

 

didn't he already stop pitching the way he was? He's taken a noticable step back since returning from injury.

[KingCubsFan]

Do we have any sort of ace pitcher, even if "ace" is very optimistic, that we can pencil into the rotation over the next couple of years? Without at least one of these can we really compete?

 

If he keeps pitching the way he is, Matt Garza is an ace.

 

didn't he already stop pitching the way he was? He's taken a noticable step back since returning from injury.

5.14 ERA, 14:10 K:BB ratio in 21 innings

[dew1679666265]

Do we have any sort of ace pitcher, even if "ace" is very optimistic, that we can pencil into the rotation over the next couple of years? Without at least one of these can we really compete?

 

If he keeps pitching the way he is, Matt Garza is an ace.

 

didn't he already stop pitching the way he was? He's taken a noticable step back since returning from injury.

 

Good point, he has been pretty mediocre in June (xFIP is still solid, but not much else). I was referring to season as a whole numbers, but the trend isn't promising.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Do we have any sort of ace pitcher, even if "ace" is very optimistic, that we can pencil into the rotation over the next couple of years? Without at least one of these can we really compete?

 

If he keeps pitching the way he is, Matt Garza is an ace.

 

didn't he already stop pitching the way he was? He's taken a noticable step back since returning from injury.

 

Good point, he has been pretty mediocre in June (xFIP is still solid, but not much else). I was referring to season as a whole numbers, but the trend isn't promising.

 

While Im not sabermetrician, I like to believe all of the people who said that he was a really good pitcher whoed had some bad luck, but even BBR has his WAR at 0.8. To me, hes in that same boat as Zack Greinke and Mark Burhrle where he'll look like an ace one day and Jason Marquis the next.

[dew1679666265]

While Im not sabermetrician, I like to believe all of the people who said that he was a really good pitcher whoed had some bad luck, but even BBR has his WAR at 0.8. To me, hes in that same boat as Zack Greinke and Mark Burhrle where he'll look like an ace one day and Jason Marquis the next.

 

Fangraphs has his WAR at 2.0 for the season. He's pitched much better throughout the year than his ERA (4.11) would indicate (2.89 xFIP, 9.56 K/9), but he's regressed in K/9 and K:BB over the past month or so.

[biittner77]

What's harder on a pitcher's arm, pitching 3 days in a row for one inning each day or pitching 5 innings every five days?

[jersey cubs fan]

What's harder on a pitcher's arm, pitching 3 days in a row for one inning each day or pitching 5 innings every five days?

 

How much time off does the reliever get after those three days? If it's only one, then that is a season of 121 outings and 121 innings. The starter would go 35 starts for 175 innings. I think that reliever is taking much more of a toll.

[scarey]

Andrew Cashner (shoulder) will be examined next Monday by team doctors to determine whether he can resume a throwing program.

Cashner was shut down from his rehab back in mid-May after experiencing a setback and has been in extended spring training working out. We won't see him in a Cubs uniform until late July, at the earliest. When he does return, he'll do so as a reliever.

 

Is that last bit accurate?

Do we have any sort of ace pitcher, even if "ace" is very optimistic, that we can pencil into the rotation over the next couple of years? Without at least one of these can we really compete?

 

 

Between Cashner, Whitenack, McNutt, Carpenter, and Archer there has been some heavy turnover in elite pitching talent in the last year to the point where I don't see us developing a true Ace soon. Other than C.C. opting-out are there any free agent prospects in the next few years?

 

The 2012-2013 free agent class has some great starters available including Cole Hamels and Matt Cain.

[jersey cubs fan]

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/news/story?id=6712238

 

If only this team was healthy...

[jersey cubs fan]

Going through transaction logs team by team (disabled list stats aren't generally kept and reported as neatly as stolen bases and walks), I've found 346 DL stints this season, totaling 11,323 days on the DL, or about 377 days per team. Team numbers range from less than 150 (White Sox, Rays) to more than 600 (Yankees, Rangers).

 

So, which teams have lost the most due to injury this year, rather than on-field play? Simply tallying DL days doesn't quite work, as not all injuries are built the same -- losing Josh Hamilton for a month is going to hurt a team a lot more than losing a utility infielder for a year.

 

To answer this question, I took the ZiPS-projected WARP for every player on the disabled list and prorated it for time missed. That alone won't tell the whole story, as these players weren't replaced in 2011 by a cloned army of theoretical replacement-level players, but real players who played well or poorly.

 

So, for each injury, I went game by game, to attempt to reasonably allocate playing time to a healthy squad.

[jersey cubs fan]

If you haven't seen the link, it says Minnesota, Texas, NYM and Nationals could/should be a few games better (about 4-6 each), while the Cubs stay the same.

[SouthSideRyan]

If you haven't seen the link, it says Minnesota, Texas, NYM and Nationals could/should be a few games better (about 4-6 each), while the Cubs stay the same.

 

ZiPS must not have thought much of Cashner/Wells/Garza if they expected them to put a ~7.00 ERA in limited innings during their missed starts.