Greinke traded to Brewers (pg 2)

[Little Slide Rooter]

Let's just hope nobody wins 86 the next decade because cubs should have 85 a couple times.

 

For the next 2-3 years, it looks like the Cards, Reds, and Brewers will have the NL Central, but that could change very quickly. Guys like Carpenter, Wainwright, Braun, Fielder, Greinke and maybe Pujols could find new homes in the next few years, and the Cubs have something that none of these teams seemingly have anymore, and thats a solid farm system.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Well, at least with Jake Odorizzi in the deal now, the Crew had to give up what to me is their top pitching prospect. (Others might disagree).

 

I'm conflicted by what the Brewers have done. They have gone for it all with these two trades, going from a team with no chance to make the playoffs to one that really should. But are they going to win a World Series in the next two years? If they don't, they are in big trouble, because the farm system has been raided like no other time before. For a mid-market team, you'd imagine building around prospects is essential to being good.

[bcl412]

I'm a little upset that my two favorite non-Cubs (Dunn and Greinke) now play for arch-rivals

[OleMissCub]

whats plan C for the Yankees?

 

Get Clemens out of retirement

[erik316wttn]

Damn, Brewers are gonna be dangerous this year. And Milwaukee is going to be a good fit for Grienke with his anxiety issues. He'll do well in another small market.

[JonJayCutler]

Ugh.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Well, at least with Jake Odorizzi in the deal now, the Crew had to give up what to me is their top pitching prospect. (Others might disagree).

 

I'm conflicted by what the Brewers have done. They have gone for it all with these two trades, going from a team with no chance to make the playoffs to one that really should. But are they going to win a World Series in the next two years? If they don't, they are in big trouble, because the farm system has been raided like no other time before. For a mid-market team, you'd imagine building around prospects is essential to being good.

 

Thats what I envy about Brewer fans. They dont think World Series, they just want to be good. 2008 was a huge success in their minds, and while we were better tht year, we chalk it up as another big let down. If they make the playoffs this year, they'll consider it a success.

 

Between Sabbathis, Marcum, and now Greinke, over the past 3 years, the Brewers have probably mortgaged their future more than any other team in baseball, and they cant possible retain Fielder after 2011 or Greinke after 2012.

[erik316wttn]

Well, at least with Jake Odorizzi in the deal now, the Crew had to give up what to me is their top pitching prospect. (Others might disagree).

 

I'm conflicted by what the Brewers have done. They have gone for it all with these two trades, going from a team with no chance to make the playoffs to one that really should. But are they going to win a World Series in the next two years? If they don't, they are in big trouble, because the farm system has been raided like no other time before. For a mid-market team, you'd imagine building around prospects is essential to being good.

 

Thats what I envy about Brewer fans. They dont think World Series, they just want to be good. 2008 was a huge success in their minds, and while we were better tht year, we chalk it up as another big let down. If they make the playoffs this year, they'll consider it a success.

 

Between Sabbathis, Marcum, and now Greinke, over the past 3 years, the Brewers have probably mortgaged their future more than any other team in baseball, and they cant possible retain Fielder after 2011 or Greinke after 2012.

 

No, but then they can restock the farm once they trade away Fielder and Grienke, and the whole process starts over again.

[illiniguy]

whats plan C for the Yankees?

 

Get Clemens out of retirement

Just win another 100 games again this year?

[Burtonbell]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

 

9:06am: Peter Gammons of the MLB Network indicates (via Twitter) that a player to be named later, rather than Jeffress, is heading to Kansas City. Escobar, Cain, and Odorizzi are still involved in the deal. SI.com's Jon Heyman confirms the names, noting that the trade just requires physicals and Bud Selig's approval, because of the money involved (Twitter links). Heyman adds (via Twitter) that the Royals were close to an agreement with Washington, but Greinke told the team he wouldn't accept a deal to the Nationals, who were on his no-trade list.

 

 

Washington? Huh...

[NewUserName]

whats plan C for the Yankees?

 

I dont think Greinke was plan B for the Yankees

[Little Slide Rooter]

Well, at least with Jake Odorizzi in the deal now, the Crew had to give up what to me is their top pitching prospect. (Others might disagree).

 

I'm conflicted by what the Brewers have done. They have gone for it all with these two trades, going from a team with no chance to make the playoffs to one that really should. But are they going to win a World Series in the next two years? If they don't, they are in big trouble, because the farm system has been raided like no other time before. For a mid-market team, you'd imagine building around prospects is essential to being good.

 

Thats what I envy about Brewer fans. They dont think World Series, they just want to be good. 2008 was a huge success in their minds, and while we were better tht year, we chalk it up as another big let down. If they make the playoffs this year, they'll consider it a success.

 

Between Sabbathis, Marcum, and now Greinke, over the past 3 years, the Brewers have probably mortgaged their future more than any other team in baseball, and they cant possible retain Fielder after 2011 or Greinke after 2012.

 

No, but then they can restock the farm once they trade away Fielder and Grienke, and the whole process starts over again.

 

Theres no guarantee that they'll be able to pull out another Fielder, Braun, Gallardo, Weeks, etc. Besides, at this point, I dobt they trade Fielder and he likely walsk after this year.

[erik316wttn]

Well, at least with Jake Odorizzi in the deal now, the Crew had to give up what to me is their top pitching prospect. (Others might disagree).

 

I'm conflicted by what the Brewers have done. They have gone for it all with these two trades, going from a team with no chance to make the playoffs to one that really should. But are they going to win a World Series in the next two years? If they don't, they are in big trouble, because the farm system has been raided like no other time before. For a mid-market team, you'd imagine building around prospects is essential to being good.

 

Thats what I envy about Brewer fans. They dont think World Series, they just want to be good. 2008 was a huge success in their minds, and while we were better tht year, we chalk it up as another big let down. If they make the playoffs this year, they'll consider it a success.

 

Between Sabbathis, Marcum, and now Greinke, over the past 3 years, the Brewers have probably mortgaged their future more than any other team in baseball, and they cant possible retain Fielder after 2011 or Greinke after 2012.

 

No, but then they can restock the farm once they trade away Fielder and Grienke, and the whole process starts over again.

 

Theres no guarantee that they'll be able to pull out another Fielder, Braun, Gallardo, Weeks, etc. Besides, at this point, I dobt they trade Fielder and he likely walsk after this year.

 

Fielder, Braun, Gallardo, Weeks, etc were acquired through the draft. But, if this season doesn't work out the way they thought it would, they can make it known that Fielder can be had for prospects, and I'm sure they'd get a very good package from someone for him.

[Backtobanks]

Damn, Brewers are gonna be dangerous this year. And Milwaukee is going to be a good fit for Grienke with his anxiety issues. He'll do well in another small market.

 

I was never into this "anxiety issues" game, but I'll play along. Grienke will be a good fit for Milwaukee unless he's pitching in Chicago, NY, LA, or in a tight divisional race, or in the playoffs/World Series. In other words, he was a good fit in the small market of KC because they didn't play many games that mattered.

[Magnetic Curses]

depressing watching everyone get presents for Christmas.

 

winter is going to be long and cold and it's going to last the rest of your life.

[Guest]

Fielder and Weeks are free agents after this season. Greinke and Marcum are free agents after next season. They aren't going to get a haul for any of them.

 

Also to the point, Milwaukee has really depleted its farm system this offseason. They made some moves that aren't really stop-gap in nature, but at the same time if they don't make noise in 2010 they could find themselves in a pretty bleak long-term outlook. But that's what they have to do with their market size I guess.

 

One more thing, this could be the deepest the NL Central has ever been. The Astros and Pirates will still be awful, but the other 4 teams are all pretty easily capable of winning 80-88 games, and none of them look like big favorites to win 90+. Could be a real interesting year.

[shnsajax]

depressing watching everyone get presents for Christmas.

 

winter is going to be long and cold and it's going to last the rest of your life.

 

Well we all know it will last for the rest of yours at least.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Damn, Brewers are gonna be dangerous this year. And Milwaukee is going to be a good fit for Grienke with his anxiety issues. He'll do well in another small market.

 

I was never into this "anxiety issues" game, but I'll play along. Grienke will be a good fit for Milwaukee unless he's pitching in Chicago, NY, LA, or in a tight divisional race, or in the playoffs/World Series. In other words, he was a good fit in the small market of KC because they didn't play many games that mattered.

 

That's the million dollar question, and one that won't be answered until this summer. Some people can laugh off an anxiety order if they don't have one. It's a real issue and one that can't exactly be cured.

 

Grienke comes with a set of question marks that are not often seen with a described ace. Nobody really knows how he is going to react in a big situation because he's never been in one. And he's even concerned about it, because he doesn't want to go anywhere where the spotlight is going to be too bright. The only thing he doesn't realize is that in order to be on a good team and go to the playoffs, the spotlight is going to eventually be big and bright no matter where you are.

[dew1679666265]

Greinke had one fantastic season (2009), but since then he's been a younger version of Ryan Dempster - outside of 2009 his best ERA is 3.47 and his best xFIP is 3.76. Since 2008, Dempster's ERAs have been 2.96, 3.65 and 3.85 and his xFIPs have been 3.74, 3.81 and 3.89. As for ERA+, Greinke (outside of 2009) has been between 100 and 126 while Dempster has been between 113 and 155.

 

Obviously Greinke is better since he's younger than Demp - I'm not arguing that - but is Greinke really the mega difference maker he's considered? Or is he just a younger version of Ryan Dempster?

Hahahaha. He's much better and younger but if you forget his best season for some [expletive] season maybe you can pretend he isn't. Good analysis.

 

He's pretty young and very good, but would we consider him to be an elite ace if not for that one season in 2009? My question is, given everything he's done prior to that season and since it, is anything close to that season repeatable? If not, then I don't see any difference between him and Dempster (outside of age, obviously). And I wouldn't trade 3 of my top 10 prospects for Dempster at age 27.

 

And I'm not saying you should ignore his best season, I'm saying there's a really good chance it's a career year and that's not the type of pitcher he is.

[brewfandave]

The Brewers' optimal plan really is to go for cycles: five years of stocking and losing, three years of developing (and probably more losing) with a two-three year window of being able to contend. Ben Sheets' paper-thin tendons blew the early part of the contending cycle, but Melvin just extended the contending cycle while greatly prolonging the subsequent restocking cycle.

 

As a Brewer fan, I am willing to deal with an extended period of development for the chance to go for it all. As was previously mentioned, Milwaukee is a small market, and getting to the playoffs is a victory in itself. With that rotation, and that offense, that's probably enough to earn a seat at the craps table called the playoffs.

 

The Brewers just can't compete with two huge markets (Chicago and Houston), and one bigger mid-market (St. Louis) regularly, so sometimes you have to go all in. Greinke-Yo-Marcum-Wolf-whoever is a pretty darn good rotation, and they've given up no offense from last season.

 

They're going to get a lot of first and second round draft picks in the next two-three years (Fielder, Marcum, Greinke, possibly Weeks). Then the cycle starts again.

[NewUserName]

The Brewers' optimal plan really is to go for cycles: five years of stocking and losing, three years of developing (and probably more losing) with a two-three year window of being able to contend. Ben Sheets' paper-thin tendons blew the early part of the contending cycle, but Melvin just extended the contending cycle while greatly prolonging the subsequent restocking cycle.

 

As a Brewer fan, I am willing to deal with an extended period of development for the chance to go for it all. As was previously mentioned, Milwaukee is a small market, and getting to the playoffs is a victory in itself. With that rotation, and that offense, that's probably enough to earn a seat at the craps table called the playoffs.

 

The Brewers just can't compete with two huge markets (Chicago and Houston), and one bigger mid-market (St. Louis) regularly, so sometimes you have to go all in. Greinke-Yo-Marcum-Wolf-whoever is a pretty darn good rotation, and they've given up no offense from last season.

 

They're going to get a lot of first and second round draft picks in the next two-three years (Fielder, Marcum, Greinke, possibly Weeks). Then the cycle starts again.

 

Wisconsin fans seem to be very good at supporting teams if they are worth supporting. Is it possible that if the Brewers would make a serious investment into winning that they could become bigger mid market like St Louis?

[erik316wttn]

The Brewers' optimal plan really is to go for cycles: five years of stocking and losing, three years of developing (and probably more losing) with a two-three year window of being able to contend. Ben Sheets' paper-thin tendons blew the early part of the contending cycle, but Melvin just extended the contending cycle while greatly prolonging the subsequent restocking cycle.

 

As a Brewer fan, I am willing to deal with an extended period of development for the chance to go for it all. As was previously mentioned, Milwaukee is a small market, and getting to the playoffs is a victory in itself. With that rotation, and that offense, that's probably enough to earn a seat at the craps table called the playoffs.

 

The Brewers just can't compete with two huge markets (Chicago and Houston), and one bigger mid-market (St. Louis) regularly, so sometimes you have to go all in. Greinke-Yo-Marcum-Wolf-whoever is a pretty darn good rotation, and they've given up no offense from last season.

 

They're going to get a lot of first and second round draft picks in the next two-three years (Fielder, Marcum, Greinke, possibly Weeks). Then the cycle starts again.

 

Wisconsin fans seem to be very good at supporting teams if they are worth supporting. Is it possible that if the Brewers would make a serious investment into winning that they could become bigger mid market like St Louis?

 

They absolutely could. If they put out a winning team, they'll put butts in the seats, guaranteed.

[brewfandave]

They absolutely will put butts in the seats, but there's a lot more to market (and budget) than attendance. Milwaukee's media market is actually smaller than that of their AAA affiliate. Seriously, Nashville is a bigger market than Milwaukee.

 

Anyway, pushing three million attendees lets them top out at about $90 million in player spending. That's a far cry from the $130-150 million the Cubs or Astros can throw around, or even the $100 million plus the Cardinals can spend. Paying the market rate for Prince Fielder or Albert Pujols is flat-out impossible for the Brewers. How much is the Cubs' WGN contract? Their Comcast Sports contract? Take one of those, and cut it in half. That's maybe what the Brewers get from TV.

[Guest]

They absolutely will put butts in the seats, but there's a lot more to market (and budget) than attendance. Milwaukee's media market is actually smaller than that of their AAA affiliate. Seriously, Nashville is a bigger market than Milwaukee.

 

Anyway, pushing three million attendees lets them top out at about $90 million in player spending. That's a far cry from the $130-150 million the Cubs or Astros can throw around, or even the $100 million plus the Cardinals can spend. Paying the market rate for Prince Fielder or Albert Pujols is flat-out impossible for the Brewers. How much is the Cubs' WGN contract? Their Comcast Sports contract? Take one of those, and cut it in half. That's maybe what the Brewers get from TV.

I don't know where you've been the last 12 months but the Cubs aren't throwing around that type of money any longer. It won't be long before the Rickett's clan pleads poverty to get help paying for the improvements they want at Wrigley.

[ELCABALLO45]

Zack Greinke is a Brewers. Holy crap.