Cubs targeting innings-eater instead of Lee

[Guest]

A big part of why this is so painful to me is that I'm sure they're thinking Cashner can't pitch enough innings in 2011 to hold down a starter's role. And why would that be? Because they felt the need to convert him to a relief in a desperate attempt to salvage some level of respectability in a lost season.

 

So, now they face the problem that a host of us pointed out here at nsbb when the move was first made. Cashner's innings totals in 2010 simply won't support the conversion to a full-time starter role in 2011 without risking his long-term health.

 

There is no shortage of starter candidates here. Let's not bother with signing some trash pitcher. If we can get Javy on a cheap, short term deal - great. If not, let's not bother at all.

[KingCubsFan]

A big part of why this is so painful to me is that I'm sure they're thinking Cashner can't pitch enough innings in 2011 to hold down a starter's role. And why would that be? Because they felt the need to convert him to a relief in a desperate attempt to salvage some level of respectability in a lost season.

 

So, now they face the problem that a host of us pointed out here at nsbb when the move was first made. Cashner's innings totals in 2010 simply won't support the conversion to a full-time starter role in 2011 without risking his long-term health.

 

There is no shortage of starter candidates here. Let's not bother with signing some trash pitcher. If we can get Javy on a cheap, short term deal - great. If not, let's not bother at all.

I don't think they really see him as a starter at all. They saw a hole in "power right-handed setup man" (a similar position to "left-handed cleanup hitter" and "speedy leadoff hitter") and figure they've filled it for the next 15 years with Cashner. At this point, it's wishful thinking he'll ever be seriously considered for the rotation.

[mhuber92211]

Sometimes the prevailing thoughts on this board makes no sense. On one hand, people are fine with paying an overrated pitcher too much money that will have a bloated and bad contract 2 years in but on the other hand a contract for a mediocre player making $1 million gets the blacklist and boos.

 

Lee's contract will be considered the same as Zito's, Soriano's and Zambrano's within 2 years. No pitcher is worth $20 million a year in a contract longer than 4 years. Not one has worked out well for the team. Heck, CC Sabathia's contract is already considered bad.

 

Stay far away from the big names and the team will likely be in better shape for the long and short run. Look at the payroll this year. If the Cubs were to sign Lee only the Yankees and Red Sox would have 2 pitchers making more than $18 million on the same staff.

I've read this post twice and my first suspicions were correct; literally everything you said here is wrong

 

Actually, its not but thanks for taking the time to contribute absolutely nothing to a thread.

[javy knows my name]

Sometimes the prevailing thoughts on this board makes no sense. On one hand, people are fine with paying an overrated pitcher too much money that will have a bloated and bad contract 2 years in but on the other hand a contract for a mediocre player making $1 million gets the blacklist and boos.

 

Lee's contract will be considered the same as Zito's, Soriano's and Zambrano's within 2 years. No pitcher is worth $20 million a year in a contract longer than 4 years. Not one has worked out well for the team. Heck, CC Sabathia's contract is already considered bad.

 

Stay far away from the big names and the team will likely be in better shape for the long and short run. Look at the payroll this year. If the Cubs were to sign Lee only the Yankees and Red Sox would have 2 pitchers making more than $18 million on the same staff.

I've read this post twice and my first suspicions were correct; literally everything you said here is wrong

 

Actually, its not but thanks for taking the time to contribute absolutely nothing to a thread.

Hang on

[javy knows my name]

Sometimes the prevailing thoughts on this board makes no sense. On one hand, people are fine with paying an overrated pitcher too much money that will have a bloated and bad contract 2 years in but on the other hand a contract for a mediocre player making $1 million gets the blacklist and boos.

 

Lee's contract will be considered the same as Zito's, Soriano's and Zambrano's within 2 years. No pitcher is worth $20 million a year in a contract longer than 4 years. Not one has worked out well for the team. Heck, CC Sabathia's contract is already considered bad.

 

Stay far away from the big names and the team will likely be in better shape for the long and short run. Look at the payroll this year. If the Cubs were to sign Lee only the Yankees and Red Sox would have 2 pitchers making more than $18 million on the same staff.

So, you're advocating signing more mediocre players who make little money over stars who make big money.

 

Mediocre players take up roster space, for one. We have a ton of young guys (most notably pitchers) who can fill in spots and match reasonably expected projections for guys like Westbrook, Milwood, etc as has been said earlier.

 

Secondly, and most importantly, we aren't a small market team who needs to budget and roll the dice on guys who, while they will only make 1-2 million/year, may underperform our young guys. With our payroll, we should be a team of either elite (and necessarily, highly-paid) talent or young, productive guys with the chance to get better in the long or short-term. We should be targeting guys like Lee, A-Gon, etc and if we can't get them, we play cheap, replacement level talent and bide our time. The Brewers, not the Cubs, should be looking at guys like Kevin [expletive] Milwood et. al.

 

Also, I have a real problem with you comparing Lee's hypothetical contract with those of Soriano, Zito and even Z. He's not going to get signed for more than probably four years, and he has as good chance as any pitcher to maintain $20M worth of production into his mid-late 30s.

[davell]

Sometimes the prevailing thoughts on this board makes no sense. On one hand, people are fine with paying an overrated pitcher too much money that will have a bloated and bad contract 2 years in but on the other hand a contract for a mediocre player making $1 million gets the blacklist and boos.

 

Lee's contract will be considered the same as Zito's, Soriano's and Zambrano's within 2 years. No pitcher is worth $20 million a year in a contract longer than 4 years. Not one has worked out well for the team. Heck, CC Sabathia's contract is already considered bad.

 

Stay far away from the big names and the team will likely be in better shape for the long and short run. Look at the payroll this year. If the Cubs were to sign Lee only the Yankees and Red Sox would have 2 pitchers making more than $18 million on the same staff.

I've read this post twice and my first suspicions were correct; literally everything you said here is wrong

 

Actually, its not but thanks for taking the time to contribute absolutely nothing to a thread.

 

 

Sabathia has done nothing to make anyone think his contract is already bad, has he? Sure, it may come back to haunt the Yanks, but not right now it's not. If you get 5 good years out of 7, then it's not even all that bad, if you ask me. And in signing big name free agents, guys that truly are impact players, it comes with the territory. You're not going to get them, if you don't give them a deal for longer than where their true value lies. And, in the end, these are the types that separate you from being an average type team to being truly a contender.(not the Yanks per se, but other teams like Texas would fall into this for me)

 

I don't think you can just say that Cliff Lee will be Barry Zito in 2 seasons either. He's in a league talent and performance wise that Zito has never sniffed. Sure, it's very likely that he'll regress some, but once again, if you can get 4 or 5 good to great years out of a guy like that, I think you consider it a win. But, you're not going to get one of the truly elite pitchers in baseball without giving him more than he's probably worth. I have zero idea as to how he's considered "overrated" either. You're going to need to explain how this is the case honestly.....

 

As for everyone bitching about someone getting a million for being an average player, I'm trying to think of an instance of this happening. If it has happened, it's almost definitely because we have had someone in the minors that was considered just as good and we just wasted a little money to get the same production we could have had for cheaper. That said, I'd like to see an example of this from you.......

[Tim M]

There's no money for Lee. I'd take Vasquez on a short-term deal.

[mike2482]

There's no money for Lee. I'd take Vasquez on a short-term deal.

 

There is money for Lee, Ricketts just wont spend it because he is too busy giving money to Sharron Angle. BeertownCubbie said it best, We are a large market team and we shouldn't worry about what are payroll is (I hope that was what you are getting at). We should not only be spending on the draft and minors but we should go after a guy like Cliff Lee even if it pushes us into the 150 million payroll mark. I understand Ricketts is a business man and he is trying to make money, but if he isn't going to get us to the promised land soon and make us competitive every year then they should have let Mark Cuban buy us.

[davell]

The reason we won't venture too close to Lee this offseason is it won't look good if we spend 200 mill(or close to it on Lee) and then ask the state for 200 mill to help out with Wrigley.

[TruffleShuffle]

It's going to be great signing someone like Milwood and an old middle reliever and than having not quite enough money to sign someone like Dunn so we can, you know, fix the real problem with this team.

 

there really isn't "the real problem" with this team. i mean, the offense was lousy last year, but the defense kind of sucked and the relief pitching was a complete disaster. the only thing that wasn't bad was the starting pitching, and lilly was traded, so now they lack depth.

[questionmarkgrace]

The reason we won't venture too close to Lee this offseason is it won't look good if we spend 200 mill(or close to it on Lee) and then ask the state for 200 mill to help out with Wrigley.

 

exactly! this is the main scare tactic of any business seeking immediate impact legislature. Make it look bad and they will back up the truck.