2010-2011 Chicago Bulls Thread

[17 Seconds]

I see everyone's primed for Deng hating. Mid season form. I'm looking forward to the bitching and moaning after he averages 18 and 7 again...

 

or we were hating on deng for his atrocious

 

What was the explanation in the off season after the season he had last year?

 

people think he's overpaid? i don't know

 

that's not the point. people in this thread were complaining about his bad game, and there's nothing wrong with that. he has a horrible game. nobody is saying deng is a bad player, even if you want to pretend we are.

 

You're probably right. It's probably just coincidence that the criticism of Deng's bad game is prominent in this thread when half the team played a fundamentally flawed game and the biggest reasons for the loss was Rose's poor shot selection and turn overs down the stretch.

 

oh god. deng got the most criticism because he was, by far, the worst of the starters tonight. he was awful. he was a mess. you haven't even denied that, you're just pretending like he's getting unfairlly criticized.

 

it's obvious that YOU were the one waiting for deng's first bad game so you could bash the people bashing him. you were alllllll ready for it and this is your chance to pretend like he's being unfairly criticized.

[scarey]

oh god. deng got the most criticism because he was, by far, the worst of the starters tonight. he was awful. he was a mess. you haven't even denied that, you're just pretending like he's getting unfairlly criticized.

 

it's obvious that YOU were the one waiting for deng's first bad game so you could bash the people bashing him. you were alllllll ready for it and this is your chance to pretend like he's being unfairly criticized.

 

It's what I live for, defending Deng. You got me pegged. I can't wait for his next bad game, we can do this all over again.

 

Sorry, let me rephrase that. We can do this alllllll over again.

[17 Seconds]

sarcastically agreeing with someone is not an effective counterargument

[Flames24Rulz]

Real GM is hilarious.

 

some of the thoughts:

-The Bulls really really suck this year.

-Rose will never be a #1 option, he's clearly a number 2 option

-Piss poor effort for Chicago tonight

 

I can't go to that board anymore. From the eternal optimism to the overreaction of one game against a very good team, that board just doesn't add up.

 

It's one game. The refs were [expletive] horrible but they took one of the best teams in the West down to the wire without Boozer. Live and learn.

[Andy]

Yeah, it's frustrating because they had an opportunity to get some separation late in the 3rd and couldn't do it and sort of went into the tank in the last few minutes, but there's no shame in losing a road game to OKC. This team will be a lot better in January, so as long as the Bulls win games they should until then, they'll be fine.

 

My lone takeaway from the game that wasn't something I already knew is that I kinda like C.J. Watson. Nice little sparkplug to have as your 7th/8th man.

[imb]

Just got back from the game, had a great time.

 

i spent the whole game thinking that rose was the best player on the court, but i just saw he took 31 shots. His jump shot looked way better, but he couldnt hit a set shot if his life depended on it.

 

Noah's shot is more hideous in person, but he makes up for it by wearing white shoes with black socks (awesome) and that bad ass samurai haircut. He also looks waaaaaaaay bigger than he was a year or two ago.

[17 Seconds]

after the first half i thought "imb is there seeing rose dominate in person, i can't wait to hear what he says about him now"

 

after the second half i thought "imb just saw rose go like 2-53 in the second half and go into z-bo mode launching up a bunch of contested garbage, i can't wait to see what he says about him now"

 

 

btw, how audible are noah's screams in person?

[imb]

he's hilarious. everyone there hated him, but i loved him.

 

we were right under the basket, basically, so might as well have been talking directly to us

[Derwood]

he's hilarious. everyone there hated him, but i loved him.

 

we were right under the basket, basically, so might as well have been talking directly to us

 

were you next to the Brick guy?

[ConstableRabbit]

after the first half i thought "imb is there seeing rose dominate in person, i can't wait to hear what he says about him now"

 

after the second half i thought "imb just saw rose go like 2-53 in the second half and go into z-bo mode launching up a bunch of contested garbage, i can't wait to see what he says about him now"

 

 

btw, how audible are noah's screams in person?

I sat courtside for a game last season and the ball got away from Noah while he was trying to inbound.

 

He yells to a cheerleader "GIVE ME THE [expletive] BALL!" and then when she hands it to him he gave this cheesy smile and said a cute "thank you."

 

It was awesome.

[imb]

he's hilarious. everyone there hated him, but i loved him.

 

we were right under the basket, basically, so might as well have been talking directly to us

 

were you next to the Brick guy?

 

Hahah, yeah, kind of. He was a couple rows in front of us.

[Wilson A2000]

Oh yea, because those guys are so easily gettable, right? And comparing Chris Kaman to Joakim Noah is a joke.

 

You said, "you can always find someone who is similar to Noah. Ok, so give us one guy similar to Noah that we'd have a realistic shot at getting if we traded for Melo. Just give us one.

 

Carmelo is a type 5 player in the league and you trade a guy who has never even made an All-Star team for him!

 

Ahh, the all-star argument. Always a sign of a person who has run out of quality arguments.

 

And Carmelo Anthony is not a top 5 player.

 

The original question was not about who is "gettable," but if there are even any players who can compete with the great Joakim Noah - available or not. And the fact is that almost every team has a guy who can do what Noah does. Maybe it takes a few years to get another center, but Noah is absolutely replaceable. If you don't get a bona fide star, you won't win a title. The Bulls won't get out of the second round of the playoffs for the next 5 years unless they make another big move.

 

I am not hating on Noah. He is a good player, but the Bulls will never win a championship with the team as presently constituted because they don't have a 1A guy. Rose is close to that, but I don't think he will be in the Kobe, Pierce, Shaq, Howard, Wade, LeBron, Duncan, and Anthony league.

 

Yeah the All Star argument. A guy who is a first or second all NBA is has a better WARP than Noah any day. It would be basketball stupid not to give up Noah for him. Horford, Nene, Tyson Chandler, Marc Gasol, and Dalembert are all FAs in July and while not quite as good as Noah are plenty serviceable and make for a better team with Carmelo.

[UMFan83]

I'm not sure where to find WARP stats for NBA players, but other metrics like win shares and PER are not heavily in favor of Anthony. I think you are really undervaluing Noah in this argument. There is not a player like Noah with all his intangibles on every team. If there was, Denver would have no desire to demand Noah in a trade for Anthony.

 

Anthony

PER 09-10: 22.2

PER 08-09: 19.0

Win shares 09-10: 7.9 (5.6 offensive, 2.4 defensive)

Win shares 08-09: 5.0 (2.4 offensive, 2.6 defensive)

Win shares per 48 mins 09-10: .145

Win shares per 48 mins 08-09: .105

 

Noah

PER 09-10: 17.9

PER 08-09: 16.5

Win shares 09-10: 6.2 (2.7 offensive, 3.5 defensive)

Win shares 08-09: 6.4 (3.8 offensive, 2.7 defensive)

Win shares per 48 mins 09-10: .159

Win shares per 48 mins 08-09: .154

 

And obvious in 08-09: Noah was playing 24 mins a night, and in 09-10 Noah played several very ineffecitve games while struggling with his foot injury.

 

Heck include Deng in the mix because that's who Melo would be replacing right? Deng had a 16.1 PER last year and 5.9 win shares (.106 per 48). Is the difference between Deng and Anthony worth taking an 18 PER center like Noah off the team?

 

BTW there were only 6 other centers in the league that played at least 60 games and had a PER more than Noah's 17.9. Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut, Andrew Bynum, Brook Lopez, Al Horford, and Marc Gasol. Tell me which of those guys we'll be able to acquire to fill the hole Noah leaves. If you can accept a slight down grade, there are 9 players besides Noah with a PER higher than 16.5, the 6 mentioned above, as well as JaVale McGee, Samuel Dalembert, and Chris Kaman. So yeah maybe you can get one of those guys, but its not like these teams are giving up players like that for nothing. After presumably trading Noah, Deng, and a 1st for Anthony, how much trade fodder do you have left?

[SpongeWorthy]

I'm not going to pretend I know what those numbers even mean or how accurate they really are but I agree with the general sentiment that Noah is more than just a glorified role player. He's a borderline all-star and could really do a reasonable prime Ben Wallace impression (with better offensive skills and less shot blocking).

[Wilson A2000]

What are the win shares if the Bulls had Horford/Anthony vs. if the Bulls had Noah/Deng based on last year? Horford and Gasol are restricted FAs next year and I don't know if Atlanta will be able to pay Horford now that they gave the big contract to Joe Johnson. Atlanta does not draw well. So you wouldn't have to give up anything for them.

 

To win a championship after last summer's free agency, you have to take risks. I just don't see this Bulls team winning a ring.

[17 Seconds]

Oh yea, because those guys are so easily gettable, right? And comparing Chris Kaman to Joakim Noah is a joke.

 

You said, "you can always find someone who is similar to Noah. Ok, so give us one guy similar to Noah that we'd have a realistic shot at getting if we traded for Melo. Just give us one.

 

Carmelo is a type 5 player in the league and you trade a guy who has never even made an All-Star team for him!

 

Ahh, the all-star argument. Always a sign of a person who has run out of quality arguments.

 

And Carmelo Anthony is not a top 5 player.

 

The original question was not about who is "gettable," but if there are even any players who can compete with the great Joakim Noah - available or not. And the fact is that almost every team has a guy who can do what Noah does. Maybe it takes a few years to get another center, but Noah is absolutely replaceable. If you don't get a bona fide star, you won't win a title. The Bulls won't get out of the second round of the playoffs for the next 5 years unless they make another big move.

 

I am not hating on Noah. He is a good player, but the Bulls will never win a championship with the team as presently constituted because they don't have a 1A guy. Rose is close to that, but I don't think he will be in the Kobe, Pierce, Shaq, Howard, Wade, LeBron, Duncan, and Anthony league.

 

You know who hasn't gotten out of the second round of the playoffs? Carmelo Anthony. In fact, he's only gotten out of the first round once.

[Wilson A2000]

If he is traded to the Bulls he won't have that problem anymore.

[UMFan83]

What are the win shares if the Bulls had Horford/Anthony vs. if the Bulls had Noah/Deng based on last year? Horford and Gasol are restricted FAs next year and I don't know if Atlanta will be able to pay Horford now that they gave the big contract to Joe Johnson. Atlanta does not draw well. So you wouldn't have to give up anything for them.

 

To win a championship after last summer's free agency, you have to take risks. I just don't see this Bulls team winning a ring.

 

I don't know, but what I do know is that the Bulls won't be able to outbid Atlanta as well as each of the other teams that I'm sure would love to sign Horford. Maybe if the Hawks were willing to take players like Watson or Korver in a sign and trade, but there's no guarantee.

 

There's no doubt that Melo is a great player and a great scorer. The Bulls would immediately have a solution to many of their offensive issues if we got Melo. But Melo isn't on that LeBron/Kobe/Howard tier that some people seem to think he's on. Actually, he's not even really as close as many people assume he is. An all star, yes. I don't think Noah is a better player than Anthony. I don't think the Bulls as constructed can sniff the championship, even if the Miami Heat randomly disappeared tonight. And while I had some objections to some of the stuff you said earlier, I do not necessarily think there is a clear right or wrong answer on the issue. My opinion is that while Melo would help the Bulls immensely, I don't necessarily think that the Bulls need someone the caliber of Melo to get in that contender discussion. I think if you can find someone 80% of Melo's caliber they can still get into that championship discussion. Is that extra 20% worth giving up someone like Noah? In my opinion no because I highly value what Noah brings to this team, and like I said above I think if you could acquire someone like lets say Jason Richardson, we'd still be in the title hunt. Melo without Noah? Not so much.

[bcl412]

I really wish the Bulls had an offensive threat when Rose is struggling and the refs aren't too impressive right now.

[Wilson A2000]

I really wish the Bulls had an offensive threat when Rose is struggling and the refs aren't too impressive right now.

 

Give it to Noah and just clear out. :D

[17 Seconds]

new year, new look, same old garbage ass product

 

i can't help but feel like the boozer injury killed this season. with the brutal upcoming schedule, our record is going to suck by the time he comes back. then it will take another month for him to gel. then he'll probably just get hurt again anyways

 

before the boozer injury i thought 48-50 wins. now it feels like 43-45

[17 Seconds]

loul deng is SO [expletive] SOFT. DUNK THE BALL

[17 Seconds]

k yea we need melo.

 

every single possession is exactly the same. rose penetrating or rose pulling up for a mid range jumper. that's literally ALL we have without boozer.

[SpongeWorthy]

Yikes.

[17 Seconds]

we'll live and die by rose until boozer gets back (and before he gets hurt again)

 

it's as simple as that really.