A-Ram to the Braves?

[davearm2]

Why are we trying to trade Ramirez?

Nothing against Ramirez specifically, but after this season and last, I'm ready for a radically different Cubs team.

 

I like Ramirez, Z, Lee, etc. but it's time for a new direction. Out with the old, in with the new -- manager, GM, and core group of players.

 

While I'm in total agreement on a new direction with new management and a core group of players, I don't see a reason to do anything with Ramirez. No team will want to give up much for him if 2012 vests at 16m. He's coming off a rough season. That's also ignoring he can still block any trade he wants to. I think the team would be better off showing support and not putting him on the market. Maybe he comes into 2012 better prepared and wanting to impress under new management. It is a free agent year, afterall.

You are correct that the guy has virtually no trade value due to the 2012 vesting clause. The tide has turned in baseball such that $16M has become an enormous burden again.

 

Ideally, Ramirez would opt out of his deal this fall, and the Cubs would then say thank you and good luck. Short of that I guess you just let him play it out next year and then move on.

 

Or ideally we find a spot to keep him and his bat healthy.

 

Aram can't stay healthy at 3rd, put him at 1st, grab Beltre or see if Znik in Seattle will give away Figgins + $. If we're keeping Hendry let's at least see if he can strike gold twice.

The notion that playing 1B would keep Ramirez healthy is pretty silly. DH perhaps, but that obviously does the Cubs no good.

[Southpaw191679666239]

I'm surprised no one mentioned this yet.

 

From ROTO:

 

A source tells Talking Chop that the Braves are trying to make a run at Aramis Ramirez.

It gets more interesting. According to the report, the Braves had an overslot agreement in place to sign 18th-round pick Zach Alvord, however they have nixed the deal in order to land a higher priced waiver claim. The source tells Talking Chop that the Braves are in talks with the Cubs to acquire Ramirez should he pass through waivers. Ramirez, 32, is making $15.75 million this year and has a $14.6 million player option for 2011. It's all hypothetical right now, but the Braves would likely want some sort of assurance that he wouldn't exercise the option since Chipper Jones is expected to make a comeback.

[UMFan83]

Interesting. Have no idea what we could get for Ramirez at this point.

[Sammy Sofa]

Doesn't his option automatically kick in if he's traded?

[Burtonbell]

I just checked my yahoo fantasy team since I do have Aram. Here is what they have listed from rotowire:

 

New player notes Tue, Aug 17

 

Atlanta and Chicago discussed a trade for Ramirez, but he was unwilling to adjust his contract, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports.

 

Recommendation: It sounds like the two sides talked about a trade before the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline, so a trade of Ramirez to the Braves before September is unlikely. Ramirez will make $14.6 million in 2011 and his $16 million option for 2012 becomes guaranteed if he's traded. His contract makes him unlikely to be traded in September if he does clear waivers.

(Rotowire.com)

[CubColtPacer]

Doesn't his option automatically kick in if he's traded?

 

His club option does for after 2011, but that's only if he exercises his player option after this year. He could still opt out if he wants to.

[Sammy Sofa]

Doesn't his option automatically kick in if he's traded?

 

His club option does for after 2011, but that's only if he exercises his player option after this year. He could still opt out if he wants to.

 

Gotcha. Thanks.

[lumafia]

Well, if it is true that Aramis killed the deal, we learned a couple of things about him.

 

1. He's more interested in getting paid than winning a championship.

2. He has as little faith in his career getting back on track as we do.

[Clem Fandango]

So we had deals that would've send Aramis and Lee packing but they both put the kibosh them? I'm kinda pissed that no details of these proposed trades have leaked, such as who we would be getting in return. Everyone knows the Angels were gonna get Lee and everyone knows the Braves were gonna get Aramis... who the [expletive] were we gonna get?

[javy knows my name]

Well, if it is true that Aramis killed the deal, we learned a couple of things about him.

 

1. He's more interested in getting paid than winning a championship.

2. He has as little faith in his career getting back on track as we do.

Hey, I just learned a few things about you, too

[KingCubsFan]

Well, if it is true that Aramis killed the deal, we learned a couple of things about him.

 

1. He's more interested in getting paid than winning a championship.

2. He has as little faith in his career getting back on track as we do.

He already gave up $30 million when he was a free agent to resign with the Cubs. You expect him to give up another $30 million to a) play for a team that may or may not make the playoffs and b) enter a depressed free agent market with no guarantee of a multiyear deal?

[daske17]

Well, if it is true that Aramis killed the deal, we learned a couple of things about him.

 

1. He's more interested in getting paid than winning a championship.

2. He has as little faith in his career getting back on track as we do.

He already gave up $30 million when he was a free agent to resign with the Cubs. You expect him to give up another $30 million to a) play for a team that may or may not make the playoffs and b) enter a depressed free agent market with no guarantee of a multiyear deal?

 

Especially considering his injury history. He'll sign on for next year using his player option and hopefully we'll get a "free agency" type year out of him.

[davearm2]

Well, if it is true that Aramis killed the deal, we learned a couple of things about him.

 

1. He's more interested in getting paid than winning a championship.

2. He has as little faith in his career getting back on track as we do.

Easy to pass judgement when it's not your $30M

[lumafia]

Well, if it is true that Aramis killed the deal, we learned a couple of things about him.

 

1. He's more interested in getting paid than winning a championship.

2. He has as little faith in his career getting back on track as we do.

He already gave up $30 million when he was a free agent to resign with the Cubs. You expect him to give up another $30 million to a) play for a team that may or may not make the playoffs and b) enter a depressed free agent market with no guarantee of a multiyear deal?

 

You're assuming that he would have gotten his asking price, which is exactly what Beltran got. He was never going to get as much as Beltran. And he is really only leaving $14 mil on the table since next year is a player option, and he will never get the club option from the Cubs anyway. With contracts shrinking, the only way the Cubs pick up the 2012 option is if they are very competitive after next year and Ramirez somehow puts up MVP type numbers again.

 

Only 3 third basemen have made more money than Aramis Ramirez in MLB. A-Rod, Rolen and Chipper Jones. And he's made only $2 million less than Pujols.

[davell]

I guess I look at this a little differently. It's not 30 mill that's guaranteed to him(unless we trade him obviously it vests). I would have thought Aramis would have waived the player option in 2012 to play for a team that has a better chance at winning now than what we do. Because in all likelihood, we aren't going to give him that option anyway, come 2012. He'll get his 14.6 next year from us, or whoever had conceivably traded for him, along with the 2 mill buyout. I don't see why the club option would matter all that to him, if it looked like we wouldn't pick it up anyway. I would think having a chance to win would trump playing here for a very average, if not worse team, next season.

[KingCubsFan]

Well, if it is true that Aramis killed the deal, we learned a couple of things about him.

 

1. He's more interested in getting paid than winning a championship.

2. He has as little faith in his career getting back on track as we do.

He already gave up $30 million when he was a free agent to resign with the Cubs. You expect him to give up another $30 million to a) play for a team that may or may not make the playoffs and b) enter a depressed free agent market with no guarantee of a multiyear deal?

 

You're assuming that he would have gotten his asking price, which is exactly what Beltran got. He was never going to get as much as Beltran. And he is really only leaving $14 mil on the table since next year is a player option, and he will never get the club option from the Cubs anyway. With contracts shrinking, the only way the Cubs pick up the 2012 option is if they are very competitive after next year and Ramirez somehow puts up MVP type numbers again.

 

Only 3 third basemen have made more money than Aramis Ramirez in MLB. A-Rod, Rolen and Chipper Jones. And he's made only $2 million less than Pujols.

IIRC, the Angels offered him over $100 million and he turned it down to go back to the Cubs. And if he's traded, he's not just leaving $14 million on the table because his 2012 option vests as well. According to the link above, the Braves would have wanted him to rip up the last two years of his deal.

[lumafia]

Well, if it is true that Aramis killed the deal, we learned a couple of things about him.

 

1. He's more interested in getting paid than winning a championship.

2. He has as little faith in his career getting back on track as we do.

He already gave up $30 million when he was a free agent to resign with the Cubs. You expect him to give up another $30 million to a) play for a team that may or may not make the playoffs and b) enter a depressed free agent market with no guarantee of a multiyear deal?

 

You're assuming that he would have gotten his asking price, which is exactly what Beltran got. He was never going to get as much as Beltran. And he is really only leaving $14 mil on the table since next year is a player option, and he will never get the club option from the Cubs anyway. With contracts shrinking, the only way the Cubs pick up the 2012 option is if they are very competitive after next year and Ramirez somehow puts up MVP type numbers again.

 

Only 3 third basemen have made more money than Aramis Ramirez in MLB. A-Rod, Rolen and Chipper Jones. And he's made only $2 million less than Pujols.

IIRC, the Angels offered him over $100 million and he turned it down to go back to the Cubs. And if he's traded, he's not just leaving $14 million on the table because his 2012 option vests as well. According to the link above, the Braves would have wanted him to rip up the last two years of his deal.

 

IIRC, the Cubs re-signed Aramis while the Cubs had the exclusive rights to negotiate with him, meaning he never got an offer from another team.

 

What I'm saying is that Aramis will never get the 2012 option if he stays with the Cubs, so how is he "giving it up" if he gets traded somewhere else? I just can't see how a guy who has made almost $85 million in 12 years is worried about giving up $16 mil. Unless he knows that he is done.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

IIRC, the Cubs re-signed Aramis while the Cubs had the exclusive rights to negotiate with him, meaning he never got an offer from another team.

You're not recalling correctly.

[CubColtPacer]

IIRC, the Cubs re-signed Aramis while the Cubs had the exclusive rights to negotiate with him, meaning he never got an offer from another team.

You're not recalling correctly.

 

It was really close. I believe the negotiations went on past midnight (which meant the deadline did pass) but the contract was signed either late that night or that next morning.

 

But there was a report that the Angels were going to give Aramis a 100 million dollar offer as soon as the deadline passed. Hendry also was quoted that Aramis turned down 20 to 30 million dollars extra by signing his deal.

 

Edit: Looks like I was a bit off on the time as well. It was reported that he signed at about 3:15 in the afternoon on that first day after the Cubs lost exclusive rights. It's uncertain when the contract was actually worked out but there certainly would have been some time for others to make offers.

[SouthSideRyan]

Well, if it is true that Aramis killed the deal, we learned a couple of things about him.

 

1. He's more interested in getting paid than winning a championship.

2. He has as little faith in his career getting back on track as we do.

He already gave up $30 million when he was a free agent to resign with the Cubs. You expect him to give up another $30 million to a) play for a team that may or may not make the playoffs and b) enter a depressed free agent market with no guarantee of a multiyear deal?

 

You're assuming that he would have gotten his asking price, which is exactly what Beltran got. He was never going to get as much as Beltran. And he is really only leaving $14 mil on the table since next year is a player option, and he will never get the club option from the Cubs anyway. With contracts shrinking, the only way the Cubs pick up the 2012 option is if they are very competitive after next year and Ramirez somehow puts up MVP type numbers again.

 

Only 3 third basemen have made more money than Aramis Ramirez in MLB. A-Rod, Rolen and Chipper Jones. And he's made only $2 million less than Pujols.

IIRC, the Angels offered him over $100 million and he turned it down to go back to the Cubs. And if he's traded, he's not just leaving $14 million on the table because his 2012 option vests as well. According to the link above, the Braves would have wanted him to rip up the last two years of his deal.

 

IIRC, the Cubs re-signed Aramis while the Cubs had the exclusive rights to negotiate with him, meaning he never got an offer from another team.

 

What I'm saying is that Aramis will never get the 2012 option if he stays with the Cubs, so how is he "giving it up" if he gets traded somewhere else? I just can't see how a guy who has made almost $85 million in 12 years is worried about giving up $16 mil. Unless he knows that he is done.

 

Maybe he doesn't want to leave Chicago

[lumafia]

IIRC, the Cubs re-signed Aramis while the Cubs had the exclusive rights to negotiate with him, meaning he never got an offer from another team.

You're not recalling correctly.

 

It was really close. I believe the negotiations went on past midnight (which meant the deadline did pass) but the contract was signed either late that night or that next morning.

 

But there was a report that the Angels were going to give Aramis a 100 million dollar offer as soon as the deadline passed. Hendry also was quoted that Aramis turned down 20 to 30 million dollars extra by signing his deal.

 

Edit: Looks like I was a bit off on the time as well. It was reported that he signed at about 3:15 in the afternoon on that first day after the Cubs lost exclusive rights. It's uncertain when the contract was actually worked out but there certainly would have been some time for others to make offers.

 

The deal Aramis signed was for $91 million if you include the 2012 team option. There were several ways for that option to automatically vest even without a trade. His contract had award bonuses, and he also received a $5 million signing bonus. Not too far off from the 100 million dollar offer that Hendry said he was getting from the Angels, which was always speculation.

 

He got a fair deal when he signed, and he isn't leaving money on the table by accepting a trade and waiving the 2012 option that he hasn't already lost. I'm not passing judgement as much as I am just pointing out the obvious.

[dew1679666265]

So we had deals that would've send Aramis and Lee packing but they both put the kibosh them? I'm kinda pissed that no details of these proposed trades have leaked, such as who we would be getting in return. Everyone knows the Angels were gonna get Lee and everyone knows the Braves were gonna get Aramis... who the [expletive] were we gonna get?

 

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing somewhere that we would have gotten 2 "good" prospects from the Angels for Lee. No indication on who those "good" prospects were, though.

[NoDak]

I think all this talk about Aramis not taking his player option is pretty far-fetched. I am pretty sure his agent would say something like:

"Aramis, you cannot 'opt out' of your contract if you know what's good for you. You are a 32-year old 3B whose reputation (deserved or not) is of a marginal defensive 3B. You missed half of last season with a separated shoulder. Your OPS+ has dropped by over 35% since last year. This is not the time to 'see what your value is on the open market.' I assure you it will be disappointed. Sit tight. Play your best and collect your pay-check. Given the chance take a trade which would GUARANTEE your club option is picked up. Not to mention a much greater chance to play in the post-season."