Re: 04.15.10 - That's so Mark

[Rob]

Samardzija last year = Cashner this year

 

Let the raw guys get their reps, dammit.

 

I don't see that as a particularly good comparison. Samardiza's struggles are about the fact that he sucks, not that he's raw. Cashner was considered a close to major league ready reliever by many when he was drafted. He's been dominant in short stints and all the issues have been of the 5th/6th inning variety. If he's used properly in the big leagues he could easily be a 2-3 inning per outing guy who gets plenty of work this season. It doesn't have to be a "lost season" if he goes to the bullpen. Now, if he only throws once a week and gets banished for a couple walks here and there that would be a problem. But if he's used there's nothing wrong with him being on the roster.

 

Samardzija sucks because he doesn't have secondary pitches he can get major league hitters out with. That's in large part becuase Lou freaked out last season and demanded he be put in the bullpen instead of leaving him in the minors to work on the secondary stuff.

 

Yes, Cashner does have a better secondary stuff already. But his command is spotty. That's a recipe for disaster in Lou's bullpen. Why take a potential ace starter and put him in a position where you know you are very very likely to stunt his development after that first two walk inning leaves him riding the pine for the next two weeks?

[jersey cubs fan]

Yes, Cashner does have a better secondary stuff already. But his command is spotty. That's a recipe for disaster in Lou's bullpen. Why take a potential ace starter and put him in a position where you know you are very very likely to stunt his development after that first two walk inning leaves him riding the pine for the next two weeks?

 

Because A) the remedy to that is quite simple in that you can just as easily send him back to the minors, and B) we are still a long way off from him being an ace starter.

 

He can get plenty of work in the majors and it does not have to be much more than a blip on his developmental path. Pitchers are such volatile commodities, that there is plenty of justification in getting value out of them when you can instead of wishing on some far off date when they might be a 35 start 200 inning pitcher.

[Guest]

How about we exhaust our reliever options who have had success as relievers at higher levels before messing with Cashner? We only have 3 of them in AAA, to speak nothing of the fact that we're deeming several guys in the MLB pen failures after 10 days of games.

[jersey cubs fan]

How about we exhaust our reliever options who have had success as relievers at higher levels before messing with Cashner? We only have 3 of them in AAA, to speak nothing of the fact that we're deeming several guys in the MLB pen failures after 10 days of games.

 

Guys like Samardzija are failures based on their careers. And the rest of the bullpen is just a hodgepodge of names. I still don't understand why Caridad was just given a job, and this Gray guy has done next to nothing. They could call up Gaub but something tells me they aren't going to want 4 lefties in the bullpen, which is supposedly Gorzolanny's next stop after Lilly returns. They don't really have a huge supply to draw on, and if Cashner is the best option there's really very little reason not to give him the job.

[Guest]

How about we exhaust our reliever options who have had success as relievers at higher levels before messing with Cashner? We only have 3 of them in AAA, to speak nothing of the fact that we're deeming several guys in the MLB pen failures after 10 days of games.

 

Guys like Samardzija are failures based on their careers. And the rest of the bullpen is just a hodgepodge of names. I still don't understand why Caridad was just given a job, and this Gray guy has done next to nothing. They could call up Gaub but something tells me they aren't going to want 4 lefties in the bullpen, which is supposedly Gorzolanny's next stop after Lilly returns. They don't really have a huge supply to draw on, and if Cashner is the best option there's really very little reason not to give him the job.

 

Cashner has less than 70 innings above Daytona. He's a starter. Guys like Gray, Gaub, Stevens, and Parker are no worse of a gamble for bullpen performance, and they have had success at higher levels than Cashner, and aren't starters or developing prospects. Even a guy like Caridad was awesome in 14 appearances last year, and now we're going to deem him a failure because of 4 outings? Not that he's even the best option(I've wanted Stevens/Parker instead), but it illustrates how short sighted it is to reconfigure the bullpen after 10 days, especially when it interrupts the development of a guy like Cashner. And lastly, if you don't care about hurting the development of someone, why not call up Jay Jackson? He's a more finished product at a higher level. The whole thought process is nonsensical.

[jersey cubs fan]

Cashner has less than 70 innings above Daytona. He's a starter. Guys like Gray, Gaub, Stevens, and Parker are no worse of a gamble for bullpen performance, and they have had success at higher levels than Cashner, and aren't starters or developing prospects. Even a guy like Caridad was awesome in 14 appearances last year, and now we're going to deem him a failure because of 4 outings? Not that he's even the best option(I've wanted Stevens/Parker instead), but it illustrates how short sighted it is to reconfigure the bullpen after 10 days, especially when it interrupts the development of a guy like Cashner. And lastly, if you don't care about hurting the development of someone, why not call up Jay Jackson? He's a more finished product at a higher level. The whole thought process is nonsensical.

 

The hysterics over this are nonsensical. It isn't going to kill his chances at future success. Bringing Jay Jackson up is just dumb. And again, all those guys are just names, and Caridad hasn't just struggled, he's on the DL.

[Guest]

Cashner has less than 70 innings above Daytona. He's a starter. Guys like Gray, Gaub, Stevens, and Parker are no worse of a gamble for bullpen performance, and they have had success at higher levels than Cashner, and aren't starters or developing prospects. Even a guy like Caridad was awesome in 14 appearances last year, and now we're going to deem him a failure because of 4 outings? Not that he's even the best option(I've wanted Stevens/Parker instead), but it illustrates how short sighted it is to reconfigure the bullpen after 10 days, especially when it interrupts the development of a guy like Cashner. And lastly, if you don't care about hurting the development of someone, why not call up Jay Jackson? He's a more finished product at a higher level. The whole thought process is nonsensical.

 

The hysterics over this are nonsensical. It isn't going to kill his chances at future success. Bringing Jay Jackson up is just dumb. And again, all those guys are just names, and Caridad hasn't just struggled, he's on the DL.

 

They're just names? What are you even saying? Gaub, Stevens, and Parker have been very good as relievers, and if you wanted more filler guys like Caridad/Gray, then Mitch Atkins is at Iowa too. I did forget that Caridad went down, but the logic applies. He and Gray are being written off as guys who will never contribute because of a week and a half. There is no logical argument that makes sense for Cashner to be the next guy up. You want performance? Well Cashner has been awesome in two starts, but he was thoroughly mediocre in a longer stint in AA last year. Meanwhile, Parker/Stevens/Gaub were all as good or better as relievers at a higher level. You want stuff? Cashner's stuff is phenomenal, but again, Parker/Stevens/Gaub aren't soft-tossers, they have the stuff to be capable relievers. And if it was stuff you were after then no one would be as pissed as they are with Samardzija. If you're that disinterested in Parker/Stevens/Gaub, then why not Jay Jackson? The same logic that applies to Cashner applies to him, and he's been more successful at higher levels.

[TruffleShuffle]

i'm fairly certain that gaub could be a solid contributor in the bullpen right now, though he will walk some people, and that will get lou's panties in a bunch. but his minor league stats: 131.0 IP, 84 H, 8 HR, 68 BB, 184 K - suggest a guy who has big league stuff. you don't pile up a .186 BAA and 12.64 K/9IP on luck and guile.

 

parker and stevens are pretty similar too, both RHP with some control issues, but pretty tough to hit and strong K rates. stevens has fairly neutral splits against RH/LH batters whereas parker has been more dominant against same-side hitters.

[Keener98]

Lou says the Cashner talk "greatly exaggerated".

 

Reports of former No. 1 draft choice Andrew Cashner joining the Cubs bullpen soon seem to be greatly exaggerated.

 

"It surprised me," manager Lou Piniella said the newspaper report. "I think I learn more from reading newspapers than I do talking to my front office. I don't know where that came from.

 

"We get minor league reports and he's had two really nice starts, but outside of that his name has not been discussed."

 

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/04/andrew-cashner-not-yet-for-cubs.html

[Sammy Sofa]

Shut up, Lou. Ugh, I can't wait until he's gone.

[Rob]

Cashner has less than 70 innings above Daytona. He's a starter. Guys like Gray, Gaub, Stevens, and Parker are no worse of a gamble for bullpen performance, and they have had success at higher levels than Cashner, and aren't starters or developing prospects. Even a guy like Caridad was awesome in 14 appearances last year, and now we're going to deem him a failure because of 4 outings? Not that he's even the best option(I've wanted Stevens/Parker instead), but it illustrates how short sighted it is to reconfigure the bullpen after 10 days, especially when it interrupts the development of a guy like Cashner. And lastly, if you don't care about hurting the development of someone, why not call up Jay Jackson? He's a more finished product at a higher level. The whole thought process is nonsensical.

 

The hysterics over this are nonsensical. It isn't going to kill his chances at future success. Bringing Jay Jackson up is just dumb. And again, all those guys are just names, and Caridad hasn't just struggled, he's on the DL.

 

Funny that you chose that wording. I think the only reason you want Cashner instead of those other guys is because of his name.

[Old Style]

Cashner was a closer at TCU. At least he was his SR year when I saw him pitch.

[Rob]

Cashner was a closer at TCU. At least he was his SR year when I saw him pitch.

 

Indeed he was.

[Outshined_One]

Cashner was a closer at TCU. At least he was his SR year when I saw him pitch.

 

He was a starter prior to transferring to TCU from junior college.