Re: Starlin Castro making decision tough on Chicago Cubs

[Shilzzz]

Sandberg's a career .285 hitter, of course he'd make a good hitting instructor

 

haha. awesome.

[biittner77]

Sandberg came up as a middle infielder without a lot of power. He credited Jim Frey with teaching him how to hit for more power. I think he'd at least try to pass along what he knew to Castro. Whether that's a good thing or not is debatable. Frey *I think* taught him how to recognize pitches that he could drive (that's what Sandberg said at the time iirc) and the result was an impressive 1984 season with something like 17 triples, 19 HRs and over 20 doubles.

[Sammy Sofa]

It was either Frey or the steroids.

[TruffleShuffle]

between april and june, how much better could castro be at ss than theriot, or how much difference would there be between theriot and fontenot/baker (if theriot usurped the 2b spot)? maybe half a win? plus theriot tends to hit better early in the season and then tail off in august/september as he gets worn down. i just don't see enough evidence to warrant keeping castro on the big club and burning a year off his arbitration clock. even if castro ends up being a league-average ss it will still be a money waste in the long run. send him to iowa and give him some time with von joshua; if he's performing well and there is a need on the big league club, then give him a shot in the second half.

[fivepercent]

+1

[Magnetic Curses]

can castro even be considered our top prospect? if he were putting up monster numbers in the minors then we could consider bringing him up at 19, but he's not. is the team's perspective that warped that they'd think of doing such a thing?

 

a "can't miss" i can understand, but he's not really much more than a guy at this point.

[CUBZ99]

can castro even be considered our top prospect? if he were putting up monster numbers in the minors then we could consider bringing him up at 19, but he's not. is the team's perspective that warped that they'd think of doing such a thing?

 

a "can't miss" i can understand, but he's not really much more than a guy at this point.

 

How is it possible that he isn't the top prospect? A 19 yr old SS, that plays very good defense, has a cannon for an arm and makes great contact at the plate. Watching him play today, you could see why everyone is excited about him. He seemed to have incredible range and got to one that I'm guessing Theriot wouldn't have gotten to. Same play he almost threw the guy out at first and probably would have if Lee were playing 1B instead of Hoffpauir.

 

The only knock on him at this point, is that he doesn't hit for much power. It should be a simple decision, just as with Cashner. If he makes the team better he should be playing with the club.

[Geech]

The only knock on him at this point, is that he doesn't hit for much power. It should be a simple decision, just as with Cashner. If he makes the team better he should be playing with the club.

 

That's not actually very likely. Castro hit .288/.347/.396 at AA. That translates to a .226 EqA at the majors. He definitely needs some more seasoning before he's ready to help the team.

[TruffleShuffle]

The only knock on him at this point, is that he doesn't hit for much power.

 

he also doesn't walk much. from following his games in the AFL and this spring, it seems like he's an early-in-the-count hitter. so if he keeps beating up on first pitches he'll start seeing more junk early, but he also seems to have pretty good judgment at the plate and able to lay off those.

[Magnetic Curses]

can castro even be considered our top prospect? if he were putting up monster numbers in the minors then we could consider bringing him up at 19, but he's not. is the team's perspective that warped that they'd think of doing such a thing?

 

a "can't miss" i can understand, but he's not really much more than a guy at this point.

 

How is it possible that he isn't the top prospect? A 19 yr old SS, that plays very good defense, has a cannon for an arm and makes great contact at the plate. Watching him play today, you could see why everyone is excited about him. He seemed to have incredible range and got to one that I'm guessing Theriot wouldn't have gotten to. Same play he almost threw the guy out at first and probably would have if Lee were playing 1B instead of Hoffpauir.

 

The only knock on him at this point, is that he doesn't hit for much power. It should be a simple decision, just as with Cashner. If he makes the team better he should be playing with the club.

 

at the very most it's debatable that he's the top prospect. BP has Vitters as our #1.

 

as for defense, that's not my top priority. there have been plenty of slick-fielding SS's in the league, most of them journeymen.

 

what i want to see is power, power is a steady and predictable attribute of excellence. most everything else is highly contaminated by luck. he hasn't posted any real numbers at any level that would make me think he should be brought up at the age of 19 or be treated as anything more than a decent prospect.

[TruffleShuffle]

what i want to see is power, power is a steady and predictable attribute of excellence.

 

not really... there have been tons of guys like brad eldred, bob hamelin, etc. who hit for lots of power but didn't make enough contact to be adequate major league ballplayers. power is a good tool to have, but ability to make hard contact with good regularity and put the ball in play most of the time is an important skill. for a 19 year old to be able to put the ball in play as much as castro does speaks well to his future development.

 

also, derek jeter hit 16 home runs in 454 minor league games.

[Guest]

as for defense, that's not my top priority. there have been plenty of slick-fielding SS's in the league, most of them journeymen.

 

what i want to see is power, power is a steady and predictable attribute of excellence. most everything else is highly contaminated by luck. he hasn't posted any real numbers at any level that would make me think he should be brought up at the age of 19 or be treated as anything more than a decent prospect.

 

He's a 19 year old international SS. Power is a lower priority and will always be the last thing to come to a player like Castro.

 

Castro's defense may not be your priority, but it adds value to as a prospect. As for Castro being BABIP dependent, his low K rate means he wasn't BABIP lucky last year. And again, at 19 in AA being able to add value and have strong peripherals(low K's, decent BB, low pop ups, high LD) means he's very rare. The fangraphs article on him found his best comparisons thus far are like Jose Reyes and Robbie Alomar. He's worthy of his elite status.

[Magnetic Curses]

what i want to see is power, power is a steady and predictable attribute of excellence.

 

not really... there have been tons of guys like brad eldred, bob hamelin, etc. who hit for lots of power but didn't make enough contact to be adequate major league ballplayers. power is a good tool to have, but ability to make hard contact with good regularity and put the ball in play most of the time is an important skill. for a 19 year old to be able to put the ball in play as much as castro does speaks well to his future development.

 

also, derek jeter hit 16 home runs in 454 minor league games.

 

hitting for power doesn't necessarily mean just home runs. as far as the brad eldreds and bob hamelins go, power alone doesn't make you a top prospect and even if it were no one is really a sure thing, but it's good predictor of future success.

[Magnetic Curses]

as for defense, that's not my top priority. there have been plenty of slick-fielding SS's in the league, most of them journeymen.

 

what i want to see is power, power is a steady and predictable attribute of excellence. most everything else is highly contaminated by luck. he hasn't posted any real numbers at any level that would make me think he should be brought up at the age of 19 or be treated as anything more than a decent prospect.

 

He's a 19 year old international SS. Power is a lower priority and will always be the last thing to come to a player like Castro.

 

Castro's defense may not be your priority, but it adds value to as a prospect. As for Castro being BABIP dependent, his low K rate means he wasn't BABIP lucky last year. And again, at 19 in AA being able to add value and have strong peripherals(low K's, decent BB, low pop ups, high LD) means he's very rare. The fangraphs article on him found his best comparisons thus far are like Jose Reyes and Robbie Alomar. He's worthy of his elite status.

 

what other prospects would have seen comparisons like those?

 

i'm just skeptical as to when his power is going to show up or when the cubs will be able to produce something rare.

[TruffleShuffle]

what i want to see is power, power is a steady and predictable attribute of excellence.

 

not really... there have been tons of guys like brad eldred, bob hamelin, etc. who hit for lots of power but didn't make enough contact to be adequate major league ballplayers. power is a good tool to have, but ability to make hard contact with good regularity and put the ball in play most of the time is an important skill. for a 19 year old to be able to put the ball in play as much as castro does speaks well to his future development.

 

also, derek jeter hit 16 home runs in 454 minor league games.

 

hitting for power doesn't necessarily mean just home runs. as far as the brad eldreds and bob hamelins go, power alone doesn't make you a top prospect and even if it were no one is really a sure thing, but it's good predictor of future success.

 

right, and castro had 23 doubles, 6 triples and 3 homers last year. that's not too far from jeter's age 19 season (14 doubles, 11 triples, 5 homers) or even his age 21 season (31 doubles, 10 triples, 2 homers). and you seem hung up on the power thing, but there are other things that are strongly correlated to future success, some of which include playing well as one of the youngest players in a league, making hard contact consistently and keeping the strikeout rate low.

 

the fact that he hit 32 XBHs as one of the youngest players in two pitchers leagues speaks well to developing some power down the road. he's not going to weigh 160 lbs forever.

[Clem Fandango]

It's not that he's putting up eye popping numbers, it's that he's putting up very respectable numbers at an age and level he has no right putting up very respectable numbers at, while playing defense at an above average MLB level. If you drop him back down to an age appropriate level he's gonna rake, but no matter what level they play him at he holds his own, and this was when he was still a teenager. It's his ability to hang in an upper level at such a young age that makes him our top prospect. Vitters might have more of an offensive impact earlier than Castro, but given Castro's age, position, and defensive prowess it makes Castro far more valuable, and as such our top prospect

[sneakypower]

at the very most it's debatable that he's the top prospect. BP has Vitters as our #1.

 

as for defense, that's not my top priority. there have been plenty of slick-fielding SS's in the league, most of them journeymen.

 

what i want to see is power, power is a steady and predictable attribute of excellence. most everything else is highly contaminated by luck. he hasn't posted any real numbers at any level that would make me think he should be brought up at the age of 19 or be treated as anything more than a decent prospect.

i don't know how somebody could justify having Vitters higher

 

i'd love to see even one previous instance of a guy having a 200 game stretch in the minors with a 4.6:1 or worse K:BB ratio and becoming successful. the worst players i can think of, like the Francoeurs, Pattersons and Miguel Olivos, never even approached that in the minors. for Vitters to have success would be thoroughly unprecedented

[SouthSideRyan]

Didn't Goldstein have Vitters higher?

[sneakypower]

yeah, that's what sulley said. i can't understand it.

[Sever82]

Some of you have to realize he's 19yrs old 6'1 and 160lbs. Keith Law if i remember correctly, in one of his chats said that many scouts expect Castro to develop power because he still hasn't filled out physically. They expect the guy to be 6'2 and about 190lbs when he matures at about age 21. I think his wrists are the most impressive, not saying he'll develop into him but the way he handles the bat reminds me a lot of Manny Ramirez. I think with time he'll be more patient and pick his pitches better, if he fills out like he's expected to, i think he'll have pretty good power.

 

As for the one more year of arbitration, to me it makes no sense to keep this kid in the minors one year longer just because it saves you some money. I mean the cubs aren't the KC Royals, they're a big market team, so stuff like that shouldn't matter. I highly doubt the Yankees would hold Montero back if they feel he's ready just save themselves one more year of eligibility.

[jersey cubs fan]

Some of you have to realize he's 19yrs old 6'1 and 160lbs. Keith Law if i remember correctly, in one of his chats said that many scouts expect Castro to develop power because he still hasn't filled out physically. They expect the guy to be 6'2 and about 190lbs when he matures at about age 21. I think his wrists are the most impressive, not saying he'll develop into him but the way he handles the bat reminds me a lot of Manny Ramirez. I think with time he'll be more patient and pick his pitches better, if he fills out like he's expected to, i think he'll have pretty good power.

 

As for the one more year of arbitration, to me it makes no sense to keep this kid in the minors one year longer just because it saves you some money. I mean the cubs aren't the KC Royals, they're a big market team, so stuff like that shouldn't matter. I highly doubt the Yankees would hold Montero back if they feel he's ready just save themselves one more year of eligibility.

 

Well the Yankees can afford $15m at every position so that's a different story. The Cubs should take these things into consideration. And as long as they aren't purposefully starting a worse player, it doesn't hurt them at all to be more patient.

[Sever82]

Some of you have to realize he's 19yrs old 6'1 and 160lbs. Keith Law if i remember correctly, in one of his chats said that many scouts expect Castro to develop power because he still hasn't filled out physically. They expect the guy to be 6'2 and about 190lbs when he matures at about age 21. I think his wrists are the most impressive, not saying he'll develop into him but the way he handles the bat reminds me a lot of Manny Ramirez. I think with time he'll be more patient and pick his pitches better, if he fills out like he's expected to, i think he'll have pretty good power.

 

As for the one more year of arbitration, to me it makes no sense to keep this kid in the minors one year longer just because it saves you some money. I mean the cubs aren't the KC Royals, they're a big market team, so stuff like that shouldn't matter. I highly doubt the Yankees would hold Montero back if they feel he's ready just save themselves one more year of eligibility.

 

Well the Yankees can afford $15m at every position so that's a different story. The Cubs should take these things into consideration. And as long as they aren't purposefully starting a worse player, it doesn't hurt them at all to be more patient.

 

True it also might just be that i hate theriot and wish the cubs traded him. I just can't stand all the singles he hits with no one on base. Not to mention the lack of range and noodle arm.

[jersey cubs fan]

True it also might just be that i hate theriot and wish the cubs traded him. I just can't stand all the singles he hits with no one on base. Not to mention the lack of range and noodle arm.

 

I hate Theriot too, partially irrationally. If they could trade him I'd love it. But as long as he's here, there's a significant likelihood that he will be at least as good as Castro right now. I would hate to see them go out and trade for a guy like Theriot, or sign somebody like that to a free agent contract when Castro is poised to take the position, but there's nothing wrong with status quo for now, and there are added benefits that should not be ignored.

[Sever82]

True it also might just be that i hate theriot and wish the cubs traded him. I just can't stand all the singles he hits with no one on base. Not to mention the lack of range and noodle arm.

 

I hate Theriot too, partially irrationally. If they could trade him I'd love it. But as long as he's here, there's a significant likelihood that he will be at least as good as Castro right now. I would hate to see them go out and trade for a guy like Theriot, or sign somebody like that to a free agent contract when Castro is poised to take the position, but there's nothing wrong with status quo for now, and there are added benefits that should not be ignored.

 

As a Chicagoan, i think my biggest worry is that the cubs treat theriot like the bulls treat Hinrich. What i mean by that is that they sign theriot to a overpaid long term deal eventhough he's a scrappy average player. And then they would justify it by saying he's a hard working player. I feel the cubs FO, Management and Some fans have built Theriot's ego to where he actually thinks he's a very good player and one of the best at his position.

[Guancous]

As for the one more year of arbitration, to me it makes no sense to keep this kid in the minors one year longer just because it saves you some money. I mean the cubs aren't the KC Royals, they're a big market team, so stuff like that shouldn't matter. I highly doubt the Yankees would hold Montero back if they feel he's ready just save themselves one more year of eligibility.

 

Example #1 why it matters: 5 years, $90 million remaining on Soriano's contract. Is he even going in the top 100 in fantasy drafts? It's not like defense provides his value.

 

My point isn't to rip on Soriano. It's that the Cubs don't have to hold Castro back a full year, just six weeks. They will also gain a full year of control. Marco Scutaro signed a 2 year, $12.5 million contract this offseason. Starlin Castro will (hopefully) be worth far more than that in 2016.

 

I'd scream for Castro if Neifi was our starting SS this year. Theriot, while not spectacular, is league average. There's no reason to burn Castro's development time to push off an average player. Now, if Baker and Fontenot are hitting .200 on June 1st, I'll reconsider.